zrs70
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Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 2:14 am

Basically, question is, "What US airports had transatlantic service before deregulation?"

[Edited 2003-08-22 19:30:34]
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timz
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 2:27 am

If you mean nonstop only: without checking I'll guess 8 airports.
 
ntspelich
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 2:40 am

PanAm was operating transatlantic service from New York (Idlewild/JFK), PHL, WAS, BOS fromw hat I can gather from a bad scan of a March 1, 1969 timetable.

Chicago (ORD?) , LAX and STL had additional service by TWA

NS
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timz
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 2:59 am

Nonstops:

SEA SFO LAX
ORD
MIA IAD JFK BOS

In 7/77 no nonstops from BWI PHL EWR DTW DFW IAH-- to London or Paris, anyway. Forgot to check STL and ATL, but I'll bet against them.
 
jsnww81
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 3:02 am

I'm pretty sure the above list is accurate, although I'm surprised about PHL.

ATL didn't get transatlantic service until 1978, when Sabena started BRU flights. Later that year, Delta and British Caledonian started LGW service, and Delta began FRA flights in 1979.
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 3:03 am

Houston had nonstop on British Caledonian to London.

KLM served Houston also, not sure if it was non-stop or not.

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ntspelich
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 3:08 am

Like I mentioned, I was looking at bad scans of old timetables, so you could imagine what all of the red lines looked like bunched up on the eastern seaboard.

Sorry for the misinformation

NS
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timz
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 3:25 am

Dunno if BCal flew nonstop IAH-London in 1977 but it's not in the 7/77 OAG. KLM flew IAH-YMX-AMS.
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 3:35 am

I'll check my old schedule then.

I know they did in 1978 because I flew them to Britain. My memory could be failing, but I thought my timetable dated from 1977 on that flight, but when I get home I'll check the old timetable.


Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
DETA737
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 3:40 am

Here is a list of the information I could dig up on Transatlantic services in 1977 to the United States.


ANC- several European carriers flew here on route to Tokyo.

BOS- Aer Lingus, Air France, Alitalia, British Airways, Iberia, Lufthansa, Pan Am (before 1975), Swissair, TAP, TWA

DTW- Alitalia, British Airways, Pan Am, TWA (before 1975)

IAD- Air France, British Airways, Pan Am, TWA (before 1975)

LAX- Lufthansa

MIA- British Airways, National (to LHR after 1970, CDG was introduced in 1977)

ORD- Aer Lingus, Air France, British Airways, KLM, Lufthansa, Olympic Airways, Pan Am (before 1975), SAS, Swissair, TWA

IAD- Air France, British Airways, Pan Am, TWA (before 1975)

JFK- Aer Lingus, Aeroflot, Air France, Air India, Alia Royal Jordanian (began in 1977), Alitalia, British Airways, CSA, El Al, Finnair, Iberia, Icelandair, Iran Air, JAT, KLM, Kuwait Airways (began in 1977), Laker Airways (began in 1977), LOT, Lufthansa, Olympic Airways, Pan Am, PIA, SAA, Sabena, SAS, Swissair, TAP, Tarom, TWA

LAX- British Airways, Lufthansa, Pan Am, SAS, TWA

PHL- British Airways, Lufthansa, Pan Am (before 1975), Swissair, TWA

SEA- British Airways, Pan Am, SAS

SFO- British Airways, Lufthansa, Pan Am
 
JumboBumbo
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 4:02 am

When did CO begin/end service to GTW from DEN with DC10s? I thought this flight was non stop.
 
JumboBumbo
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 4:04 am

Check that, I meant LGW/DEN. Sorry  Smile
 
JohnJ
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 4:09 am

How about British Caledonian's LGW-STL-DFW flight? That may have come after deregulation, though.
 
skyhawk
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 4:28 am

DETA737-How did you check your information?(Good job BTW) Just wondered because National(original) went out of JFK to AMS. Not sure of the exact dates, but I thought it was in 1977.
 
richierich
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 5:14 am

DETA,

I flew into PHL on British Airways in 1977 and we stopped at BOS. I am pretty sure this was routine, so I don't know if PHL had direct BA service back then.

rich
None shall pass!!!!
 
Jacques60
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 6:58 am

DETA737 : you missed AF to/from LAX in the 60's starting with 707 both pax and 70F , both via YUL , then with 741, tentatively non stop but soon with a tech stop in YUL dur to poor payload of the 741.
 
haveric
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 7:01 am

PHL has had n/s service on BA from LHR long before 1977
 
DETA737
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 7:36 am

I got all my information from old timetables and IATA records. I actually just realised that I forgot about Air France and I may have missed some other airlines. I'll try to answer some questions put forward.

- National Airlines did not begin service from MIA to AMS until July 2, 1978, service to FRA had started on May 1 of that year.

-British Airways and TWA both had non-stops from PHL-LHR at various times before 1977.

-Some of the carriers I listed above did not necessarily serve the respective cities non-stop. For instance Olympic Airways flew Athens-Montreal-Chicago.

-British Caledonian did not begin service to STL until October of 1983 and the service continued to Dallas the next year.

-KLM did indeed have a flight to Houston, they began service there in 1957. British Caledonian was the first carrier to begin non-stop service to Europe out of Houston in 1977.

-Continental's DEN-LGW did not begin until June 1987.

-TWA began inaugurated Transatlantic service out of STL in April of 1985 with service to LGW.


After derregulation in 1978 was when more point to point flights began opening up to Europe. That year both Braniff and Delta. In 1980 Northwest would enter Europe as well. European carriers began to service more US airports and entered codeshares with US carriers. Sabena, British Caledonian and KLM had entered ATL by 1981. Lufthansa entered MIA in 1979 and Sabena began flights to ORD in 1980.
 
skyhawk
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 10:31 am

DETA737-You answered about Amsterdam, but that was out of Miami, did you find out about the JFK flight? I do know that we flew it, my husband remembered working the flight departure but like me isn't sure exactly when it happened.
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 10:46 am

SEA-LHR non-stop, Pan Am at a frequency of 3-4 times weekly.

The earliest liberalization of rights between the U.K. (LGW) and the U.S. also began around this time. Initially, the plan was to allow a U.K. airline to launch a new service every other year and the same for a U.S. airline. Thus, a new U.S.-LGW route would be opened every year. The earliest routes launched under this plan were British Caledonian on LGW-STL/DFW and Delta, in 1978, on the ATL-LGW route.
 
DETA737
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 10:58 am

National Airlines began JFK-AMS in December of 1978 with the DC-10.
 
skyhawk
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 11:17 am

DETA737-Thanks for the reply, never got to fly it because National did "International Training" for Europe and if you didn't have it, you never got there. I did't realize at the time just what I was missing, found out when we were taken by PanAm.
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sat Aug 23, 2003 4:21 pm

DETA737- thanks for the words on IAH, I knew KLM had been at the airport for a long time. I checked my British Cal timetable and it is from 1978-79. SO I'll take your update on the 1977 flights.

The only BCal London -USA service is shown to Houston. for examplefrom Apr29-Oct27 1979 , there was daily service to London leaving Houston at 6pm w/ London-Gastwick to IAH leaving at 1140am. There is also a 'Texacargo' service from Glasgow to Houston listed (no times).

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate
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zrs70
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sun Aug 24, 2003 2:14 am

What about Bangor. Was that just a technical stop in the pre-jet era, or were the stops ever scheduled for passenger pick up/ drop off?
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timz
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:22 am

I was surprised to see that circa 1968-74 PHL had two daily nonstops to LHR. Pan Am was first, then TW joined them by 1968; by 1974 BA had replaced Pan Am. I guess when everybody dropped their transatlantic 707s PHL didn't rate a widebody; must have been depressing to go from two daily Europe nonstops to none.

Also, in 1970 PA had nonstops to LHR from TW / KDTW), USA - Michigan">DTW and BWI; as I said those were gone in 1977. The BWI flight was a DC-8, which means JT4As. Wonder if they could take full payload out of there-- what was it, a 9500-ft runway?
 
bluemeatball
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:31 am

If SJU is considered a US airport (which I do) then PA had flight 254 from MIA-SJU -LIS-MAD-FCO 2-3 times a week
 
ARCJET
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RE: Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?

Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:28 am

Northwest Orient started European Service effective June 9, 1978 from Boston to Cophenhagen and Glasgow.
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