aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

ProAir & ValuJet Travels

Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:15 am

Has anyone here flown ValuJet or Pro Air. What about safety? I think both were unsafe. What about service, food, on-time records, seats?


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A340Spotter
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:52 am

RE: ProAir & ValuJet Travels

Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:34 am

This will come off as biased, but Pro Air was not an unsafe airline. We had to bend over backwards for the feds because of the ValuJet Everglades incident so everything that was done from start-up to shutdown was highly scrutinized by them.
The reasons that were given for the shutdown in Sept. 2000 were eventually overturned by the national FAA and someday, the true reason for the shutdown will be made public, but a lot of us still work in the industry and can't comment on it.
As for the seats, our original 737-400s had 8 first class leather seats and the coach seats had a pitch of 33 inches if I remember correctly. We had quite a lot of good comments on that part of our operation.
On-time performance was a bit of a problem, I'd admit. I think we ran in the 65-70% area. A lot had to do with the routes we flew, DET-EWR/LGA and DET-BWI were always hampered in the afternoon by CLE ATC. Getting into the overhead stream of traffic generally cost us on average of 30 minutes and right there, you're out of the 14 minute DOT range.

Hope that answers your question a bit.

JSD

"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
Guest

RE: ProAir & ValuJet Travels

Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:37 am

There was nothing wrong with ProAir -- except they choose to compete with NW, who played it ugly and ProAir lost...

ValuJet lives on today as AirTran...
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: ProAir & ValuJet Travels

Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:43 am

ProAir was just a little too ambitious. They tried to do too much flying with so small of a fleet.
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3973
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: ProAir & ValuJet Travels

Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:44 am

Yeah, look at all the airlines that have tried to fly in to DTW and MSP, only to be driven out my NW, who in turn raises the fares back up. Southwest has a small DTW presence, and does not even fly to MSP. That says a lot. There are few things in the airline industry i would like to see more than someone like Jetblue or Frontier develop a presence in detroit or minneapolis.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Guest

RE: ProAir & ValuJet Travels

Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:49 am

DTW is #1 and MSP #3 in the country for "hub premiums."
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: ProAir & ValuJet Travels

Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:50 am

A340Spotter, I'm sure you know better than me, but I found this from Freep (Detroit Free Press)

For four days a Pro Air jet flew with a broken emergency handle.

In July a pilot collided with a service truck in Orlando.

On July 15 the FAA found that seat cushions in emergency exits were not approved.

Pro Air lubricated an engine 138 hours late.

There is more on freep.com.
 
m717
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:01 pm

RE: ProAir & ValuJet Travels

Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:58 am

These airlines no longer operate. Discussing the merits of these companies, or their alleged safety and service records accomplishes what, exactly? What is the significance that "In July (of what year?..,2000??...) a (ProAir) pilot collided with a service truck in Orlando"?
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: ProAir & ValuJet Travels

Mon Aug 04, 2003 11:03 am

No, I wanted to know how Pro Air and ValuJet's service levels were. Guess what? Absolutely nothing on this site accomplishes much. Color schemes, seat comfort, and food of an airline matters little.
 
m717
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:01 pm

RE: ProAir & ValuJet Travels

Mon Aug 04, 2003 11:08 am

Well, that may be, but citing 4 specific alleged safety issues with ProAir has very little to do with their service level.

Stick around this forum for a while, and you'd be amazed at just how much color schemes, seat comfort, and airline food (and even the most insignificant minutiae you could possibly dream up) matters to some people on this board.  Big thumbs up
 
WMUPilot
Posts: 1428
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:48 am

RE: ProAir & ValuJet Travels

Mon Aug 04, 2003 2:41 pm

A little known fact....ATA was in talks with Valujet to buy them out at the time of the Everglades accident and the "scandel" that followed forced ATA to rethink and pull out of talks.

Now where do you think Airtran and ATA would be today had that accident not happened?
JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
 
A340Spotter
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:52 am

RE: ProAir & ValuJet Travels

Mon Aug 04, 2003 3:46 pm

Aa757first, et al,

To answer a bit of your notes:

--For four days a Pro Air jet flew with a broken emergency handle.

Seem to remember this was the little plastic handle that a flight attendant uses for leverage, not the swing bar on a 737 emergency door. Believe this was struck off (as were 58 of the 59 allegations that the Feds shut us down over) as it was a CDL item, not an MEL.

--In July a pilot collided with a service truck in Orlando.

Remembered this one as it was on my last day of work! Chief pilot at the controls, Fed in the jumpseat, and the collision was with an ATA can loader. Reason for the collision, no wing walkers.

On July 15 the FAA found that seat cushions in emergency exits were not approved.

--If I remember correctly, plane in question had flown in service from it's delivery from Boeing, where it was approved and certified, until that day where the folks in charge decided that the cushions were all of the sudden unapproved.

Look, in 3.5 years of flying, we operated 5 planes total. After returning N360PR, we obtained two ex Air Europa 737-300s as the lease rates were basically the same as the new 737-300 we returned. One airplane took a long time to get certified whereas the other one never was due to the seat configuration and the inability to come up with nearly a million dollars to have an STC to get it properly configured (it was something about the seat flooring from what we were told). A week after giving that plane back to the lessor, it's in service with Frontier. If you're not dealt a fair hand to play with, you can't make it in the this industry. Period.

JSD
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"