Ikarus
Topic Author
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Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:34 am

Hi

Just noticed on the BBC web page that an Air France pilot was arrested in New York for making a joke about having a bomb in his shoe while passing through security. Ridiculously enough, he is to appear in front of a judge and may face up to 11 years in prison. For making a joke.

Personally, I think this is ludicrous. Verbal jokes, not matter how inappropriate, should not be an offense. Besides, one gets the vague impression that his being French might have played a factor....

Regards

Ikarus
 
N766UA
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:40 am

Actually there are signs at the airport informing passengers not to make such jokes. It's very common knowledge that you can't say things like that in the US. If anything the moron should be fired.
This Website Censors Me
 
vafi88
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:42 am

And this is proof that everyone in the states are uptight. Comon man, it's a freakin joke!
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
Ikarus
Topic Author
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:43 am

N766UA: Fired, sure, why not. But arrested and threatened with 11 years of imprisonment? No.
 
FLYING MACHINE
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:50 am

I agree with Ikarus!
 
N766UA
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:52 am

I agree he should not be imprisoned, but everyone know's you can't say that. That's why I say suspend or fire the guy. Can't have that kind of incompetance flying an airliner around.
This Website Censors Me
 
jhooper
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:54 am

From the articleThe airline said the pilot had been arrested following "misinterpreted remarks".

I've learned to just keep my mouth shut when at the airport, especially around security officers. They really look for ways to screw you; it's part of their power trip.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
AngelAirways
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:58 am


i cant believe this! talk about the civil liberties and freedom of speech...

some people have no sense of humour.. and now the 'security' measures in the US are making life more and more like that in North Korea... watch what you say or else...

absolutely ridiculous and unacceptable.. i mean ARREST?!!
they should just caution him.. not fire, let alone arrest him. hope he gets out of this... poor fellow. a victim of american hatred of the french and of public paranoia.
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:10 am

A pilot should know better, there have been signs in Airports all over the world for years, that you cannot make jokes about bombs, and that all jokes will be taken seriously. People were arrested for this long before Sept 11.

Freedom of speech is not an issue. Along the same lines of yelling 'Fire' in a crowded theatre.

Several Passangers and Pilots have been arrested for this, and it has been discussed on this very forum, for the same types of jokes, so him being French should have nothing to do with it, and will bet did not.

vafi88, next time you go through security make a joke about a bomb and see what happens, then come back and talk to us- try it overseas also, and give us a full report.


Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Lt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:17 am

First of all, i kind of have a problem with the shoe thing in general. I personally have made comments about it at security, saying things like 'look what one moron makes us all go through' etc. etc. The shoe removal is one of the lengthier parts of the security screening, and has drastically increased lines all over the country. We need to ask ourselves, isnt there a better way to do this? There could be an x-ray type machine at the bottom of the metal detector, or explosive detecting device to stop over or SOMETHING. I dont know what other people think, but i think this particular shoe matter is being handled poorly, and is too far up on the priority list at the moment.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
flymia
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:19 am

The guy should lose his job and maybe his ATP but not have jail time just an fine of lets say 10,000USD. I dont care how stupid it sounds but it is an law in the us and the PILOT should have know.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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STT757
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:25 am

To say this is some sort of Anti-French act is total bullshit, you cannot say such a thing without being expected to face consecuences.

Lots of "stupid" folks have made such comments and been arrested, no one's been sentenced to prison. But making these idiots take a perp walk , and sitting in a cell for a couple hours while they are arraigned is worthy punishment.

If this guy gets 11 years, then that's something to complain about.

Most likely this guy is going to get a fine and probabtion, which does not mean much since he's not a US citizien.

But to say such a thing is beyond comprehension, you cannot yell "fire" and not expect consecuences if your lying.

Richard Reed the "shoe bomber" was trying to blow up a flight from Paris to the US, I would hope anyone making lite of that in front of security screeners at an Airport would be punished.

Saying "I have a bomb in my shoe" is no different than saying "im going to kill you", you cannot say "Im going to kill you/someone". That's a terroristic threat, which is a crime.

Free speech does not cover threatening people's lives, threatening (even in jest) people's lives is a crime.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
cmckeithen
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:29 am

I would give him a hefty fine and some jail time. He also should be fired. Yes, we may be uptight.....but we are one of the safest countries in the world. I am very happy that we have a zero tolerance policy about jokes pertaining to security. Its no joking matter.

So to those who think we are uptight, think what happened back on that September morning and then you will understand why we do the things we do in the USA and around the world.
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:31 am

we don't know if he said:
"...I have a bomb in my shoe" or "I have a bomb in my shoe"

If he said "It's not like i have a bomb in my shoe" then this is taken way out of proportion.
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
cmckeithen
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:34 am

No its not. You should not mention anything about a "bomb" when going through security. Common sense goes a long way.
 
backfire
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:34 am

I just find it utterly astonishing that people think they can make jokes at airline security checkpoints.

When are people going to learn? Security isn't a goddamn joke - treat it like one, and you'll pay the price one day.

The job of airline security is difficult enough without some @rsehole trying to do the unfunny "bomb in my bag" routine. There needs to be a tough deterrent to stop other idiots like him.

And those of you who think he was only having a laugh - I hope you'll find it just as funny if the personnel on your next flight treat the whole matter of security as a joke.
 
AA777MIA
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:38 am


"And this is proof that everyone in the states are uptight. Comon man, it's a freakin joke "

How soon we forget about Sept 11, and those who were killed. Imagine if the pilot was not joking? Wasn't it Egypt Air that the copilot killed everyone onboard?
 
cmckeithen
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:39 am

Well said backfire. When will they learn.
 
funflyer
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:41 am

You know i believe that it is great he was stopped.
What if he really had a bomb?
If we did not stop him it would be our fault.
People that think it is okay to joke about anything like that at a SECURITY CHECK POINT should think about it.
What if he had a bomb and was the pilot of your flight?
Who cares about status?
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:43 am

If he really had a bomb, he wouldnt joke about it at a security checkpoint! But it was a stupid thing to say, but hopefully will be dealt with intelligently. We also dont know the exact words stated, but 'bomb' in any context there is not very intelligent.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
funflyer
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:45 am

How do you know what he would do? Jpete.

No one knows what crazy people mean and dont mean.
Who cares about status?
 
artsyman
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:46 am

And this is proof that everyone in the states are uptight. Comon man, it's a freakin joke!
***************

Same rules apply in the UK, same rules apply in Canada, it isn't just the US. People, you have to remember that with 9.11, lots of things were missed, and if that guy had blown up his plane, and it was found out that earlier in the day, he told security that he was going to do it, and they just laughed it off, there would be trouble. Lastly, the flying public, or people in the security lines around him do not get a huge confidence boost when people do things like this.

Why is it that when an idiot does something like this, you guys totally ignore his accountability, and just blame the US ?
 
Ikarus
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:48 am

You know i believe that it is great he was stopped.
What if he really had a bomb?
If we did not stop him it would be our fault.


No one disagrees that it was right to stop him and search him if he was stupid enough to make an unfunny joke.

What I (and others) disagree with is arresting him and threatening him with jail - what I disagree with is that there is a law in the US that potentially punishes such jokes with 11 years of jail....

There's a difference between yelling "fire" and causing a stampede and danger for people, and making a stupid joke. One is potentially lethal, the other merely tasteless, a cavalier's delict if any at all.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:48 am

i did not say that he shouldnt have been apprehended for this, i just meant that people here were talking about it here as a formidable threat when they dont even know what he said.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
funflyer
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:50 am

I completly agree with Artsyman





To respond to Ikarus:

It is right to throw him in jail because if we don't more people with think it is okay to do stupid things.
Who cares about status?
 
Ikarus
Topic Author
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:53 am

It is right to throw him in jail because if we don't more people with think it is okay to do stupid things.

Last time I checked there was no law against stupidity in any nation, or about 90% of the population would be behind bars  Laugh out loud
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:54 am

That is what i was thinking, people do stupid things, a lot.........
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
teva
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:59 am

As some people said earlier, we don't know exactly what was said.
BBC reports misinterpreted words.
English is not the native language of French people (and I hope this will never happen)
As a result, maybe his reply to the security agent has been misunderstood.
Security can be so strange, sometimes... (last year, I had to open and start my laptop at MEM... But it was not before departure...It was at the arrival,after the customs check, when you just want to take a taxi to your hotel and sleep after a 15 hours trip)
Maybe he just tried to tell security that, as a pilot, he doesn't need a bomb in the shoes .

Lt-AWACS, I am a frequent traveler. Not only in Europe, but India, DXB, Russia, South America. And I have never seen the signs you mention.

Security is one thing. Cinema (as I call security in some airports) is not security.I can tell you that if one day I am asked to remove my belt, then the pants will follow.

Teva
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
artsyman
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:11 am

Whether you guys like the rules or not, they are rules. There are avenues open to appeal them if you like. What do you think would happen in virtually any Middle eastern country if someone just said "oh to hell with your rules, I'll do what I like" and broke them ?

You think they'd even be alive ....

Jeremy
Ps, Teva, they do have the signs at CDG and at LGW, I can't speak for all airports
 
OE-LDA
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:14 am

I remember a guy in the United States who made a joke while testing a microphone on public radio that the US started to bomb the USSR with nuclear bombs. Was he fired or arrested? No, he kept his job a president of the United States. For the younger ones among you: It was Ronald Reagen.

Regards, OE-LDA
I am totally missing basics and clueless about airline flying!
 
cancidas
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:20 am

the funniest thing is that the US sees itself as a "FREE" country. what a fucking joke!  Pissed

this pilot should not have ever been arrested or threatened with prison. i would like to know how this is illegal. what ever happenned to free speach!?!?!
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
teva
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:22 am

Jeremy,
I believe you, but in CDG,they must be a large as a post stamp, because I have never seen them....And I work here, and it the origin of my trips.
Teva
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
777236ER
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:24 am

A pilot wouldn't need a bomb in his shoe to destroy the plane he's flying. Becomes a bit pointless really.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
artsyman
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:25 am

Maybe if people had not assumed that the pilot of Egyptair was joking when he told his fellow employee that he wouldn't be alive after the flight, then 217 people wouldnt have lost their lives that day.

Jeremy
 
funflyer
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:26 am

HOW DARE YOU CANCIDAS EVER MAKE FUN OF YOUR OWN COUNTRY?
YOU MAKE ME SICKThere are limitations to free speech
you cant yell fire in a crowded place. So now you cant yell bomb in an airport.
SO DEAL WITH IT.
Who cares about status?
 
ANA777Master
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:27 am

Perhaps the guy was being a smart-ass and showed his contempt toward the American screeners. They should have kicked his ass right on the spot, if this was the case.
 
artsyman
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:30 am

A pilot wouldn't need a bomb in his shoe to destroy the plane he's flying. Becomes a bit pointless really.
***************

Maybe he doesn't want to blow up his own plane, maybe he just wants to get the bomb through security to give to someone else. 9.11 had plenty of inside involvement. Before you react to this, I am not suggesting that this was any more than a joke, just that there is more than one way to look at this.

As far as free speech, goes, It doesn't mean do and say whatever you want. If you threaten to kill someone, it isnt free speech.

 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:31 am

Yeah, free speech is limited, i have myself said that it doesnt really exist. Fire in theatre, bomb in airport are well known peramters for this.

FunFlyer-
'HOW DARE YOU CANCIDAS EVER MAKE FUN OF YOUR OWN COUNTRY?'
this however seems really silly
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
AF002
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:32 am

I hope it's only to make an example out of him that it's gone that far. Except that, things are getting out of control. Security is more about perception that anything real; the next attack will prove it, sooner or later. It's the same for computer security: wishful thinking! It doesn't hurt to try tho.
 
OE-LDA
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:38 am

The answer to FunFlyer's question is very simple: In a free society you CAN make fun of your own country. And if it is a strong country then it will get over it.

Regards, OE-LDA
I am totally missing basics and clueless about airline flying!
 
fspilot747
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:40 am

The poor guy makes a damn joke, and our country has to go arrest him and consider making him pay 11 years of his life in jail for it? The guy shouldn't lose his job, shouldn't lose his ATP, shouldn't lose a thing for what he said. It was a harmless joke, and if the jerk at security couldn't realize that, then he's an idiot too. If he actually had a bomb in his shoe, would he tell them that? Get real folks.

"HOW DARE YOU CANCIDAS EVER MAKE FUN OF YOUR OWN COUNTRY?
YOU MAKE ME SICKThere are limitations to free speech
you cant yell fire in a crowded place. So now you cant yell bomb in an airport.
SO DEAL WITH IT."


Pipe down, Funflyer. You'd probably love to see this guy hanged for what he said.

Ghee whiz, what a world we live in.

FSP

[Edited 2003-08-09 20:41:22]
 
cmckeithen
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:01 am

Well your right about one thing FSPilot747.....some of the TSA agents are idiots, but they know their jobs. And when you make a joke like that, the consequences are high. So.....like I said above, a fine and jail time is needed. Maybe I was a little extreme in saying that he needs to be fired, but Air France needs to take some disciplinary action against him.
 
777236ER
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:03 am

Maybe he doesn't want to blow up his own plane, maybe he just wants to get the bomb through security to give to someone else. 9.11 had plenty of inside involvement. Before you react to this, I am not suggesting that this was any more than a joke, just that there is more than one way to look at this.

As far as free speech, goes, It doesn't mean do and say whatever you want. If you threaten to kill someone, it isnt free speech.

Of course there's more than one way to look at it. But what's the worst possible thing the pilot could have said? Even "I have a bomb in my shoe- I'm going to kill you all" completly dead-pan and with no smiling shouldn't get you 11 years in prison and the loss of your career and pension.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
cmckeithen
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:11 am

Right 777236ER. I am happy that we have such tight security measures in place at our airports. I would not mind taking 30mins to get through security if it means that my flight will be safe. And I am sure the pilots feel the same way.
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:12 am

A pilot should know better, there have been signs in Airports all over the world for years, that you cannot make jokes about bombs, and that all jokes will be taken seriously. People were arrested for this long before Sept 11.

Absolutely!

Has everyone forgotten the "No Joking-It's the Law!" signs that have been airports in the USA for at least twenty years? This is not a BS 9/11 knee-jerk response. This is well-established American law.

Ah well, one has come to expect that here in the multinational Airliners.net forum that anything negative that happens to a French man in America will be spun into an anti-French hate crime

I do have to agree with Funflyer insofar as his statement "You can't yell 'fire' in a crowded place, and you can't yell 'bomb' in an airport." The fact that the pilot in question is employed by Air France is immaterial. It simply doesn't make a shred of difference. The pilot could have flown for American Airlines...and he still would have been arrested. Besides, I'm sure the pilot didn't have a big sign on him that said "I AM FRENCH, TORTURE ME" (okay, save his ID badge, but still, it's small)

The anti-American (and anti-other countries as well, don't get me wrong...it's everyone here) sentiment on this board never ceases to amaze me.

So I have a question for the anti-law advocates on this board: How would you feel if a pilot for, say, United, announced as a joke at FL350 in his 757: "I am hijacking this aircraft"? Wouldn't you want him arrested?

There's no difference.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
airplanetire
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:12 am

What ever happened to freedom of speech in the United States? I thought that was in our constitution. Now I would understand submitting him to a THOROUGH search for saying something like that, but even if a sign says that people can be arrested for saying that, I believe it is unconstitutional.

-Airplanetire
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:19 am

Airplanetire,

Freedom of speech doesn't apply when a threat is made. Could I walk up to a police officer and say "I am going to kill you" and get away with it? I think not.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
ghost77
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:26 am

Stupid pilot!!! You can't say stupid things or do jokes... in the US specially when you are at a security check point in the airport were you almost board an aircraft!!!

If people don't like security it's fine! But, uou do can make a lot of faces showing your anger, but making those kind of jokes it's not an excuse for not going to jail... 11 years it's too much.. I would give him 4.... 1200 days in jail it's a lot of time to think in your mistake! And for the next time... KEEP your COMMENTS to yourself!!!! Easy!

Ricardo Morales  Smile

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
artsyman
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:36 am

I'm going to kill you all" completly dead-pan and with no smiling shouldn't get you 11 years in prison and the loss of your career and pension.
****************

He wont get 11 years, he wont even do time. All they did was announce the worst possible outcome for him. Maybe the pilot should thank his lucky behind that these guys work hard to keep bombs and nutcases off his planes.

Lastly, just because he wears a pilot uniform, doesn't make him a pilot. Just look at the jumpseat riders on 9.11.Therefore security must treat everyone the same.
 
Gnomon
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RE: Pilot Arrested Over Air 'joke'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:38 am

Yet another example of the conservative right in the U.S. taking things way too far. It was a small aside, an attempt at friendly banter with the TSA personnel. I'm still trying to figure out why exactly in hell they continue to feel the need to search pilots' shoes, in the first place.

This isn't the first time that the TSA and law enforcement in the U.S. have over-reacted.

JBirdAv8r: I wouldn't necessarily say those who believe the guy shouldn't be imprisoned for 11 years for joking about having a bomb in his shoe are "anti-law." I'm sure everyone here respects the rule of law. But sometimes, the rule of law is taken too far. In fact, incidents like this cheapen the rule of law.