CPH-R
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SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Tue Aug 12, 2003 7:15 pm

Just read this at my usual news portal. Apparently, the ruling council in Iraq have given SK, along with 4 others, permission to fly cargo & passengers to and from Basra.

The other 4 are: Gulf Air, Royal Jordanian, Emirates, Qatar Airways and LOT. Strange choice in my opinion, since both KLM, BA, VS and LH have been eager to start flights to/from Iraq.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Tue Aug 12, 2003 7:18 pm

How large is Basra anyway as in population? how far is it from Baghdad?

Is there really that much demand for srervice to the country just yet?
 
TriStar500
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Tue Aug 12, 2003 7:24 pm

The exclusion of LH - if true - would not surprise me that much, since Germany is part of Mr. Dumbsfeld's "Old Europe".

The inclusion of LOT on the other hand, makes quite some sense, since Poland has based a sizeable contingent of soldiers in the central parts of Iraq.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
Pe@rson
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Tue Aug 12, 2003 7:26 pm

Basra is Iraq's second-biggest city after Baghdad.

Which airlines served Basra prior to sanctions?
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Amir
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Tue Aug 12, 2003 10:46 pm

I hope SAS will utilize their traffic rights soon!
After all, all the Airlines granted rights to Basra are pro US countries! what a coinsidence.....

Basra does have a good potentail of traffic. In the past it hardly had any international flights but now with the Situation in Irak and the closed Airport in Baghdad it makes sense to tap the Iraqi potential from Basra. After all it is still easier to travel from let's say Baghdad to Basra by road transportation than driving all the way to AMM (Jordan). At least you don't have to cross the border to catch your flight.

Regards
Amir

 
CPH-R
Topic Author
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Tue Aug 12, 2003 11:23 pm

I doubt that they'll start it soon, since there's still some unrest there. What I'm concerned about - what type will they be using? Perhaps adding it to a flight to/from Turkey?

I'll bet that they'll be giving some good offers for IAD-CPH-Basra flights pretty soon.
 
Jaws707
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Tue Aug 12, 2003 11:52 pm

Would an aircraft in their fleet like the Md-80 series, 737 series, or A321 have the range to do the flight? Maybe if they decided to hold onto a 767 for a while longer that can be used, but I imagine that using an A333 on that route would be overkill and kind of wasting the planes potential.
 
transswede
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Tue Aug 12, 2003 11:58 pm

One of the left-over 767's would probably be best for this route...
 
sk945
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:00 am

SAS have said earlier that if or even they start traffic to Iraq. - They would use a aircraft for 2x weekly flights to Iraq and then the aircraft will be used to open CPH-JNB with a 3-4 weekly flight. Rumors - but high valued such.
 
Danny
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:41 am

The selection of airlines is tipically political. No suprise there's no Air France among them.
 
GOT
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 1:01 am

I doubt that one of the 767's will be used for this route, since the last a/c should be leaving this fall, October?
The most likely candidate I'd say is the A321. According to Great Cricle Mapper, CPH-BSR is 2430mi and the range of the A321 is 3000mi. The 737NG and MD-80/90 all have too short range for this operation, and the A330/A340 seems like an overkill, to me at least.
OTOH, SK945's reasoning is interesting, would be great to see new services to both JNB and BSR.

According to Swedish TV4, SAS would like to start the flights as early as late August, though I personally doubt that would be possible.

GOT
Just like birdwatching - without having to be so damned quiet!
 
codeshare
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 1:15 am

What?

I don't know what LOT's going to be doing there, possibly no US airline would want to fly there, because of the security.
I think the Beirut service might be extended to Basra. (so a 737 I guess)

On the other hand they won't start flying there immediately.

And what about the exact route - over Saudi, Jordan, Syria or Iraq??
How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
 
LJ
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 1:20 am

Strange choice in my opinion, since both KLM, BA, VS and LH have been eager to start flights to/from Iraq.

Looks like those who are allowed to fly to Baghdad are not allowed to fly to Basra.

BTW KLM postponed Amsterdam - Baghdad untill the winter schedule due to security issues. However, according to KLM, initial booking were satisfactory.
 
DoorsToManual
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 1:34 am

I guess these flights will mostly comprise of armed forces personnel, diplomats, construction-related company employees etc. etc. plus some VFR, I doubt there will be many tourists at this early stage.
 
DoorsToManual
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:12 am

p.s. it appears BA has been given the green light for Basra too:

http://www.iii.co.uk/shares/?type=news&articleid=4720112&action=article
 
BDRules
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:14 am

The other 4 are: Gulf Air, Royal Jordanian, Emirates, Qatar Airways and LOT.
If my maths is right do people make that 5 airlines plus SAS?

That will be good for SAS. What market will they be aiming at?????

Regards

Stu
 
LGW
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:16 am

Where is all this demand coming from for flights to/from Iraq?

Ben Pritchard
 
DoorsToManual
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:23 am

As I stated above, it'll be mostly business-related traffic (according to a friend at BA).

As the country has to be rebuilt, the coalition authority is contracting out various jobs (water, piping, education, roads & other related stuff). Employees from such countries will need to have some form of transport, hence the airline services resuming.

Then there's all the diplomatic and UN personnel, not to mention the petroleum company employees. Cargo loads should be great.
 
UN_B732
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:26 am

The 737NG can fly more than 2470 miles! ALl of those US transcons on the 73Gs.
-UN
What now?
 
Danny
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:42 am

"What?
I don't know what LOT's going to be doing there, possibly no US airline would want to fly there, because of the security."

I'll tell you - since Lufthansa will not be allowed to fly to Iraq due to political reasons LOT who has codeshares with LH and is joining Star Alliance would take STAR passengers via Warsaw to Iraq. It is very important to STAR since they don't want to give whole stake to BA and One World.

Daniel
 
transswede
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:48 am

Since both SAS and LOT (soon) are in the Star Alliance, I guess Basra can become a new Star Alliance hub!  Smile
 
madviking
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:57 am

GOT, I didn't understand what you meant by, "SK945s reasoning is interesting?" Hope they aren't suspending the route!

Though it may sound overkill, a A330/340 type may be beneficial. The route will carry high yield business traffic building commercial opportunities in a region that has been isolated for years. Also, the 330/340s cargo capacity can exploit any freight demand the route will require. As mentioned above, if 2 frequencies are conducted a week, both J and Y classes should be able to hold their own. This is not a destination that expects daily services. And also, as mentioned before, if JNB is in the cards the "big bus" is more than likely to share the route. Just enough time to make a quick sortie to BSR before returning home for the long haul again to JoBerg! I can almost bet the belly will be full of cargo on each mission, something that would be a missed opportunity with a 737 or 321.

I not up to date with SAS's big bus deliveries. Are any scheduled in the near future? Based on the world market getting one would be easy!
 
transswede
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:03 am

The problem with sharing an aircraft between Basrah and JNB is that it really requires two aircraft for daily flights to JNB from Europe. And SAS doesn't exactly have a lot of surplus aircraft...

(That is, if they do what every other airline seems to do and park all day in JNB, only flying night flights there and back)
 
sk945
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:05 am

SAS will receive one more A333 in april 2004, but it still aint enough if they would like to keep the current longhault flights and also open new ones. So either they keep one or two B767 for a while - or they will drop some other routes.
 
transswede
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:11 am

MadViking,

The only remaining Airbus widebody left on order is coming this winter, and that's an A330-300. But that is replacing the last 767 on U.S. routes, I believe. (Which will complete SAS long-haul fleet renewal: 7 A340, 4 A330)

SAS does have options for several more A330/340's, but they have not ordered any yet. I wouldn't mind seeng them lease/buy some A330-200's soon, with all the rumored new routes (Basrah, Baghdad, JNB, Shanghai, SFO), they sure will need new aircrafts soon.
 
DoorsToManual
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:14 am

The BA service is planned for 2 x weekly via Kuwait with a 777.
 
copenhagenboy
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:51 am

I think they will keep some 767, why not use it to Bashra and then eg 3 times a week OSL-EWR?
I really don't think they will use the same plane to J'hb. By the way it is in a way official that SAS has no plans to start new routes in the close future, but there are many different rumors, and where do they come from, SAS? Maybe they are just smart saying, we do--we do not  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

[Edited 2003-08-12 21:59:44]
 
madviking
Posts: 125
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:56 am

If the last 330 delivery is going to replace the 767 to IAD and changing options to orders is not in the cards, then maybe dropping a few frequencies on 901/902 after September could be a strong possibility. Then again the 767 for GEN-EWR also needs to be replaced but as previously done, that service may see reductions or suspension between October and April. And without giving Stockholm any ideas, 945/946 may also be under review if aircraft are needed elsewhere! Dropping ARN-ORD may be a good calculated risk as AA is out of the Swedish market. Here we go again, filter everything through CPH. The only problem is loosing some traffic to KL, BA or AF.

Since cost cutting is at the top of the agenda, restructuring current routes may be a viable option over taking additional aircraft!
 
trintocan
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:03 am

Yes, I heard about BA, they announced their new services to Basra this evening on the news. It seems strange that Basra is being started before Baghdad, seeing that the latter is much bigger - is it that it's less safe to fly there or what?

TrintoCan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:18 am

Maybe I should clear up LOT  Smile

From what Ive just heard on the local news here in Warsaw was that LOT will be flying in to support its troops with sort of logistical flights that will be configured for a smaller number of pax.

I dont think its unusual for LOT to fly WAW-Basrah since Poland has deployed a sizeable force to Iraq and is in command of the 3 sectors of Iraq (The others led by US and UK) Im guessing alot of logistics and humanitarian aid on these flights. Sort of like Gulf Air is doing with A320s.
 
sk945
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:22 am

Madviking, I hardly see that ARN-ORD will be the first to go.
OSL-EWR will go from daily to 3/w and ARN-EWR from daily to 4/w from Oct 26th. So one A333 will be used for ARN-EWR-OSL route.
 
Jaws707
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 6:02 am

The changes to the ARN-EWR, and OSL-EWR routes, are those seasonal or permanent? I would imagine they are seasonal and if they are SAS might need an additional A333 for their summer schedule.
 
gordonsmall
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Wed Aug 13, 2003 6:05 am

I can't see SAS using A330-300 equipment to JNB, more likely to be A340.

The great circle route CPH-JNB is about 5000 miles, take into account airways routings and sids, stars and approach vectoring and you can probably add another (to be safe) 250-300 miles onto that - about 5300 miles in total.

The range of the A330-300 with a good passenger load (no cargo) is about 5500 miles, but with headwinds things could get very tight - and when you stick on 5 - 10 tons of cargo it is most likely going to need a tech stop en-route in at least one direction.

Anyone else know for sure?

Regards,
Gordon.
Statistically, people who have had the most birthdays tend to live the longest.
 
Jarek
Posts: 329
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:54 am

Hi,

according to LOT spokesman (on www.gazeta.pl), LOT is planning to start the flights to Basra as an extension of twice a week connection to Beirut.
They plan to start the operation September 14th.

Regards
JArek
 
sk945
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu May 09, 2002 6:28 am

RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Sat Aug 16, 2003 12:29 am

Well, now its ready,
SAS starts flights to Basra on August 29th

SK961 Dept CPH 0620 Arr Basra 1330, Aircraft: 767
SK962 Dept Basra 1500 Arr CPH 1835, Aircraft: 767

Operated once weekly on fridays.
 
birka340
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 1:25 am

RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Sat Aug 16, 2003 12:57 am

Why departure 6:20AM? No possibilities for inbound connecting passengers
to catch this flight. Is this due slot restrictions at CPH or BSR?
Is BSR airport only open during dedicated hours?




 
Jaws707
Posts: 667
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2001 10:45 am

RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Sat Aug 16, 2003 1:16 am

In response to the last post, I read somewhere that Basra is very limited in what it can do, and that the airport can only handle 1 flight per day so that is where the early schedule comes from I imagine. I agree though a later time would have been better to connect passengers, especially from North America.
 
birka340
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 1:25 am

RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Sat Aug 16, 2003 1:29 am


Regarding connecting psgrs.
Maybe its better with a hotel overnight on the outbound instead of
homebound flight. With this schedule the late CPH-EWR service SK901
Dep. 7:45PM will connect to the homebound flight (arrival 8:35PM) and
many European destinations will also be good.

 
CPH-R
Topic Author
Posts: 6059
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RE: SAS To Fly CPH-Basra!

Sat Aug 16, 2003 1:40 am

The problem with overnight stays at BSR, where the hell are you going to find a crew that would be willing to stay in Basra overnight? Remember, unlike what Dubya likes to think, there's still fightings going on in Iraq.

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