jfazzer
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2001 4:02 am

A330-300 Range

Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:28 am

Last year I flew to Orlando Sanford from Manchester (UK), with My Travel airways.
I was lucky enough to travel on the A330-300 that they leased from Skyservice (C-FBUS) which had loads more legroom.
However, we had to make a scheduled tech-stop at Bangor Maine for fuel. As U.S air regularly operate the A330-300 to Europe and Northwest will be doing so in the very near future I was wondering why our aircraft didn't have the required range for the journey but these aircraft seem to.
Obviously the 200 series doesn’t have this problem so despite it's lower capacity would this not of been a better choice for the two American airlines??
Any Info?
Cheers.
 
saab2000
Posts: 1216
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:19 pm

RE: A330-300 Range

Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:44 am

I know that Florida flights to Europe are significantly longer to Europe than flights from the northeastern and the midwestern part of the US. I do not know where US Airways flies from (Pittsburgh?), but I would guess that NWA will fly theirs from Detroit and Minneapolis. Both of these places are closer to Europe than Florida.

I have flown on SWISS from ZRH-MIA and it is about a 10-10.5 hour flight. That might simply be too much for the A-333 (with a full load of pax/cargo), though for the A-332 it is no problem.

All just speculation though. Cannot tell you exactly.
smrtrthnu
 
ap305
Posts: 916
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2000 4:03 am

RE: A330-300 Range

Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:46 am

The skyservice a330-300 might be a lower mtow version depending on the year it was built. The 230ton(now 233 i think)mtow option was introduced only a few years back(i think only after the 332 came into service).US air's 330s are most probably the 230ton versions.

Regards
ap305
 
sk945
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu May 09, 2002 6:28 am

RE: A330-300 Range

Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:07 am

SAS use the A333 between ARN to ORD. Fligth time 9 hours.
 
BAGSMASHER
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 1:18 am

RE: A330-300 Range

Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:16 am

NW did order A-330-200s. They will begin to arrive summer 2004 and will be used on routes that are flown by 747-200s now and some longer DC-10 flying.
 
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Crosswind
Posts: 2536
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 4:34 am

RE: A330-300 Range

Tue Aug 19, 2003 5:00 am

As charter aircraft Skyservice's A330-300s will seat significantly more than those operated by scheduled airlines with multi-class cabins. The increased payload to be carried, coupled with the fact that they are early build ex-LTU aircraft not certified to the higher MTOWs, limits their range.

Both US Airways and Northwest A330s are A330-300X aircraft, with the highest MTOW available to strech their range.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
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jetjack74
Posts: 6585
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: A330-300 Range

Tue Aug 19, 2003 5:17 am

If the A330-300 has to make fuel stops, it would still save NW signifcantly over the DC10, even though the DC10 has better range capability.
Made from jets!
 
spyderz
Posts: 624
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 8:06 am

RE: A330-300 Range

Tue Aug 19, 2003 5:45 am

Well for this winter Air Canada plans to utilise their A330-300 aircraft on some pretty long routes from Western Canada such as YVR-LHR, YYC-LHR, and YYC-FRA. This will be the first time Air Canada will be using these planes on these long routes.
 
ba319-131
Posts: 8153
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 1:27 pm

RE: A330-300 Range

Tue Aug 19, 2003 5:54 am

The Skyservice A330-300's are early models without additional (ER) fuel tank capacity.

SAS,Air Canada,Northwest and US Airways all operate the IGW -300X version,hence the 'non-stop' ability.

Rgds

Mark
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: A330-300 Range

Tue Aug 19, 2003 6:01 am

The A330-323X's that NW ordered will have no range problems on their route structure.

A lot of older A330s were a tad underpowered.

N
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: A330-300 Range

Tue Aug 19, 2003 6:08 am

Here are some empirical observations about A330-300 range: Two of the longest trans-Atlantic scheduled routes operated regularly by 333s are DUB-ORD (EI) and FRA-YYZ (AC) at 3,669 miles and 3,945 miles, respectively. EI uses only A330-200s on its DUB-LAX route (5,182 miles), having stated that the distance is beyond the range of their -300s. MAN-Orlando/Sanford is 4,233 miles. Thus, it would seem that the realistic maximum range of a 333 at full payload is about 4,000 miles, and less than 5,000 miles.

As noted by Ap305, the 333s of Skyservice are some of the earliest (lower MTOW) of the type delivered, which may explain the reason for the fuel stop at Bangor on the MAN-Sanford flight. Stronger than usual headwinds may also be the reason -- on a FRA-DTW non-stop flight in the recent past, due to headwinds we were more than one hour late in arriving at DTW even though we pushed back on time at FRA and were climbing out within 20 minutes.
 
John
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Joined: Sat Sep 18, 1999 10:47 am

RE: A330-300 Range

Tue Aug 19, 2003 6:30 am

I've talked to US Airways A330 crews, and they claim that west bound FCO-PHL leg is about pushing the range limit on the 333. Depending on winds aloft, of course.
 
jfazzer
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2001 4:02 am

RE: A330-300 Range

Tue Aug 19, 2003 6:10 pm

Thanks to everyone for their comments and help.

Regards................Jfazzer
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: A330-300 Range

Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:06 pm

The A330-200 has an additional fuel tank:

Fuel Capacities:
A330-300: 98 m³
A330-200: 137 m³

Therefore the design range is almost 20% more; The -300 is rather a medium range plane, while the -200 is a longhauler, as opposed to the A340-ultra-long-haulers.

SailorOrion
 
MD-11 forever
Posts: 550
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:15 am

RE: A330-300 Range

Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:11 pm

"The A330-200 has an additional fuel tank:

Fuel Capacities:
A330-300: 98 m³
A330-200: 137 m³

Therefore the design range is almost 20% more; The -300 is rather a medium range plane, while the -200 is a longhauler, as opposed to the A340-ultra-long-haulers."

As far as I know, the A332 is not able to use the full fuel capacity without payload restriction. Once a pilot complained that they (SR that time) bought an aircraft with those additional tanks and range but they are not using them and even if they would use them, they couldn't load the full payload anymore........

Cheers, Thomas
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: A330-300 Range

Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:06 am

MD-11 forever:
Few aircraft I know (quite a few) can use the full fuel capacity when flying with full payload. Check the payload/range diagrams, you will find three limits (three different straight lines).

1) maximum structural payload (the horizontal line).
2) maximum takeoff mass
3) fuel capacity mass (not always found)

Exsample:
747-400ER:
maximum fuel capacity: 193 tons
usable fuel @ max payload: 161 tons

777-200LR:
maximum fuel capacity: 162 tons
usable fuel @ max payload: 131 tons

MD11:
maximum fuel capacity: 126 tons
usable fuel @ max payload: 99 tons

717-200:
maximum fuel capacity: 11 tons
usable fuel @ max payload: 9,5 tons

SailorOrion
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: A330-300 Range

Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:06 am

the A332 is not able to use the full fuel capacity without payload restriction.

...same applies to many other longhaul airliners, so why the big deal over this one?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: A330-300 Range

Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:28 am

EI's 333s are also of the -301 variety... they produce a paltry 64,000 lbs thrust/engine and would certainly have issues with DUB-LAX.

Northwest or US's -323X frames might also have just a bit of trouble, but Air Canada or Cathay could likely fly DUB-LAX and FCO-PHL with one of their -343Xs.

It'll be interesting to see the capabilities of QR's new -303Xs. They'll be the first operator of that particular variant.

N
 
MD-11 forever
Posts: 550
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:15 am

RE: A330-300 Range

Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:46 pm

"...same applies to many other longhaul airliners, so why the big deal over this one?"

There's no big deal on this one, just the fact, that on the A332 in Swissair configuration, the center tank was hardly ever used........

Cheers, Thomas