Bluewave 707
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JetBlue To HNL?

Sat Aug 02, 2003 6:31 pm

What do you think about jetBlue flying to HNL with their A320s from any of their west coast bases in OAK, LGB, or SEA? Wouldn't it force the majors into a fare war (assuming the A320s get its ETOPS rating)?
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
behramjee
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sat Aug 02, 2003 8:18 pm

Jet Blue if permission will mint $$$ from serving HNL nonstop from SEA, LGB and OAK. Their leather seats + live tv are a big bonus + v v cheap fares compared to the other US majors.

What would be really wise for them is to use the same aircraft from JFK to SEA, LGB & OAK, make it stop there for 35-50 mins and then continue on to HNL. In this way they can grab a marketshare of the NYC NJ area market that flies to HNL as this schedule and routing would prove to be very convienient.

Does any airline fly nonstop from JFK or EWR, BOS, IAD to HNL? CO if it doesnt, should on its B 762 ER which has the range capability as does their 764s out of EWR.

Even UAL and AA can fly nonstop out of JFK and BOS using their B 763ERs.
 
acvitale
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sat Aug 02, 2003 8:48 pm

If they were ETOPs rated it would need at least a 90 min turn time to accomplish all the items prior to the ETOPs flight. Hence unlikely that an A320 would fly JFK-West Coast-HNL with a 35-50 min stop.

Additionally, The market to me would not seem to make sense for Jet Blue when other markets are more lucrative and existing markets need more service.

Finally, As there is a dead zone on DirecTv between JFK and SJU that affects Jet Blue so there is on the Western Coast as well. Enough said...

Don't look for B6 in HNL real soon.
 
capt078
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sat Aug 02, 2003 10:01 pm

i've heard about the directtv dead zone, although when my friends flew jetblue from jfk to sjn they did not experience it. if it does occur, flying over the pacific to hnl or another hawaiian location is probably the place in which it will happen.

i would not be so quick to dismiss jetblue in hnl. the hawaiian market is still a high-priced market , and with the exception of ata, no lower-cost carriers have broken in. as evidence that there is plenty of demand there, look at recent news: delta added a flight from atl, alaska announced that it would like to serve hawaii, northwest added service, ata added service.

i'm sure jetblue has plenty of cities on its list ahead of hnl, but it would not surprise me if they announced a flight there in the next year or two.
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sat Aug 02, 2003 10:08 pm

With all the money B6 has, why not just build a relay satellite between LGB and HNL.
Puhdiddle
 
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mats
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sat Aug 02, 2003 10:45 pm

I guess I'm skeptical because neither US Airways nor America West serve Honolulu. Both of them are A320 operators, but they've yet to show interest in ETOPS-equipping their fleets for Hawaiian service.

My understanding is that jetBlue wants to expand service within existing markets--increasing frequencies and connecting unlinked city pairs within its system.

Furthermore, the arrival of Embraer jets will probably keep jetBlue more interested in shorthaul markets.
 
dispatch
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sat Aug 02, 2003 11:09 pm

Maybe a little off-topic but:
Is there any A320 certified for ETOPS as of today??

Peter
 
capt078
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sat Aug 02, 2003 11:20 pm

again, i disagree. david neeleman said himself when they announced the order for the erj-190s that the new regional jets will allow the company to expand into smaller markets with the erj's, while allowing jetblue to use its a-320s on higher-demand longer markets. if anything, the erj's would aide jetblue if it is aiming at hnl.

also, to mention us airways or america west would be a mistake. the whole point with jetblue is that it is so vastly different from those and other carriers. using them as comparisons to speculate about future routes is not effective.

i think we should look at jetblue's success with its san juan operations. granted, puerto rico and hawaii are vastly different, but here we have a destination not routinely served by discount carriers, that is out of the way so to speak (in that sjn has primarily o & d traffic), and is primarily a vacation and not business market. hawaii, again very different, does have some similarities. if i were part of jetblue's management, i would keep an eye on sjn, and also on ata's operations in hawaii.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:41 am

and with the exception of ata, no lower-cost carriers have broken in.

Well, America West tried and failed in Hawaii (as well as Japan, for that matter)  Laugh out loud
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
luv2fly
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:56 am

Also A320's are not ETOPS rated! It is not going to happen anytime soon. They are more interested in add more flights to markets already served and then connecting the dots more with in there system.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
dispatch
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 1:01 am

ConcordeBoy,

The Japanese do better in 2003 than in 1941.

But I sure don't know about today's Hawaiian's
Check this out:

http://www.honoluluairport.com/ click FLIGHTINFOMATION  Laugh out loud

Peter
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 1:07 am

That'd almost be amusing were it not for your complete lack of comprehension for what I was saying re: HP to NGO  Insane  Laugh out loud
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 1:09 am

the "dead spot" was mentioned and i'm wondering if the area near SJU/HNL has DIRECTTV capability? Also, is there a way to get the system to work across the ocean?
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
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STT757
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 1:09 am

"Does any airline fly nonstop from JFK or EWR, BOS, IAD to HNL? CO if it doesnt, should on its B 762 ER which has the range capability as does their 764s out of EWR."

CO flies daily between EWR and HNL with a 767-400.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
b752fanatic
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 1:55 am

Do you guys think that B6 could start an international service to SDQ?

in the NYC area, there is a great market for SDQ and other Dominican Cities like STI.

Right now, from the NYC area,

CO, AA, BQ, Air Santo Domingo have very good loads on these flights to the Dominican Republic.
"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
 
dutchjet
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 2:19 am

I think that JetBlue, for now, will leave flying to Hawaii to other carriers; as mentioned, while the A320s could fly LGB-HNL (or to other Hawaiian airports), JetBlue's aircraft are not ETOPS and I do not imagine that JetBlue would "dedicate" 2 or 3 aircraft to a particular route, that is NOT part of their business plan. Also, there is a lot of competition in the California-Hawaii market, with Aloha (with 73Gs) and others opening smaller routes which give the passenger much more choice....there are now nonstop flights from regional airports in the LA area to Kona, Maui, etc, something unavailable a couple of years ago. And, isn't JetBlue limited to 22 flights per day out of the LGB mini-hub; I dont think that JetBlue wants to use those limited slots for high-competition Hawaiian services and at OAK, Aloha is already in the market with ATA covering the low-fare Hawaii service out of SFO.

 
Guest

RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 2:47 am

Another thing that will probably prevent us from flying to LGB to HNL.....

It's and expensive airport on which to operate. As a budget minded carrier, it is wise to save up some money FIRST, and then see if HNL is a good idea. We have other cities in mind I'm sure. (For example, ORD, BOS area, DFW... All the ones rumored here on Airliners.net!) Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see JetBlue to Hawaii, but that idea is probably 5-7 years down the road.
 
dispatch
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 2:58 am

ConcordeBoy,
I know that HP never made it to NGO successfully, I watched the ex-KLM aircraft leave AMS. But this tread is about JetBlue to HNL.
If you click the link and then Flight Info(r)mation, which was merely a sidestep, YOU will see what I mean.
On Aug 02, 2003, from 05:40 to midnight 12 Japanese aircraft landed at Honolulu airport. This means that more Japanese aircraft landed in Honolulu on Aug 02, 2003, then on Dec 07, 1941.

Well, America West tried and failed in Hawaii (as well as Japan, for that matter)

What I read here is that Japan failed in Hawaii, with no date mentioned, please correct me if I'm wrong  Smile


Peter
 
Bluewave 707
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:06 am

You guys are right about ATA being the only low-cost flying to HNL on a scheduled basis. But a portion of the seats are reserved for tour groups (Pleasant Hawaiian), so not much of their seats on the 753s are for the flying public. As for Aloha, their fares to SNA, OAK, and Burbank are not cheap.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
artsyman
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:09 am

I think some people make too much of a big deal about having 26 channels of directtv on a flight. We have direct tv, and have about 700 channels, and most of the time there is nothing to watch, so with 26 it is going to be even harder. I think it is good that they have it as opposed to nothing, but it is more gimmick than anything. That said, they are a good airline, and shouldn't need that as their major selling point
 
luv2fly
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:10 am

That is right a lot of seats go to tour operators for a contracted price.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
gigneil
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 4:00 am

Both DirecTV and Dish Network are available to residents on the ground in Hawaii... albeit a smaller package because one of the satellites isn't viewable. I'd assume jetBlue would be able to offer something.

Also A320's are not ETOPS rated!

jetBlue's might not be, but the A320 series is certainly capable.

N
 
Shamrock1Heavy
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 4:25 am

How exactly does a plane get ETOPS rated?
I know what ETOPS is, but I am not understanding how they get rated.
Thanks!

-D
when in hell, we'll do shots at the bar
 
SRD737NG
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 5:06 am

Guess what folks?? 4 days ago one of my fellow co-workers was flying across from Hawaii to Burbank when he heard JETBLUE talking on the freq. -- Everyone out there was asking what they were doing and the pilot responded......."Right now we're doing 3 flights a week to Maui, soon to be 5 out of Long Beach." --- unfortunately one of the major airlines that was crossing (I won't mention who it was, but i'll let you guess) made a smart remark to JetBlue regarding the fact that they are non-union.... and that was it....no more info from Jetblue. But, it's obvious they are going through either ETOPS certification process, or proving runs....Something is going on, and yes....It was surely JETBLUE.
 
UN_B732
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 5:15 am

Let's kick it up a notch (thank you chef emeril! For that wonderful quote)
What about B6 taking the 190s within Hawaii.
-UN
What now?
 
T prop
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 5:23 am

Guess what folks?? 4 days ago one of my fellow co-workers was flying across from Hawaii to Burbank when he heard JETBLUE talking on the freq. -- Everyone out there was asking what they were doing and the pilot responded......."Right now we're doing 3 flights a week to Maui, soon to be 5 out of Long Beach." ---

Proving runs? Has anyone seen them on the ground in Maui? If not then I'll have to raise the BS flag on this one.

T prop.
 
N628AU
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 7:02 am

Repeat after me...

HNL is not profitable. HNL is not profitable. HNL is not profitable.

The only point of serving it is so that major carrier customer can burn FF miles in large quantities.
 
luv2fly
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 7:20 am

My question as well anyone see them in Hawaii?
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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mats
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 7:45 am

Right on, N628AU. Honolulu is not high-yield market.

There's been banter here and on other boards about Southwest serving Honolulu. (After all, it is our most southwestern state.) But I'm sure it's minds of the accountants in Dallas and they've said no.

Santo Domingo, however, might just work for jetBlue. Flights to SDQ are often turns so jetBlue could have its crew and its plane back at JFK every night. Like San Juan, there is both VFR and holiday traffic to the Dominican Republic.

I've never flown jetBlue, but everyone I know who has tells me how great they are. Likewise, I adore Hawaii--half of my family lives there--but I don't think that we'll see jetBlue come to Honolulu any time soon.

Meanwhile, we'll keep our eyes peeled for jetBlue in places like St. Louis, Toronto, Raleigh, Columbus, and so on.
 
UN_B732
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 7:55 am

Yeah, didn't B6 say A320s for carribean! They have maps..and interesting presenation that i posted that has a mpa of where they wanna go.
-UN
What now?
 
WMUPilot
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 9:21 am

TZ seems to find flights to HNL to be profitable as we are increasing service on a regular basis. ATA will be flying EWR-HNL come winter (this does include one stop in SFO) ATA's flights to HNL are always full or otherwise pretty close to it. Very, very, very rarely will you see an ATA 753 going to HNL, OGG, LIH half empty.
JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
 
ripcordd
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N628AU

Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:29 am

Try again there have never been so many flights to Hawaii. Now why in the current airlines state losing millions and millions would they start more service to hawaii if they are losing money there?... And they only allow like 10% of their seats for FF's. I travel btwn mainland and Hawaii 3 to 4 times a year and have flown Aloha,Hawaiin,UA,AA and every flight I have taken has been full and I never got a ticket below $500 rt from the west cost. So Hawaii is making airlines money. Airlines are tweaking their routes and are realzing that they can make more on Hawaii routes vs other routes/
 
aa757first
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:57 am

The dead zone that everyone is talking about is in compliance with US laws. On a cruise, they told us that it’s illegal to broadcast US stations so far of the coast (20 miles, I think). JetBlue would have to show “international” programming.
 
ha763
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:04 pm

The only reason Hawaii flights tend to be unprofitable for US carriers other than HA and AQ is that they allow more seats to be used for frequent flier rewards. However, flights are still being added because the flights now are less unprofitable than other routes, some being profitable even while allowing the extra FF rewards. Plus there is still a lot of demand for flights to Hawaii even while the economy is down.

As for JetBlue, I don't see them coming here anytime soon. There has not been any news, sightings, or rumors of JetBlue in Hawaii. Plus, to be safe, they should get at least 180 min ETOPS certification.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:15 pm

". the hawaiian market is still a high-priced market." What? Hawaii is a very low yield market, and cheap. LGB to HNL, KIH or OGG are well within jetBlues business plan. It would be a stupid move in mu opinion as thay remain below the "radar" of UA and AA at the moment.

Somewhat like the rattler passing 50 feet away from my Rottweiller. She knows it's there but it's no threat. When it makes the mistake of passing between her and the house though, we have one swollen dog face and an eaten rattler. Herb was the smart rattler, will David be also?
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
thunder9
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:18 pm

>> JetBlue would have to show “international” programming.

Too cool! The pax on the overwater B6 flights would get to watch the likes of BBC and Al-Jazeera!  Smile

-J
"Keep thy airspeed up, less the earth come from below and smite thee." - William Kershner
 
Jeff G
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:48 pm

The dead zone that everyone is talking about is in compliance with US laws. On a cruise, they told us that it’s illegal to broadcast US stations so far of the coast (20 miles, I think). JetBlue would have to show “international” programming.

Many of JetBlue's NY to FL routes go a lot further over the water than 20 miles, and having DirecTV programming there is completely legal. And you don't lose the signal from NY to SJU until you're several hundred miles off the east coast. The "dead zone" is a technical limitation, not a regulatory one.
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:59 pm

do you get TV on approach to SJU?
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
Bluewave 707
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 1:41 pm

You know back in the mid-80s, there were a few airlines (Air Hawaii, Hawaii Express, and Pacific East to name a few) that flew low-cost, okay downright cheap flights out of HNL to LAX and SFO. As history records, they did not last very long. The infrastructure of the those 80s a/l's were weak, thought the concept was there. It was also the beginnings of airline deregulation in the US. However, I gave them credit for the fact that air fare in and out of Hawaii was (and still is) expensive, and they gave the majors a run for their money.

Which is not to say if jetBlue, will fail. It seems that their infrastructure is on solid ground. Satellite TV for me personally is not a major selling point. As long as an airline and their fleet can get across the Pacific safely, timely, and economically. I really don't care what kind of perks they got. Though an airline that's got an audio channel dedicated to cockpit comms (like UA), would win big points with me. That's in-flight entertainment.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
SRD737NG
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 5:21 pm

Hey T_Prop -- Call BS all you want, no matter. He heard what he heard, and that was Jetblue on the track westbound over the Pacific to OGG, according to the words out of the Jetblue pilots mouth. There is no reason to lie about it. What they are doing exactly, I've yet to find out. Could have always been some other pilot out there joking around for all I know. But, we'll all soon see.

It would not surprise me at all if Jetblue wanted a piece of Hawaii. Everyone else seems to want it...DAL, CO, ATA, AA, NWA, Aloha, Hawaiian, North American..all adding flights and/or capacity to the islands.
 
T prop
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RE: JetBlue To HNL?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 8:40 pm

Hey T_Prop -- Call BS all you want, no matter. He heard what he heard, and that was Jetblue on the track westbound over the Pacific to OGG, according to the words out of the Jetblue pilots mouth. There is no reason to lie about it. What they are doing exactly, I've yet to find out. Could have always been some other pilot out there joking around for all I know. But, we'll all soon see.

SRD737NG,

Your co worker may have heard this exchange on the freq, but it is possible that whoever was x-mitting may have been just trying to shake up the troops a little. Pilots like to have a laugh once in a while too.

B6 to OGG 3 times a week and no one has seen them on the ground? Sorry, but until there is a sighting the flag remains up.

T prop.

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