DTWINTLFLYER
Posts: 293
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:24 pm

Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Fri Aug 08, 2003 9:17 pm

"We're going for a single aircraft type and at this stage it comes down to a straight choice between the Boeing 737-800 and the Airbus A-320," Dan Loughrey, corporate affairs director at Aer Lingus, told Reuters

Interesting.....be nice to see A320
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Fri Aug 08, 2003 9:23 pm

Already got A320's  Smile :

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Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
707CMF
Posts: 4698
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2002 5:39 pm

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Fri Aug 08, 2003 9:26 pm

Yes, but they only got 4, I think (EI-CVA/B/C/D). (see-plugging threads)

Hey, maybe we'll have EI-CMF, after all !

Antoine
 
CX747
Posts: 5566
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Fri Aug 08, 2003 9:37 pm

The order is going to come down to the 737-800 and A320-200 families. Aer Lingeus is looking to replace all of their current narrowbody fleet which includes 737s, A320s and other assorted types. I would assume that the A320 has the lead in this order. Does anyone have any further information?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Rick767
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RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Fri Aug 08, 2003 9:55 pm

With the A330 as the longhaul type, a standardised Airbus shorthaul fleet is an extremely sensible option.

Then they can have pilots CCQd across types etc... huge crew flexibility and training savings.

And with the minibus already in the fleet, I would be very surprised to see a Boeing order here.
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
capt078
Posts: 415
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RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:01 pm

with the commonality between big and baby buses, i would agree that the a-320 might have a slight lead. and certainly if they chose the narrow-body airbuses, it would make sense for them to keep the four they have.

however, it is certainly possible they will chose the 737-800. economics over the a-320, especially if they go with winglets, might be an enticing factor. also, given they only have 4 a320s, it is feasible that boeing might make a deal to buy the mini-buses from them. that is not unheard of in this industry.
 
CX747
Posts: 5566
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:38 pm

How about this deal. 737-800s for their short haul fleet, keep the A330-200/300s and then when the 7E7s come out pick up those while trading in the A330s?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
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RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:40 pm

CX747, you drrrrrrrrrrrrrreeaaaaam !!!
EI is European so the high political pressures will make them buy Airbus (I hope)  Big thumbs up
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
CX747
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RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:43 pm

I hope that politics doesn't play a part in their decision. That being said, two can play that game. If Aer Lingeus goes with the buses then there is no reason for more A330s. Sorry all gates in the U.S.A. are closed. EI can keep their current routes but that is it.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
teahan
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RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:48 pm

CX747,

Considering the current management, I very much doubt the order will be political. As for your "gates in the U.S.A. closed" comment, well it isn't particularly fair that currently US airlines are free to fly to Ireland from any US city while Aer Lingus only has access to 5 gateways. Gates in Ireland can also close, quicker than you might think.  Big grin

Anyway, extra A330s could be used for the much talked about new route to South Africa or perhaps even Asia.

Jeremiah

[Edited 2003-08-08 15:49:52]
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:57 pm

EI 345's or 346's...now THAT would make 707cmf leave his lowly single-engine prop airfields and move to the Emerald Isle  Laugh out loud
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
bigphilnyc
Posts: 3874
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 10:43 pm

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:58 pm

CX747's idea would work well if only the A330s were just a little older and needed replacing within the next few years, which I dont think they do.

I dont know what routes they plan to fly with these new aircraft, but I'm sure would think that they would be giving them more distance than most American carriers, so this might be a great oppostunity for them to buy 737s with winglets and save some cash on longer hauls.

Again, this is assuming that these will still for for Aer Lingus to fly routes to Europe and such. Again, I dont know much about what routes they fly.

But if saving moeny by means of total fleet commonality is your goal, then the A320 is good since that is the kind of their biggest planes, and also I believe what they have the most of already.

This could get interesting.  Smile

-Phil
Phil Derner Jr.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
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RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:02 pm

Please Ireland place restrictions on US carriers as well, you must fly to both SNN and DUB either both or none at all. So neither party is exempt when it comes to silliness.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:09 pm

It's all guesswork at this stage, but where Airbus has another edge is that they can place orders for A320's and have the option to upgrade them to A321's or downgrade them to A319's/A318's depending on where the market is going.
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
CX747
Posts: 5566
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:25 pm

If one will look closely at my post, I said that I hoped politics would not come into play. Your right closing down the U.S. gates is ridiculous, JUST as ridiculous as EI ordering Airbus because they are part of the EU. As for closing down Ireland's gates, I tend to think that Aer Lingeus would hurt more than say Delta etc. ANYWAY..

I find the comment that EI is looking to replace ALL of their narrowbody aircraft interesting. If you already operate A32Xs, why would this even be a question? Their 737 fleet is older etc. Does anyone remember a few months ago how someone on this forum was saying that EI would announce a 737NG order?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
bigphilnyc
Posts: 3874
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RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:30 pm

Great point about the age of their current 737 fleet. Very relevant.

As much as I hate Airbus, I'd choose the A320 in this case.

-Phil
Phil Derner Jr.
 
teahan
Posts: 4989
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:37 pm

I don't see the need for winglets since stage lenghts are relatively short. Longest seems to be Malaga (2:30) though the significantly longer Tenerife is starting from the winter.

Today's FT had a fairly interesting article. Key points:
- Discussion by the EI board in September, first deliveries in 2004.
- As mentioned in the past, straight A320 vs B737-800 contest.
- If it opts for Boeing, it would make a 27 plane firm order. Airbus: 17 plane
firm order (keeping 4 A320 and 6 A321).
- 10 options in both cases.
- 6-8 routes to be launched next summer.

Luv2fly,

True but that restriction applies to both Irish and American carriers.

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
CX747
Posts: 5566
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:00 am

EI's 737 Fleet:

12 Aircraft
Deliverd between 1989 and 1992

EI's A32X Fleet:

10 Aircraft A320/321
Delivered between 1998-2001

This well definately be an order worth watching although I think the A320 family will be the winner. Again though, could the 7E7 be in the cards?????
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
teahan
Posts: 4989
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:07 am

CX747,

The upcomming order will only be a narrowbody one. As for the 7E7, I guess it is a little early (first oders expected mid to end 2004) though there is no doubt the aircraft would be quite ideal for Aer Lingus in the longer term.

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:08 am

I'd rather see EI take a Boeing order because I am sick of all this European Union clique stuff. But... it makes A LOT more sense for EI to take aircraft from the A320 family than it would to go to a totally new type with 737NGs.

I guess whoever offers them the best deal.
 
by188b
Posts: 549
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 10:46 am

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:09 am

As Aer lingus are standardising their fleet that means getting rid of their Bae146's.

No more Dublin -London City as the airbus and boeings cant land there. As the route is both popular and profitable British Airways may take over this route as their new 146 operations to GLA/CDG/FRA are performing well
next flights : BD LHR-TXL J, FR SXF-STN Y, SN BRU-LHR Y, MA LHR-BUD Y, BA BUD-LHR J, BA LCY-SNN-JFK J, BA JFK-LHR J, BA
 
teahan
Posts: 4989
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:12 am

BY188B,

And some UK provincial routes will likely go the same way.

As for LCY, CityJet (which once operated DUB-LCY) and Aer Arann have also been mentioned.

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
by188b
Posts: 549
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 10:46 am

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:15 am

hope its not Cityjet, i flew with then when they operated the GLA-LCY route on behalf of KLM uk and they were pretty poor.....
next flights : BD LHR-TXL J, FR SXF-STN Y, SN BRU-LHR Y, MA LHR-BUD Y, BA BUD-LHR J, BA LCY-SNN-JFK J, BA JFK-LHR J, BA
 
N79969
Posts: 6605
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:43 am

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:24 am

I don't think landing rights should be tied to airplane purchases in any way or form. I just hope EI is not going to pull an Iberia and game Boeing to squeeze a better price out of Airbus.
 
CX747
Posts: 5566
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:52 am

The majority of EI's A330s were delivered in 1994. A few more were delivered in the late 90s early 00s. If Boeing is smart, they will tie in launch customer status on the 7E7 with a 737-800 deal. This would be a much needed win for Boeing in Europe and would actually work to both parties benefit.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7000
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:57 am

DUB LCY will go to BA, who have opened a ARJ base there, currently serving CDG, FRA and GLA.

DUB LCY is not a profitable route for EI
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
by188b
Posts: 549
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 10:46 am

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Sat Aug 09, 2003 1:08 am

I think this would be great for BA. As LCY is popular with business travellers and the airport is close to the City and Canary Wharf, BA has a real chance of making this into a mini Business Hub.
next flights : BD LHR-TXL J, FR SXF-STN Y, SN BRU-LHR Y, MA LHR-BUD Y, BA BUD-LHR J, BA LCY-SNN-JFK J, BA JFK-LHR J, BA
 
styles
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 4:04 am

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Sat Aug 09, 2003 1:24 am

If Aer Lingus go with Boeing for the B738s, perhaps a few phone calls will be made to DC to permit a short term solution to EI's lack of additional gateways in the US. With jobs on the line in Seattle, I am sure the politicians would be amenable to any positive news and could see to it that maybe SFO or MIA could be added to the EI portfolio. Or, perhaps not.
 
transswede
Posts: 969
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 9:30 am

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Sat Aug 09, 2003 1:27 am

The 7E7 is still a "paper" aircraft - in other words, not much of a marketing leverage for anything unless some detailed and realistic specifications are forthcoming.
 
N79969
Posts: 6605
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:43 am

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Sat Aug 09, 2003 1:43 am

If Ireland wanted Open-Skies with the US on an interim basis (until the EU gets its continent wide proposal together), it would probably get one. I do not see the US holding out on this one. Is Ireland insisting on something that prevents this from happening? The Shannon stop?
 
kaitak
Posts: 8935
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Sat Aug 09, 2003 1:53 am

My personal view, having looked at this from both sides is that an Airbus order is most likely - if for no other reason than that 17 A320s must be cheaper than 27 737s!

That said, the US issue weighs heavily on my mind. I am very anxious to see EI increase its long haul routes and also, aware that the 333s can't go on forever. This is a wonderful aircraft, don't get me wrong, but it was ordered when circumstances were very different. More 332s will be needed, but this is not inconsistent with a Boeing widebody order.

Don't forget that although both manufacturers are now focused on the s/h order, they are aware of Aer Lingus's US plans and EI is also aware of the likelihood that the EU/US negotiations may not be concluded for another 2-3 years. So where does that leave them? At the mercy of the US authorities. Anyone who thinks politics won't play a role here is deluding himself.

And don't think that if EI decides to go Boeing, the Irish govt will lift a finger to help Airbus. The government is just as anxious as EI to open new routes and develop new tourism revenue. Furthermore, Boeing will be aware of EI's plans and will be able to tailor a fleet plan to help them along. The 7E7 will make an excellent 332 replacement when the time comes and don't forget that Boeing has said that the 7E7 launch orders won't necessarily come from the US or Japan.

So, to contradict what I said above! Yes, 17 320s will be cheaper than 27 737s, BUT you have to look at the long term requirement!
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
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RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:27 am


Hi!

Did Aer Lingus ever considered buying Boeing?
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
aer lingus
Posts: 367
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 6:40 pm

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:34 am

As far as I know Since Aer Lingus has painted some of their Boeing 737-548's and 737-448's. I knew the aircrafts would retire shortly. Because the 747-100 (EI-ASJ) that Aer Lingus had received a new paint scheme just before it retired. So Boeing has the biggest chance at the moment. While a new Irish airline (Fresh Aer) will commence flights on the 1st of October with 4 757's in its fleet. Aer Lingus needs to think fast now. While at the moment there is Skynet with as far as I know with 1 Boeing 738 (EI-CZK) which flies to certain European Countries including some Aer Lingus routes.
While at the moment I don't think that Aer Lingus is going to get rid of its BAe 146-300s as some airports needs them. Aer Arann has taken up Aer Lingus Dublin-Galway route after Aer Lingus got rid of the fokker 50's.
Split Scimitar or Sharklets?
 
N79969
Posts: 6605
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:43 am

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:39 am

Kaitak,

I disagree on the extent that politics play a role here at least with regards to the US. It is not the US is unwilling to sign Open-Skies with Ireland rather it is the EU and the courts that have struck these bilateral agreements down.

Ireland cannot liberalize its air-services agreement with the US even if it really wanted to do so. The predicament of EI ambitions does not lie at the mercy of US policymakers rather they are at the mercy of Brussels.

If there is any political pressure to buy from a certain manufacturer, that pressure will be exerted from Brussels to buy Airbus. The US has no leverage here. Further the US has never conditioned any air service access on choice of manufacturer. US carriers vigorously fight off such bad laws when they arise domestically on occasion.

I do agree that the 320 makes more sense since they already have them in service and would have to add fewer airplanes.
 
cwapilot
Posts: 1085
Joined: Mon May 01, 2000 7:10 am

RE: Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft

Sat Aug 09, 2003 5:21 am

"...but where Airbus has another edge is that they can place orders for A320's and have the option to upgrade them to A321's or downgrade them to A319's/A318's depending on where the market is going."

Ummm, they could just as easily downgrade to the 737-700 or upgrade to the 737-900.... It is not like nobody has ever converted between 737 types on an order.

Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!

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