DeltaBoy777
Topic Author
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2001 4:22 pm

Hub And Spoke Vs. Southwest Style

Mon Aug 04, 2003 2:23 pm

With all the airlines seeing meager profits and a downturn in revenue, do you think they should try a different prospective?? Southwest, for example, does not utilize a "hub and spoke" route system, and have turned a profit every year, year after year. I understand the major airlines utilize hubs to service certain International routes, etc., but what about the Domestic traveller?? They have already voiced their opinions....MORE Frequencies...LESS Money...HASSLE FREE reservations and check-in. By utilizing a more diverse route system of 10 or more cities to offset 2 or 3 base cities could promise a greater profit. For example, Southwest flys a DAL-ELP then a ELP-SAN, then a SAN-ABQ and so on with no distinct hub city. This would offer customers more convience and would be less of a strain on employees at hub cities. This is my opinion. Hub and spoke routes were very effective pre 9-11, but now I think it is time or a change.

~DeltaBoy777~
Thanks and Gig Em!
 
WMUPilot
Posts: 1428
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:48 am

RE: Hub And Spoke Vs. Southwest Style

Mon Aug 04, 2003 2:32 pm

ATA seems to run a pretty well hub and spoke system in MDW. I'll admit though that we are starting to "connect the dots" with our larger cities like Southwest. Like the addition of EWR-SFO and PIE-LAX and such. I think for some people they like being able to get to their destination with only making one stop unlike in the example you gave if a passenger wanted to get on that Southwest flight to ABQ but had to make stops in ELP and SAN. Plus a hub-and-spoke allows some smaller markets to be serviced.
JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
 
WNfan
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 4:27 am

RE: Hub And Spoke Vs. Southwest Style

Mon Aug 04, 2003 2:33 pm

In addition to hub-and-spoke, I think just keeping their planes in the air more hours of the day is a big part of their success. Turning around a plane in 30 minutes is, in my opinion, is what does the trick for them.

jetBlue also is making a profit, and since they have red-eye flights, their aircraft in the air even longer than those of WN. I think I read here that the average legacy hub-and-spoke carrier's planes fly 9 hours per day, WN 11, and B6 13, something like that. If anyone has more accurate figures, please post them.
 
DeltaBoy777
Topic Author
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2001 4:22 pm

RE: Hub And Spoke Vs. Southwest Style

Tue Aug 05, 2003 4:57 am

The example of trying to get to get ABQ from DAL was purely an example, WN does fly flights into ABQ with just one stop. I was just trying to make a point that passengers would have more choices if it weren't a hub spoke situation. Most times Southwest flys from small town point A to small town point B without a stop, whereas the major carriers all pretty much force you to make a stop or two. Purely trivial, but important issues.
Thanks and Gig Em!
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Hub And Spoke Vs. Southwest Style

Tue Aug 05, 2003 5:03 am



It's strange though that in Europe, Ryanair is still using it's 4 or 5 hubs strategy and stays very succesful. As stated above I think as well that Ryanair's 25 turnaround time does the trick.

Bastiaan
 
WMUPilot
Posts: 1428
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:48 am

RE: Hub And Spoke Vs. Southwest Style

Tue Aug 05, 2003 5:14 am

In my opinion it's not which system you use, hub and spoke or point to point, but how well you utilize you aircraft. If you use you aircraft as much as possible and spend as little time on the ground as possible then either system can be used with great effectiveness.
JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Hub And Spoke Vs. Southwest Style

Tue Aug 05, 2003 5:20 am



But why then, as stated in an other thread, do aircraft sit the whole day at JNB/CPT etc etc?
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Hub And Spoke Vs. Southwest Style

Tue Aug 05, 2003 5:48 am

Because yields on daytime flights to SA are not very good in comparison to night flights.
 
WMUPilot
Posts: 1428
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:48 am

RE: Hub And Spoke Vs. Southwest Style

Tue Aug 05, 2003 5:59 am

are you guys posting in the right thread?
JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
 
User avatar
airzim
Posts: 1214
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Hub And Spoke Vs. Southwest Style

Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:59 am

The hub system is the most efficient use of available resources and allows them to serve more cities with greater frequency then would be possible otherwise.

If the number of passengers from Omaha to LA everyday is 40 people max, it really doesn't justify having anymore than one flight a day if at all. However, by sending them to ORD or DFW or STL, and since they're are 20 Omaha pax that want to go to New York, 40 that want to go to MIA, 80 that want to go to Cancun etc instead of having flights that go to all of those place half filled with one flight a day, the majors can have several frequencies giving more flexibility to the travelers and fill each departure to the hub city with many connecting passengers. If hubs were not employed the fares generally would be higher in smaller city pairs to compensate for lower demand with less flexibility and options. (Look during Regulation time).

Although WN doesn't have "hubs" they effectively run many little hubs. They certainly don't market connections or people wanting to fly from FLL to LAX, but if pax are willing to put up with many stops, no meals, and a really long day let them do it. How many O&D pax are there a day between New Orleans and Birmingham, Al. I would guess not many but WN still flies something like 9 flights a day. I bet if you looked at the traffic pax would be connecting to FLL, MCO, HOU, BWI etc.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Hub And Spoke Vs. Southwest Style

Tue Aug 05, 2003 7:18 am

How many O&D pax are there a day between New Orleans and Birmingham, Al. I would guess not many but WN still flies something like 9 flights a day. I bet if you looked at the traffic pax would be connecting to FLL, MCO, HOU, BWI etc.

321 daily passengers O&D between MSY and BHM, so, yes there is obviously a lot of connecting traffic.

However, what Southwest also does is create a market. Before the advent of Southwest, there was likely a minimal market between TPA and ABQ. Now there are 131 daily O&D passengers.
a.
 
User avatar
airzim
Posts: 1214
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Hub And Spoke Vs. Southwest Style

Tue Aug 05, 2003 7:22 am

MAH4546,

Thanks for the stats. I am generally too lazy to look that stuff up.