747400sp
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Will Boeing Build A All New 747 Successor

Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:21 am

Most of us have herd that Boeing is planning to up date the 747. But I wonder will Boeing ever build a successor to the 747 like it was to the 707. It would be interesting to see what they come up with maybe a triple decker that carry 850 passengers in a three class layout, it would use enlarge 7E7 engines and a cruising speed of 0.88 or higher. May be a flying wing. In know it may be years before we see a real successor to the 747, I would look to see what they build what about you.
 
gigneil
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RE: Will Boeing Build A All New 747 Successor

Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:26 am

Boeing has definitely stated than any aircraft of the A380's size or greater should be a BWB, and they were surprised that Airbus didn't go with one.

There isn't room for another plane of the A380's size on the market at this time... Boeing has instead "decided" to respond with a 747 Advanced. We'll see if it ever hits the market.

The problem is they keep "hacking" a new plane together. The 747 Advanced needs to truly employ a redesign of all possible systems.... cockpit, avionics, engines, cabin, and hopefully a new wing to be really competitive.

N
 
MITaero
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RE: Will Boeing Build A All New 747 Successor

Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:40 am

Yeah, at this point everything is just speculation.
 
Motorhussy
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747 Successor

Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:57 am

With a market about to receive the A380 and already embracing the 777-300 variants as well as the new A340-600, the 747 has already been succeeded.

Airports, airlines, the flying public et al are not yet ready for a BWB - with huge infrastructural and psychological barriers to overcome. Airbus and Boeing have both tested the water (or should I say air) previously, and both independently arrived at the same conclusion.

Somebody has to be first 'though - it's all in the timing.
come visit the south pacific
 
wgw2707
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RE: Will Boeing Build A All New 747 Successor

Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:59 am

I have seen photographs of mockups of the interior on the proposed BWB that Douglas was going to build shortly before they were absorbed by Boeing, and I consider the BWB concept to be an inferior design based on what I saw.
It appeared that there were no passenger windows except possibly at the very front of each cabin. In addition, it looked as though the legroom in coach would be every bit as bad as before, with the exception of those privileged to sit at the very front of the gloomy, windowless cabin (doubtless persons with frequent flyer miles or airline executives). In short, I do not think I would be willing to fly on a BWB, as it looks like such aircraft would be the ultimate "cattle cars."

In addition, the use of the type for cargo service
makes little sense as the advantage of conventional airliners is the fact that you can open the nose and load cargo containers in from the front, in a very efficient manner. The A380, even if it flops as a passenger liner, is sure to make a fantastic cargo aircraft, as it could easily be able to accommodate 3 or 4 rows of containers, whereas the B747 can, from what I've read, only accommodate two rows of containers across the main passenger level.

If Boeing wants to replace the 747, I think they should follow their early 1990s concept for a double-decker airliner. After the novelty of flying a BWB wears off, passengers will desert the airlines that fly them in droves for those flying A380s.

-WGW
 
AvObserver
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RE: Will Boeing Build A All New 747 Successor

Thu Aug 14, 2003 7:21 am

Boeing's once proposed NLA (New Large Airplane), conceptually similar to the A380, is now a non-starter because the A380 almost entirely usurps the current small market for very large transports. The BWB seems to be a logical entry for when this market eventually gets large enough but it will be hugely expensive to develop-I'm guessing at least $20 billion-probably forcing Boeing into a partnership with someone else (Lockheed-Martin? Northrop-Grumman?). It probably won't happen for another 15-20 years, if ever. Meanwhile, all Boeing can do is eke out a small market niche for the 747 Advanced between the A346/773ER and the A380 and hope there's a reasonable market for 450-seaters and the freighters. Any '747X' as once proposed, would have to be radically upgraded in aerodynamics, engines and systems to have any prayer of competing with the A380 and only then, when the large aircraft market expands enough to allow for another entry.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Will Boeing Build A All New 747 Successor

Thu Aug 14, 2003 1:34 pm

I think Boeing is seriously looking at building a freighter based on the blended-wing body (BWB) design.

The reasons are simple: 1) it has much more interior volume space than the A380-800F; 2) the plane's fuel burn is 20-25% lower than the A388F; 3) because the BWB is essentially a flying wing it may have less runway length requirements than the A388F; and 4) the BWB freighter can be easily adapted to have roll-on/roll-off loading of cargo, which makes it possible to carry outsized cargo.

I think after 2010 the BWB freighter will definitely interest the likes of the air cargo divisions of LH, KE, CX, NW and SQ, CargoLux and possibly even the USAF as a true C-5 Galaxy replacement.
 
bobrayner
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RE: Will Boeing Build A All New 747 Successor

Thu Aug 14, 2003 1:49 pm

think Boeing is seriously looking at building a freighter based on the blended-wing body (BWB) design.

That's interesting. There's nothing about it here:
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/flash.html
Or here:
http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/
And there's only 1 (false-positive) here:
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=boeing+bwb
And this hasn't been updated since it was first suggested:
http://www.boeing.com/phantom/bwb.html
Cunning linguist
 
tekelberry
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RE: Will Boeing Build A All New 747 Successor

Thu Aug 14, 2003 1:59 pm

If they were to create an A380 equivalent, it would be too little too late. Most of the airlines that are considering an aircraft of this size have already placed their A380 orders.

It wouldn't be a good PR move to come out with an A380 equivalent now.
 
vr-hkg
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So You Mean...

Thu Aug 14, 2003 2:03 pm

...that companies are only ever working on those projects that are publicly unveiled, to ensure their competitors have ample time to work on their responses?
 
bobrayner
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RE: Will Boeing Build A All New 747 Successor

Thu Aug 14, 2003 2:23 pm

So You Mean...
...that companies are only ever working on those projects that are publicly unveiled, to ensure their competitors have ample time to work on their responses?


When was the last time somebody built a commercial aircraft and didn't make lots of noise about it in advance?

Compare to:
1. 7e7 (lots of publicity, not in production yet)
2. Assorted 747 and 777 variants (lots of publicity, at various stages)
3. Sonic Cruiser (lots of publicity, never got off the drawing board)
4. Pelican (many column inches earned by one intern drawing a big plane in Photoshop)
5. BC-17 (they tried making lots of publicity but nobody's interested)

A secretive approach would hardly help them get customers; unfortunate, as it would be very difficult anyway to find enough buyers for a freighter-specific design.
Cunning linguist
 
Areopagus
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RE: Will Boeing Build A All New 747 Successor

Thu Aug 14, 2003 3:25 pm

Boeing has definitely stated than any aircraft of the A380's size or greater should be a BWB, and they were surprised that Airbus didn't go with one.

Well, at least, they claimed to be surprised. All a part of dissing the competition.

 
Sjoerd
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RE: Will Boeing Build A All New 747 Successor

Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:06 pm

Isn't the A346 a direct competitor to the B744 ? Boeing should go back to the stretched B744 to fill up the gap between A346/B773 and A380. I know they offered it without succes, but I still think there is quite a large market for it, especially when airlines will start retiring their B744s.
Flanders + Wallonnia + Brussels = the UNITED STATES of BELGIUM
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Will Boeing Build A All New 747 Successor

Fri Aug 15, 2003 3:07 am

Isn't the A346 a direct competitor to the B744?

Nope. It does not have the capacity/payload to directly compete with the 744. The A346 competes directly with the 773ER.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Sjoerd
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RE: Will Boeing Build A All New 747 Successor

Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:30 am

OK not a direct direct competitor, although I am convinced both the A346 and the B773 are taking orders which otherwise would go to the B744. A stretched B744 with a capacity of 50 more passengers than the current B744 would fit just in between.

[Edited 2003-08-15 01:45:39]
Flanders + Wallonnia + Brussels = the UNITED STATES of BELGIUM

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