User avatar
Aaron747
Topic Author
Posts: 8529
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 2:18 am

The following is a listing of significant greater LA area airports and their average number of operations (movements) per day, as a means of illustrating the sheer amount of metal in the sky over LA at any given time. Just a fun, if not imperfect, statistical exercise  Smile

Avalon (AVX) - 63/day
Burbank-Glendale-Pasadena (BUR) - 441/day
Cable (CCB) - 241/day
Camarillo (CMA) - 557/day
Chino (CNO) - 548/day
Compton (CPM) - 164/day
Corona (AJO) - 186/day
El Monte (EMT) - 451/day
Flabob - Riverside (RIR) - 74/day
Fullerton (FUL) - 262/day
Jack Northrop Field/Hawthorne (HHR) - 220/day
John Wayne/Orange County (SNA) - 1041/day
Long Beach (LGB) - 1375/day
Los Angeles Int'l (LAX) - 2133/day
Ontario Int'l (ONT) - 430/day
Oxnard (OXR) - 243/day
Rialto/Miro Field (L67) - 343/day
Riverside (RAL) -293/day
San Bernardino Int'l (SBD) - 170/day
Santa Barbara (SBA) - 439/day
Santa Monica (SMO) - 452/day
Santa Paula (SZP) - 266/day
Torrance/Zamperini Field (TOA) - 474/day
Van Nuys (VNY) - 1520/day
Whiteman (WHP) - 412/day

TOTAL: 12,798

That's quite a few average daily movements for an area approx. 115 mi across, wouldn't you say?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
trickijedi
Posts: 3201
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 4:35 pm

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 2:21 am

Hmmm... I wonder how the NYC area and its 3 surrounding major airports compares to this. it would be interesting to do some kind of statistical comparison between the two.
Its better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than be in the air wishing you were on the ground. Fly safe!
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Topic Author
Posts: 8529
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 2:52 am

EWR - 1217
LGA - 1075
JFK - 785

No great difference from SNA, LGB or VNY.

Total: 3077, barely more than LAX
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Sean-SAN-
Posts: 690
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2002 4:02 pm

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 4:08 am

I've flown to at least half of those airports.. although it is busy, it's nothing to get excited over. Socal approach is very competent, and most private pilots in socal are much better at dealing with the busy environment then other pilots who learned in less busier areas.

That being said, IMO one of the most dangerous areas is the strech of coast from Long Beach to SNA (Orange County). Lots of general aviation in the area, including people going up and down the coast, and then you have LGB and SNA sending jets straight at you.

-Sean
 
capt078
Posts: 415
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:52 am

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 5:01 am

now i know that socal is very busy, but i learned to fly in southeast florida (another extremely busy area). in fact, southeast florida is busier i would argue, because in addition to the extremely large metropolitan area that spans from jax to mia, you have the piper factory, as well as several flight schools, including pan am flight academy, embry-riddle, and flightsafety int'l (the largest in the nation). much like socal, my region is highly popular, particularly because it's right on the beach. and i agree, it is busy and requires not great flying, but tremendous lookout and scrutiny. in fact, in recent months, there have been several accidents in southeast florida, most notably, a midair collision over deerfield beach (n. of fll).

i don't know about you, but i much prefer flying into/out of and through controlled airspace, particularly that with flight following. busy is not an issue if you have someone watching your back. what gets scary is flying into busy uncontrolled fields, where on top of there being no supervision, planes often don't even use a radio.
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 5:09 am

well over 18,000ft would it not be Cleveland, the busiest ARTCC in the USA???
Just curious??
Interesting question.


Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
planesarecool
Posts: 3208
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 12:37 am

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 5:21 am

Where did you get all that info?
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Topic Author
Posts: 8529
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 5:30 am

www.airnav.com/airports/
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
sllevin
Posts: 3312
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 5:57 am

My opinion is that SoCal is the toughest space much of the time. Like NYC, lots of traffic watch aircraft and heliocopters operating a lot of the time, oodles of commercial traffic, tons and tons of training, and, most uniquely (of the hot areas) significant terrain. The terrain forces specific tracks to be used, with less ability to "free form" incoming traffic. (as does R-2501, the huge restricted airspace up over the high desert, encompassing places like Edwards and China Lake).

Steve
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Topic Author
Posts: 8529
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 6:01 am

Yes, that's the crucial factor with LA versus other busy areas - the proximity of 5 - 10,000 foot terrain all over the place, with poor visibility much of the time due to haze to boot.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
capt078
Posts: 415
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:52 am

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 7:22 am

good point about the terrain issues of southern california. on the other hand, summer flying in south florida adds the challenge of some of the most volatile weather. it is not uncommon for cumulous clouds to grow, mature, and dissipate in only a short while, due to all the heat and pressure movements, and the high precipitation levels.

either way, they're both busy areas, and i for one would never fly in socal without all available information (at the least). most likely, i would consult a local school, and perhaps pay for an hour of ground schooling on the region, if not even a flight.
 
modesto2
Posts: 2669
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 3:44 am

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 7:37 am

From my flying experience (private and commercial) through SoCal, one of the greatest issues is the smog. This phenomenom creates a dangerous situation for traffic alerts and in-flight awareness.

I'd also say that the crowded skies can make flying very exciting. I was on a downwind to VNY with a friend at the controls when the controller alerted us to traffic at our 10 o'clock position...we had the pleasure of an AA MD80 on finals to BUR pass over our heads. Experiences like these make driving seem so boring!
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 7:40 am

LAX is an awesome airport. I flew there coming from HNL on an AA 763 and I noticed that there was a huge blanket of smog covering the ground! The AA terminal at LAX is very modern and has creative light fixtures. Yea, LAX is busy, but are those numbers really true?
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
flybynight
Posts: 1131
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 10:15 am

The comparison is al little off. One should factor in other airports for the NYC area, since pretty much every airport near LA was used for comparison - such as White Plains and Tetorboro, Islap, etc. . Not just the "Big Three"
Heia Norge!
 
ZID
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 4:33 am

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 1:05 pm

Well let's just look at the TRACON numbers. Since June is the latest month with numbers from every facility, we'll look at full year numbers from July of last year through June of this year.

SoCal TRACON ---------------- 2,113,728 ops
New York TRACON ------------ 1,961,300
Chicago TRACON ------------- 1,427,838

For no reason, here are the top ten ARTCC's for that same period:

1 Cleveland Center ------------- 2,975,768 ops
2 Atlanta Center --------------- 2,900,284
3 Chicago Center -------------- 2,855,947
4 New York Center ------------- 2,821,589
5 Indianapolis Center ----------- 2,670,653
6 Washington Center ----------- 2,552,972
7 Jacksonville Center ----------- 2,226,149
8 Memphis Center -------------- 2,206,190
9 Miami Center ----------------- 2,168,544
10 Fort Worth Center ----------- 2,114,980
I'm not joking! This is my job!
 
flybynight
Posts: 1131
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 3:03 pm

Does SoCal include San Diego as well?
Heia Norge!
 
tekelberry
Posts: 1309
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 6:37 am

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 3:25 pm

Actually, the busiest airspace is usually over the midwest in the IL/IN/WI/OH area.

That doesn't include flights originating or ending in the midwest, just airspace usage.
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 3:30 pm

That was my point saying the Cleveland ARTCC was the busiest, which ZID posted. Though I think folks want lower level traffic

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
jeffie813
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 3:18 pm

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 3:34 pm

for sheer movements the busiest areas have to be socal, south florida, and nyc.
 
Bluewave 707
Posts: 2793
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:21 am

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 4:53 pm

I agree So Cal is one busy area.

Does anyone know which hotel in the LAX area is good for plane spotting?
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
n521na
Posts: 457
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2001 6:51 am

RE: Los Angeles - World's Busiest Airspace

Sat Aug 16, 2003 5:05 pm

Yeah, add San Diego to that list as Socal approach controls SAN as well.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 737tanker, alggag, Amwest2United, AST1Driver, cheeken, coolian2, crazytoaster, CV990A, flyguy89, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], PSA1978, smi0006, transit, wedgetail737, wn676 and 227 guests