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Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:34 am

Which city in the US is the largest that does serve as a hub for an airline? Would it be BOS, MSY?

 
bmi330
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:37 am

New York? CO and EWR is New jersey and Jet Blue isn't a major so New York?
 
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yyz717
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:44 am

EWR arguably serves the NYC market, so I would say EWR is a NY hub for CO.

BOS is probably the largest. Also SAT has no hub.
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ramper@iah
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:45 am

Southwest has about 55 daily departures from New Orleans. Would that qualify it as a hub? It is the sole occupant of terminal B. Boston supports a small American Airlines hub. I think Kansas City is probably the largest city that's not a hub.
 
UAL747
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:46 am

LAX isn't really a hub for any airline. So I'd say LAX.

UAL747
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bmi330
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:53 am

Yyz717 yeah I though about that as well but technically New York Has no hub if you get what I mean.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:54 am

How about BWI, I know your going to say WN, tho according to them they operate no hubs!

Also FLL has tons of service tho not a hub for any one airline.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
USAIRWAYS321
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:58 am

So jetBlue doesn't count as a hub airline? New York/JFK definately has a jetBlue hub, and US Airways considers LGA sort of a hub, and I think Delta does too.

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luv2fly
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:02 pm

JetBlues flying to FLL is mostly point to point service. I pointed out JetBlue once before and FLL and was told that it is not a hub for them by another member.
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IMissPiedmont
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:02 pm

It is, as has been stated, Los Angeles.
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bmi330
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:06 pm

Is it not more of a focus city Delta and US Airways. Mentioned jet blue already sweetheart didn't you see that post at the top LOL. If you include no major airlines main hubs like ORD and ATL doesn't smaller regional oportators make every big city's airport a hub of sorts?
 
flybynight
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:08 pm

United counts LA as a mini-hub.
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USAIRWAYS321
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:08 pm

I think United considers LAX a hub....

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bmi330
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:09 pm

If you cant say LA because its the same argument as Jet Blue at JFK and long Beach so makes it NYC?
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:13 pm

UA is at LAX, what do they have, 3 concourses? I got this old 1999 paper timetable with 'LAX: United's newest hub", I dont think they have ceased hub operations here.

Justin
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:16 pm

AAAAAH! 2 of y'all beat me to the UA/LAX thing while i was searching for my timetable. Great minds think alike.  Laugh out loud
Anyway, could it be St. Louis soon?
Justin
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aa757first
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:19 pm

Hmm, I'm guessing that its not ABE?!? Seriously, how about SFO?
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:19 pm

OK. A hub is an airport that has banks of flights that arrive and depart to provide connections throughout the system. LAX has no such banks. Busy as all getup but not a hub.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
N670UW
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:22 pm

Yes folks, LAX is a hub, for UA.

From UA's website:

UAL Corporation is the holding company for United Airlines, the second largest air carrier in the world. With hubs in Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington, D.C., and key international gateways in Tokyo, London, Frankfurt, Miami and Toronto, United flies to 117 destinations in 26 countries. United's 84,000-plus employees worldwide bring people together safely, conveniently and efficiently more than 1,800 times a day. United's customers also enjoy access to more than 729 destinations around the world through Star Alliance, the leading global airline network.
 
flybynight
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:23 pm

United counts, O'Hare, Dulles, Miami (min-hub), Denver, San Francisco and LA (mini-hub) as hubs. This is according to their own literature.
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bmi330
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:24 pm

Told use its technically NYC because EWR is in New Jersey.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:28 pm

When JFK T8 is completed for AA, that sure looks like it would be hub material, doesnt it?

Justin
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:42 pm

Just thought of something....MCO?

Justin
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bmi330
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:52 pm

AA Don't have the flights the terminals not built and MCO is the land of themeparks and doesn't have that big of population anyways so NYC it is like a said from post 1. There is no larger City in the USA and it has no hub close story LOL.
 
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STT757
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:54 pm

"When JFK T8 is completed for AA, that sure looks like it would be hub material, doesnt it?"

Except for the fact that they have suspended construction (temporarily) and are going to scale back the project, so when it's done it's not going to have that many more gates than they had with T-8 and T-9.

Also AA has been reducing service at JFK, especially with Eagle.

They only serve Montreal, Boston and Washington with Eagle flights from JFK.

In the past they have flown to, Cleveland, Columbus, Manchester NH, Providence, Hartford, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington Dulles, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany, Buffalo, New Burgh etc.

All have been cancelled.

With AA's poor economic state and the growing B6 domination of domestic service at JFK AA will not "hub" JFK, rather make it a nice International Gateway with One World Partners moving in possibly including BA.
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:57 pm

I dont know man.... EWR is closer to mid town than JFK, and it is also run by the port autority, who runs JFK and LGA and other NYC area airports. CO's EWR hub is NYC to me.

Justin
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STT757
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 1:08 pm

Wilmington Delaware is the largest US City without a Commercial Airport, there is no commercial air service to anywhere in Delaware.
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FLAIRPORT
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 1:13 pm

DL's hubs (as per IMissPiedmont's explaination)
ATL
CVG
SLC
all no brainers

but here is another
JFK- intl. ops, and with SONG it has become a hub

"Mini"-Hubs
FLL-Song Mini-Hub
MCO-Song/DL ops around the country and Comair hub (Former DL hub)
DFW- ASA/Skywest hub (former DL Hub)
LAX- flights around the country

Other former DL hubs
MIA
PDX- far east gateway

LGA is not a hub as it doesn't service many different routes other than hub-spoke.

So, since LGA is in Queens County and is the closest to Manhattan and is in New york City, i think that Queens/Eastern Nassau/Western Kings/Manhattan/Southern Bronx/ Staten Island area is the largest in terms of population or density. (?)
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bmi330
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 1:17 pm

Is song not more point to point than transiting though ? I did forget all about song though like it seems most people did. Well done flairport still not a hub hub but is it still only jet blue standard not 100% sure on that song but.

You a rick flair fan or something with that name?
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 1:23 pm

Song is Delta, so it counts as a DL flight in my book,

also note that i did not put Song airports (except JFK which has other reasons for being a hub and could still be without Song) into the HUB, but Mini-hub catagorys
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bmi330
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 1:27 pm

Can you explain to me please flairport about jfk song etc thanx.
 
flyCMH
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 1:29 pm

Here are the 50 largest metro populations in the United States. Note that Newark is in the New York City metro population, and Long Beach is in Los Angeles', so their respective hubs should count. Also note that Southwest "hub" cities are those listed as the airline's top 10 cities in terms of daily departures:

1) New York--Newark--Bridgeport, NY--NJ--CT--PA CSA 21,705,458
- JetBlue hub (JFK), Continental Airlines hub (EWR)

2) Los Angeles--Long Beach--Riverside, CA CSA 17,044,188
- United Airlines hub (LAX) Southwest "hub" (LAX), JetBlue hub (LGB)

3) Chicago--Naperville--Michigan City, IL--IN--WI CSA 9,501,248
-United Airlines hub (ORD), American Airlines hub (ORD), ATA hub (MDW), Southwest "hub" (MDW)

4) Washington--Baltimore--Northern Virginia, DC--VA--MD--WV CSA 7,804,430
- United Airlines hub (IAD), USAirways hub (CA / KDCA), USA - Virginia">DCA), Southwest "hub" (WI / KBWI), USA - Maryland">BWI)

5) San Jose--San Francisco--Oakland, CA CSA 7,182,483
- United Airlines hub (SFO), Southwest "hub" (OAK)

6) Philadelphia--Camden--Wilmington, PA--NJ--DE--MD CSA 5,899,871
- USAirways hub

7) Boston--Worcester--Manchester, MA--NH CSA 5,808,987
- American Airlines hub

8) Dallas--Ft. Worth, TX CSA 5,676,171
- American Airlines hub (DFW), Southwest "hub" (DAL)

9) Detroit--Warren--Flint, MI CSA 5,409,167
- Northwest Airlines hub

10) Miami--Fort Lauderdale--Miami Beach, FL MSA 5,232,107
- American Airlines hub (MIA), Iberia hub (MIA), Spirit hub (FLL)

11) Houston--Baytown--Huntsville, TX CSA 5,086,741
- Continental Airlines hub (IAH), Southwest "hub" (HOU)

12) Atlanta--Sandy Springs--Gainesville, GA--AL CSA 4,844,726
- Delta Airlines hub, AirTran hub

13) Seattle--Tacoma--Olympia, WA CSA 3,705,706
- Alaska Airlines hub

14) Phoenix--Mesa--Scottsdale, AZ MSA 3,500,151
- America West hub, Southwest "hub"

15) Minneapolis--St. Paul, MN CSA 3,365,573
- Northwest Airlines hub, SunCountry hub

16) Cleveland--Akron--Elyria, OH CSA 2,950,614
- Continental Airlines hub

17) San Diego--Carlsbad--San Marcos, CA MSA 2,906,660
- Southwest "hub"

18) St. Louis--St. Charles--Farmington, MO--IL CSA 2,808,993
- American Airlines hub

19) Denver--Aurora--Boulder, CO CSA 2,559,776
- United Airlines hub, Frontier Airlines hub

20) Pittsburgh--New Castle, PA CSA 2,512,302
- USAirways hub

21) Tampa--St. Petersburg--Clearwater , FL MSA 2,490,295
- NO HUB

22) Cincinnati--Middletown--Wilmington, OH-KY-IN CSA 2,081,836
- Delta Airlines hub

23) Sacramento--Arden-Arcade--Truckee, CA--NV CSA 2,068,427
- NO HUB

24) Portland--Vancouver--Beaverton, OR--WA MSA 2,016,357
- Alaska Airlines hub

25) Charlotte--Gastonia--Salisbury, NC--SC 1,993,372
- USAirways hub

26) Kansas City--Overland Park, Kansas City, MO--KS 1,955,777
- Midwest Airlines hub

27) Columbus--Marion--Chillicothe, OH CSA 1,884,603
- NO HUB

28) Indianapolis--Anderson--Columbus, IN CSA 1,864,324
- Technically not a hub, though ATA has a sizeable operation in IND

29) Orlando--The Villages , FL CSA 1,809,709
- Does Delta still consider CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO a hub? Can one consider Pan Am III's and TransMeridian's SFB operations as hubs?

30) San Antonio, TX MSA 1,786,620
- NO HUB

31) Milwaukee--Racine--Waukesha, WI CSA 1,703,516
- Midwest Airlines hub

32) Providence--New Bedford--Fall River, RI-MA CSA 1,613,159
- NO HUB

33) Virginia Beach--Norfolk--Newport News, VA--NC MSA 1,612,929
- NO HUB

34) Las Vegas--Paradise--Pahrump, NV CSA 1,556,663
- America West hub, Southwest "hub"

35) Salt Lake City--Ogden--Clearfield, UT CSA 1,502,000
- Delta Airlines hub

36) Nashville--Murfreesboro, TN MSA 1,424,696
- Southwest Airlines "hub"

37) Raleigh--Durham--Cary, NC CSA 1,401,331
- Not considered an American Airlines hub, though connections can be made on AA through RDU.

38) New Orleans--Metairie--Bogalusa, LA CSA 1,359,136
NO HUB

39) Austin--Round Rock, TX MSA 1,349,291
NO HUB

40) Greensboro--Winston-Salem--High Point, NC CSA 1,316,115
NO HUB

41) Louisville--Elizabethtown--Scottsburg, KY--IN CSA 1,315,262
NO HUB

42) Grand Rapids--Wyoming--Holland, MI MSA 1,284,862
NO HUB

43) Hartford--West Hartford--Willimantic, CT CSA 1,279,440
NO HUB

44) Memphis, TN--MS--AR MSA 1,230,554
- Northwest Airlines hub

45) Oklahoma City--Shawnee, OK CSA 1,188,011
NO HUB

46) Jacksonville, FL MSA 1,177,602
NO HUB

47) Buffalo--Cheektowaga--Tonawanda, NY MSA 1,163,148
NO HUB

48) Birmingham--Hoover--Cullman, AL CSA 1,146,150
NO HUB

49) Rochester--Batavia--Seneca Falls NY CSA 1,137,557
NO HUB

50) Albany--Schenectady--Amsterdam NY CSA 1,128,651
- Commutair hub

So there you have it. The largest U.S. cities without hubs are:

1) Tampa
2) Sacramento
3) Columbus
4) San Antonio
5) Providence
 
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STT757
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 1:29 pm

"So, since LGA is in Queens County and is the closest to Manhattan and is in New york City, i think that Queens/Eastern Nassau/Western Kings/Manhattan/Southern Bronx/ Staten Island area is the largest in terms of population or density. (?"

What about Bergen, Hudson, Middlesex Counties in New Jersey. All are connected physically to NYC via bridge or Tunnels.
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rlwynn
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 4:19 pm

Two questions.

How is San Diego considered a hub for Southwest?

How is Long Beach Considered a hub for JetBlue?

That would mean that people would fly into these cities to connect on the same airline to other cities. I don't see that happening at either airport.
I can drive faster than you
 
flashmeister
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 4:32 pm

I'm not sure that Alaska considers PDX a hub... at least for AS. It's definitely a hub for Horizon.
 
ssides
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 5:21 pm

I'm sorry, but this question has too many variables to provide a definitive answer. First, you have to decide what constitutes a hub. Are AA's operations at BOS enough for a hub? Can you consider WN's operations from DAL, HOU, PHX or SAN a "hub?" What about regional carrier hubs?

Second, what do people mean by "city?" The city itself? Metro area? By pure city and pure hub, I think NYC would be it. By metro area and a liberal definition of "hub," I think SAN would probably be the winner.
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Sean-SAN-
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 6:13 pm

San Diego... Southwest doesn't count.
 
flyCMH
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Sun Aug 03, 2003 9:08 pm

I added Southwest because in many cases, the sheer number of daily flights operated warrants some sort of recognition. Like I said previously, I only counted the top 10 Southwest cities. Here they are, according to their website:

Southwest Airlines' Top Ten Airports: (as of April 6, 2003)

Cities / Daily Departures / Number of Gates / Nonstop Cities

Phoenix / 182 / 21 / 39
Las Vegas / 173 / 19 / 41
Baltimore/Washington / 154 / 21 / 34
Houston Hobby / 141 / 17 / 23
Chicago Midway / 132 / 15 / 30
Dallas (Love Field) / 130 / 14 / 13
Oakland / 122 / 13 / 18
Los Angeles (LAX) / 114 / 12 / 19
Nashville / 86 / 10 / 28
San Diego / 79 / 9 / 15
 
deltairlines
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Mon Aug 04, 2003 1:36 am

I wouldn't really consider BOS a hub for AA. The only real connecting traffic is from ISP, BGR, YYZ, and YQB (until its suspended). The rest is primarily O&D traffic. If you call BOS a hub for AA, then you pretty much have to call it the same for DL, who gets connecting traffic from YHZ, YUL, YFC, PWM, BTV, and BGR, and US, who gets connecting traffic from AUG, RKD, PQI, BHB, and other New England cities.

Jeff
 
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Mon Aug 04, 2003 1:54 am

I don't know what you all are talking about, DFW is still a Delta hub. They consider it a hub, it's just that they have reduced their mainline presence there. DL and DL Connection still have 275+ flights.

Jeremy
 
L.1011
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Mon Aug 04, 2003 1:57 am

In my opinion, if an airline has over 100 departures a day at an airport (including regionals, LCCs, shuttle, etc.), that city can be a hub. However, I reguard what the airlines say are their hubs as true as well.
So according to "The Big Six US Airlines" (2000, yeah, a bit out of date)
THe hubs are:
AMERICAN
DFW-784 Departures Daily
ORD-493 DD
MIA-268 DD
SJU-120 DD (prob. below 100 now)
(STL)
CONTINENTAL
IAH-522 DD
EWR-384 DD
CLE-279 DD
DELTA
ATL-902 DD
CVG- 508 DD
SLC- 253 DD
DFW-187 DD (May be below)
JFK-109 DD (Prob. now below)
NORTHWEST
MSP-525 DD
DTW-528 DD
MEM-276 DD
UNITED
ORD-544 DD
DEN-473 DD (minus 31 shuttle=442 DD)
SFO- 324 minus 132 shuttle= 192 DD
LAX- 382 minus 108 shuttle=274 DD
IAD- 354 DD
USAIRWAYS
PIT-495 DD (a lot less now)
CLT-473 DD
PHL-398 DD
LGA-190 DD
BOS-180 DD
DCA- 173 DD
BWI-152 DD
IAD-147 DD

 
LH423
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Mon Aug 04, 2003 2:19 am

DeltAirlines: I read recently that BOS ops for American (including the Eagle hub) make Boston the fifth largest city for American in terms of movements. I'd say that a hub does make! Also, unlike DL, AA also gets feed from BA (who have also connected from other oneworld airlines) whereas DL gets some AF pax and US gets...well, no one. US actually is the definition of O&D in Boston. Despite the connecting flights, not a large amount actually would fly an ALB-BOS-CLT flight. They'd probably fly ALB-PHL-CLT.

Also, AA flies to several international destinations (some seasonal) such as Port-au-Prince, Santo Domingo, Cancún, Bermuda, London, and Paris.

AA definitely considers Boston a hub for them.

LH423
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as739x
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Mon Aug 04, 2003 5:05 am

Flashmeister-How can you say Alaska doesnt consider PDX a hub? We do and always will. We operate (depending on season) 40-55 flights a day from there. Horizon has a monster operation and is technically there home. What you forget is QX is part of AS. Not like the other major and their regionals, we are owned by the same group, The Alaska Air Group. So PDX is a Alaska Hub.
ASSFO
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MAH4546
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Mon Aug 04, 2003 5:13 am

What makes a hub is simple: what an airline considers a hub.

Continental: GUM, IAH, EWR, CLE
American: MIA, SJU, ORD, DFW, STL
Delta: ATL, CVG, SLC, DFW
United: DEN, LAX, SFO, IAD, ORD
USAirways: CLT, PHL, PIT
Northwest: MEM, DTW, MSP
Southwest: None
airTran: ATL
ATA: MDW
jetBlue: JFK (they like to call LGB a "focus city")

I know, I missed many airline.

BOS is not an AA hub for the simple fact that AA does not consider it one. DCA is not a USAirways hub for the same reason. Boston is the largest US city without a hub.
a.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Mon Aug 04, 2003 5:19 am

Yeah, it is really hard to differentiate 'hubs' for WN with their point to point service. I say we stick with them and go for 'we have no hubs', simplifies things....otherwise what would they have, 10 hubs?!! I go for Boston and San Diego, i dont really consider AA a hub at BOS, i dont think they do either.

Justin
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STT757
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Mon Aug 04, 2003 6:16 am

"18) St. Louis--St. Charles--Farmington, MO--IL CSA 2,808,993
- American Airlines hub"

Depending on how far AA pulls down service there I think we have the answer to "Largest US City That Is Not A Hub", it looks like it's going to be St.Louis.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
SESGDL
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Mon Aug 04, 2003 6:44 am

L.1011,

DL and DL Connection now have 275+ daily flights. CVG has 540+ daily flights. Just to let you know. That info isn't currrent is it?

Jeremy
 
deltadude8
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RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Mon Aug 04, 2003 6:45 am

UMMM...I live in Overland Park Kansas which is part of the Kansas City METRO area...

Since when in god's name did Midwest Airlines call Kansas City a hub? I would say we really dont have a hub here...Closest thing we had was VANGUARD...so I would say Kansas City or Sacramento is the largest US city without a hub!

I would say that DL does have a mini hub in Tampa as well as SWA
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3973
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Mon Aug 04, 2003 7:26 am

Yeah, youre right deltadude, the YX operations at MCI are not enough to be a hubin the sense of what we are talking about here. MCI is definitley the 2nd Midwest city and a place YX has put much emphasis, past and current, about developing. They currently offer non-stops from kansas city to: MKE X5, SAT X2, LGA X2, DCA X2, DSM X1, SFO X2 (just did that myself), and in OCT SNA X2. 16 daily departures is hardly 'hub' material, but probably nice to have non the less. In the past they did have ATL, BOS and somewhere in florida? Hopefully some of those routes will be able to start up again.

Justin

PS. deltadude, I got off the plane in my MCI layover last week, and MCI sucks!!!, sorry but what is up with that security thing? Who designed it so you need to leave security to take a piss?
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2147
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

RE: Largest US City That Is Not A Hub

Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:46 am

Why shouldn't Midwest's operations in Kansas City be considered a hub? Yes, they may have 16 daily flights, but the airline uses its operations there to connect passengers to other flights, which is essentially what an airline hub is supposed to accomplish. MCI fits the definition perfectly, connecting passengers to several cities not available nonstop from MKE, such as SAT and SNA.

[Edited 2003-08-04 01:49:23]