cx773
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CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:14 pm

CX will buy/lease some 744 from BA, some of them will be converted to 744F. If that's confirmed, then CX will be the first airline to convert 744 pax to 744F! also the 742F will be retired in 2006.
 
CX747
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:19 pm

Do we know which 747-400s are being sold? Also what is the time frame for delivery? My favorite airlines are BA and CX and my favorite aircraft is the 747-400! Nice to see some swapping!
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
CX 4ever
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Thu Aug 21, 2003 11:56 pm

That's very good news that CX is still considering B747-400. It's very interesting to see CX converting the ex-BA birds to 744F. I thought the current freighter fleet is already big enough to support the demand....

By the way, is CX going to return the two B747-400 that are currently on lease anytime soon? I think they are B-HOV and B-HUJ...
 
CX747
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Fri Aug 22, 2003 12:07 am

I don't think that they are going to be returned. If my memory serves me correctly, they will continue to operate for CX.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
behramjee
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Fri Aug 22, 2003 12:10 am

Where did you get this information from as I worked for CX this summer and there was not even a mention nor a rumor on this BA 744 deal?

Whats the source?
 
N754PR
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Fri Aug 22, 2003 12:12 am

I heard today they are talking of converting their own 744's to freighters, and returning 4 A343's when the leases are up..... 2nd hand 744's are possible to replace them.
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
cx773
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Fri Aug 22, 2003 1:50 am

Behramjee, that's the announcement from CX CEO today. I'm not sure whether CX will convert theire own 744 to 744F or BA 744 to 744F.

N754pr, yeah the leased A343 will be returned to SQ... they are definitely going away.

the brand new A330 B-HLU will be arring HKG on 5 sept.

 
B-HXB
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Fri Aug 22, 2003 6:49 am

Is B-HLU 2-class or 3-class configuration?

Also: I thought there were only three A340-300s (XM, XN, XO) that were leased from SQ, not 4? Bugger. I still have to fly on XM - it's the only CX 343 I've yet to travel on.  Smile
 
andrej
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Fri Aug 22, 2003 7:36 am

Hello all,

does anyone of you guys know what is the reason for returning of A343?

Thanks,

Andrej L.
 
CX747
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Fri Aug 22, 2003 7:40 am

That is a good question. Why are these A340s being returned? Are they to be replaced the A340-600s or these possible 747-400s?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
9V-SVE
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Fri Aug 22, 2003 8:08 am

Is buying a pax 744 and converting it to a 744F cheaper than just ordering a new one out of Boeing Field?
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:23 am

A freighter 744 from Boeing costs in the region of US$180-200 Million. A second hand 744 from BA will only cost 45 Million plus the freighter conversion costs.

I went to the briefing and was under the impression that no 744s will be added till 2005/6, when the A340s are returned. One of our own 744s is slated to be taken out of service towards the end of next year for Freighter conversion, and we plan to add around 2 freighters per year thereafter, I am assuming all conversions.

It was mentionned that CX want to use the 744s until they are 25 years old, which is an average of another 13 years of use, possibly as freighters. The same goes for the A340-300s that we own, of which there are 11 of them.

Long term fleet planning was difficult as there is no good replacement for the 744. The A380 is far too big, the A346 and 777-300ER are a little small and the 747EX is at the moment a figment of Boeing's imagination. We will need two long haul aircraft added by 2006 (Plus four 744s to replace the A343s) so maybe we will end up just getting six 744s! At the moment the best replacement for a 744 is another 744!
 
CX747
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:31 am

Funny that after all these years it is still the 744! Interesting that CX will look to replace their leased A340s with 744s. Maybe there is more to CX's interest in the 747 Adv than we know!
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:39 am

The way the slide show was presented gave no conclusions about which type we were going to order, however each potential new addition to the fleet was flashed up on the screens and all seemed to have disadvantages. The only one without a major disadvantage was the 747EX. However, there are no firm performance figures out yet for this aircraft, and indeed as I mentionned, it does not exist yet, and will take ages will it is ready for delivery.

Even the 7E7 was mentionned as being very economical, but far too small for Cathay's needs.
 
CX747
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:07 am

I'm sorry I am not familiar with the 747EX. Is that the 747 Adv with a different name? What type of updates does the 747EX have in comparison to the 747-400?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
United Airline
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:19 am

Will CX keep a few as PAX aircraft?
 
andrewtang
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:40 am

B-HXL , B-HXM , B-HXN and B-HXO will eventually be returned. Hence the 4 A343 stated.
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:44 am

Not sure what the 747Adv is, but the 747EX is a slightly stretched 744, to take 419 passengers or so, and has engines from the 7E7. I think it will have the raked winglets like the 764/773ER as well. Not sure what other changes there are though.
 
cx773
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Fri Aug 22, 2003 1:16 pm

I've some crazy ideas......I'm wondering can A380 be a combi aircraft???  Wow! The upper deck carries passengers while the main deck and the belly carry cargo! haha

or pax 744 converts to 744 combi, however, the upper deck remains to carry passengers (first class or business) and the main deck carries cargo. this type of aircraft can fly to Anchorage or business destinations like New York.  Wow!
 
Hamlet69
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Fri Aug 22, 2003 1:18 pm

Cx flyboy,

I have not heard of it refered to as the 747EX, but the aircraft you describe is what is also called the 747 Advanced (747Adv). Boeing is proposing this aircraft in both pax and freighter models, with the freighter getting a slightly longer stretch than the pax. EIS is planned for 2009, which is mostly due to the engine development. As you say, engines are to be derived from the 7E7.

Regards,

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
United Airline
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Fri Aug 22, 2003 4:45 pm

Does anyone have the source for this?

Also will CX keep some of BA's B 747-400s as PAX aircraft?

How many will CX take? Heard that they might go for the B 747 Adv.
 
Red Panda
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Fri Aug 22, 2003 5:05 pm

747-400 looks good. But I would love to see more A346s in the fleet. I always imagine and hope that CX will buy or lease some A345s and A380s in the near future. They must look great in Cathay's colour.

r panda
 
CX747
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Sat Aug 23, 2003 12:04 am

What does the future hold for the A340-600 in CX's fleet? Also, what is the difference between the 747-400 and the A340-600 in CX fleet operations?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
B-HOP
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Sat Aug 23, 2003 12:52 am

Interesting, I thought they are very likely to launch the 747Adv since they do need a larger aircraft for flights HKG-LHR/YVR/LAX, surpise that they only need 2 new long haul aircraft till 2006. Don't forget Disney would open 2005. I suspect the deal would be for newer BA744 delievered in 1998/99.

Regards
Kev
Live life to max!!!
 
manni
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Sat Aug 23, 2003 1:17 am

CX has had rough times past spring, but that it is that unfortunate that it now has to take secondhand aircraft rather than new ones, as their competition does, suprises me a bit. Let us hope things will improve soon for CX.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Sat Aug 23, 2003 11:31 am

Cathay has the money. We are one of the richest airlines in the world, however one thing Cathay doesn't do, is waste money. We see the 744 as having a 25 year life, and the 744s currently in our fleet will remain until 2014, probably spending the latter years as a freighter. By 2014, there will be aircraft out there like the 747EX/Adv, A380, Dreamliner etc.. that all offer lower economics, but because the old 744s will have been paid off, they will be churning in a good profit.

Now, if Cathay buys new 744s for 2006, and operate them for 25 years, it will be 2031 by the time they reach the end of their useful lives, and it is debatable whether it will be even worth running a 744 as it will be a relatively high cost aircraft compared with the fuel efficient planes we are bound to have by then. Cathay does not want to spend US$200million on a new 744 only to use it for 15 years and retire it because it's costs are getting too high, when we can buy an ex-BA machine (Also Rolls Royce) for a mere $45million and fly it for 15 years then retire them along with our own.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Sat Aug 23, 2003 11:48 am

I'm happy that CX still seem to be very interested in the 744!

CX747 Said.
What does the future hold for the A340-600 in CX's fleet? Also, what is the difference between the 747-400 and the A340-600 in CX fleet operations?

The A340-600 at Cathay only seats 288 pax compared to either 343 or 389 on the 747-400 they operate. Although they could seat alot more I still have the feeling that Cathay want to operate these 3 346's on HKG-JFK non-stop sometime in the future, these aircraft have 60J class seats which is alot for any A340. Until we see an A380 order from CX the 747-400 will be the prime long haul aircraft for them, I believe that we will see an A380 order even if it's only say 6 aircraft that they will use on the very busy HKG-LHR route.
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: CX To Buy/lease 744 From BA

Sat Aug 23, 2003 12:04 pm

The briefing we had the other day did mention the A380. They said it had very good economics when it was full, but only when it was full. Having 500+ seats can be hard to fill, and when the aircraft is not full, that's a lot of money wasted. The 744s at the moment do a long haul and come back and fly the Asian routes very profitably. It is doubtful whether the A380 can be flown around Asia at a profit all year round, and if not, it is expensive to have the aircraft sitting around waiting for it's next long haul flight. It is also a very expensive aircraft to buy.

Cathay have also said they are reluctant to be one of the first customers for the aircraft and be the guinea pigs as we have done before. They want the aircraft to enter service and have performance/dispatch problems ironed out before they make a decision.

As for the A346, the JFK non-stop is planned for next year, so that is their purpose. Whether we then decide that the A346 was doing a good job providing that capacity gap between the 343 and the 744 will remain to be seen, if we buy additional machines. I don't think Cathay is at all interested in the A345.