BAGSMASHER
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West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:28 am

Remember back in 90s (dont remember exact year) when NW announced service from RNO to SEA,PDX,LAX and SAN with A-320s? Then Reno Air cried bitterly, went to the Clinton administration and filed a complaint. Then NW was told that they were not allowed to compete with Reno Air and the plans were scrapped. Then AA signed a codeshare pact with them and took them under their wing, then AA decided they like Reno Air so much that they bought them and then butchered them and ate them. Will NW ever have a hub in the west? Why dont they do a CRJ hub at RNO or ABQ that way their costs would be low enough to effectively battle the LCCs? Or maybe they should buy Frontier and go head to head with a weak UA at a vulnerable time and steal some market share. Any thoughts?
 
keesje
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:39 am

SFO & LAX are still seem to powerfull to compete with directly.

Phoenix together with Continental & American West ?
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MSYtristar
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:40 am

God I hope they don't buy Frontier! What a travesty that would be!

Seriously, F9 is not looking at mergers/buy outs right now...and for good reason. They are successful on their own.

If you are flying from the Midwest/East/Southeast, MSP/MEM/DTW work pretty well for West coast connections. I don't think they really need a Western hub, nor do I think they want one at this time.


Steve in MSY
 
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jetjack74
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:28 am

Probably not. The west coast is overserved. NW won't violate the agreement with Alaska. No west coast flights paralleling AS, and AS would do the same.

Msytristar,
I don't think you have anything to worry about with F9 being bought out. Denver is an overexpensive place to fly out of and once the state does a land value reassesment, the operating cost will once again go up. F9 will have that to deal with. DEN is a bad place to hub out of.
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727LOVER
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 2:37 am

BAGSMASHER,your writing seems awfully biased against Reno Air. You left out the fact that NW wanted to start that service from Reno, SOLELY AS REVENGE AGAINST RENO AIRfor starting RNO-MSP, which was just a spoke route on a hub.
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OzarkD9S
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 2:59 am

Through codeshares and alliances, NW essentially HAS hubs at SEA (AS) and SLC (DL). In order for NW to set up thier own hub in the west they'ld have to take on an incumbent entrenched carrier at one of the viable hub locations. Not the best way to spend precious cash at the moment.
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acidradio
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:01 am

Oh and don't forget that they codeshare with Big Sky in Billings for connecting service to all your favorite destinations in Montana!  Smile Beat that!
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:02 am

Yeah, if they have gone all this time without a real attempt to open a big west coast hub, now is certainly not the time to start.
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 4:38 am

BAGSMASHER,your writing seems awfully biased against Reno Air. You left out the fact that NW wanted to start that service from Reno, SOLELY AS REVENGE AGAINST RENO AIRfor starting RNO-MSP,


Actually, I think it was "revenge" for QQ starting a RNO hub and LAX-RNO-SEA service...

[Edited 2003-08-26 21:39:14]
 
clrd2go
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 4:40 am


Did somebody say "American West?"



Jim
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aviatortj
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 4:44 am

MSP is west of the Mississippi  Smile/happy/getting dizzy...that is sufficient for NWA. Correct?

~TJ
 
Delta777Jet
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:38 am

NW indeed try to open a "minihub" at RNO due that QQ has opened a ns flight from RNO - MSP, which was withdrawn right after NW started their own RNO-MSP flight !

And HP and CO cancelled their codeshare agreement!

Patrick
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as739x
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:16 am

Why do you now consider SEA there west coast hub? They operate a few Asia flights, service to MEM x2 daily,DTW x5,MSP x6...about 6 753 per day. And they cosdeshare with Alaska on a very large amount of flight from SEA. So I think its a mni-hub at the very least. Show that in the onboard magazine. We show MSP layout in the Alaska magazine.
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jetjack74
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:04 am

SEA is looked at as a hub because of the codeshare agreement with AS. Alaska's network in shown in it's own window in the magazine. It's there, look for it.
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DCA-ROCguy
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:29 am

Remember back in 90s (dont remember exact year) when NW announced service from RNO to SEA,PDX,LAX and SAN with A-320s? Then Reno Air cried bitterly, went to the Clinton administration and filed a complaint. Then NW was told that they were not allowed to compete with Reno Air and the plans were scrapped.

This acount is hilarious. The Federal government has not assigned airline routes since 1978. So the assertion that the gov't has told any USA airline "they can't fly a domestic route" since then is simply false. Furthermore, the Sherman Antitrust Act does not prohibit businesses from "competing" with each other. It only outlaws specific predatory practices such as capacity-dumping and predatory pricing. If I remember correctly, there were no rulings on this matter regarding Reno Air. If NW stopped running an RNO focus operation, they did it out of their own choice.

Methinks Bagsmasher's usual anti-LCC bias has gotten ahead of his grip of facts.

Jim
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PVD757
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:34 am

Don't forget the new codeshare with DL. SLC could be a nice little connecting point for the west as well. I do not think NWA will start anything on their own....They are too busy trying to bankrupt Midwest Express in MKE.
 
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mats
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:56 am

One of NWA's business plans is to fly where the competition does not. I recall an article in Air Transport World about how they do not serve any of the top 10 markets in the United States.

In other words, if the plan remains, Northwest isn't interested in LAX-SFO or LAX/SFO-LAS.

Right now, I don't know of any major Western cities that lack major competition or an existing, well-positioned major carrier.

My guess is that Northwest plans to focus on its strengths: thh North Central states and the Pacific Rim. The rest will all be codeshares.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:27 am

MATS, You are so right, it doesn't seem to take much to keep NW out of a market. During one of the employee checklist meetings, Richard(our CEO), was responding a question by an employee. When asked why we don't break into more markets. His response was that all the markets are already overserved. Latin America, Australasia, west coast, Pan-African Region. Tell me, is Australia overserved? No it's not. It's an excuse that may have worked in the 1990's, but if the airline doesn't start competing with the other majors, than NW will have a tougher time in the future. The only region that we compete in is our own. It works, but it's becoming vulnerable to low-cost competition. Detroit is a big target to the LCC's. MEM, and MSP has already become a popular place for Air Tran, Southwest. NW was successful in their fight with Vanguard, but the other LCC's are going to have a better, more solid ground to stand in the future.
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DTWINTLFLYER
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:08 am

pvd757...well said. In future years the DL codeshare (and eventual inclusion into SkyTeam) will certainly make a big impact on cities like SLC..... Also, SEA LA and SFO are hubs although they have been downsized in past years...but still this is a perfect example of how the codeshare will be beneficial for NW
 
afitch7881
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:14 am

"MEM, and MSP has already become a popular place for Air Tran, Southwest. "



Neither MSP or MEM have Southwest service, and probably never will. SW is not a big player in DTW either.



Eric
 
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:18 am

Northwest could establish a hub at Seattle/Tacoma. No airline has a hub at Seattle and it is a gateway city, which would make sense for Northwest, given that it has an extensive network to the Pacific Rim and it could offer direct service to cities in the Western United States.


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DTWINTLFLYER
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:21 am

SEA is a HUB for us. Now, it isn't as big as it used to be, but it is still a hub where we have numerous flights including NRT HNL AMS and soon to be Maui. Eventually we will bring back our KIX too. Don't forget with our codeshare with Alaska, it keeps us from adding some cities.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:50 am

The only region that we compete in is our own. It works, but it's becoming vulnerable to low-cost competition. Detroit is a big target to the LCC's. MEM, and MSP has already become a popular place for Air Tran, Southwest. NW was successful in their fight with Vanguard, but the other LCC's are going to have a better, more solid ground to stand in the future.

As noted, Southwest is not at MEM or MSP. Of the six Cartel-network carriers, Northwest alone has gotten off relatively easily in the current industry restructuring. The central and upper Midwest, NW's domestic backbone, has the weakest LCC service of any part of the country.

All three of Northwest's hubs are in cities small enough not to have secondary airports large enough to serve as LCC hubs. Chicago has Midway; Dallas has Love (even if collared by the evil Wright Amdt.); DC has BWI. All of these airports were ready-made for an LCC to move in and build up. And these metro areas have populations big enough to easily support an LCC at a secondary airport.

Only Detroit seems to have attracted moderately serious attempts at LCC competition. Southwest initially entered Detroit at City Airport, which was too small for this purpose, and the city reneged on a promise to extend the runway and make it suitable. So Southwest, which rarely leaves markets, moved out to DTW and has kept its head down. It's reasonable to wonder if Northwest exerted pressure on the city not to fix up DET.

As we know, AirTran is doing gangbusters at FNT despite the hour drive. If Spirit chooses its battles carefully and keeps its CASM as low as Southwest's, they might realize the big plans they recently announced for the DTW market.

MSP is overdue for invasion. Personally, I'd love to see either Southwest or AirTran fly right into NW's face in MSP and set up a hub operation. AirTran prospers just fine in DL's face at Fort Widget, for example; they might well do just as well at MSP. Why should the upper and central Midwest miss out on what the rest of the country is enjoying? That new HHH terminal isn't exactly bustling, either, so gates at the Lindbergh terminal shouldn't be an issue.

AirTran, for example could probably easily run MSP to BWI, DFW, LAX, BOS, LGA, PHL, MCI, SFO, HOU, MKE, and possibly MLI and OMA. AirTran upped MSP to a fifth ATL flight this summer, so they must be doing well there. Southwest, were they to enter MSP, could easily run BWI, PVD, DTW, LAX, OAK, CLE, MSY, SEA, HOU, and possibly IND. Both of these carriers are far better managed than was the scheduled Sun Country, and have proven track records of establishing themselves in tough markets.

As for MSP being NW's home town and all of that, it's not the late '90s anymore. Businesses in Minnesota as elsewhere have to worry about the cost of flying and might well be open to adding a big-scale LCC presence into the mix up there. Same for DTW and MSP.

Jim
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flashmeister
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 10:29 am

No airline has a hub at Seattle
Absolutely incorrect. Alaska's hubbing at Seattle.
 
PHXinterrupted
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 10:47 am

"No airline has a hub at Seattle and it is a gateway city, which would make sense for Northwest, given that it has an extensive network to the Pacific Rim and it could offer direct service to cities in the Western United States."

Yes, Alaska operates a hub at SEA and for all practical purposes, UA operates a mini-hub with direct flights to Tokyo.


Keepin' it real.
 
MSPXJGuy
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:32 am

NWA has absolutely no interest in the west. At one point there was talk of setting up routes between LAX, PHX, and AS / KLAS), USA - Nevada">LAS to get rid of America West codeshare but it would be too costly for them. NW isn't happy about HP like CO but NW needs HP to feed its Asia routes. Makes no sense to force passengers to fly to MSP to get to NRT so thats why they use HP for feeders to LAX to serve NRT. Plus NW has an extensive code share with AS and now that Big Sky is owned by Mesaba (who I work for), NW can start using that more to their advantage way in the long run.
 
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:45 pm

NW operated AS / KLAS), USA - Nevada">LAS-LAX until 9-11; the flight was a tag onto Flight 1 (LAX-NRT-BKK -- soon to be LAX-NRT-MNL).

- - -

In the early 1990s, if SEA had the “right” facilities and NW $$$, then SEA would’ve likely developed into an NW hub… but for now the relationship with AS is likely more lucrative. If PHX became available, I’m sure it’d get a look from NW as well.

Other than SFO and LAX (already plagued by overcapacity), there’s really no market in which a Western hub could survive.
 
aviatortj
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:53 pm

DCA-ROC Guy-

You took the words out of my mouth. Also at HHH, phase two of construction called for plans to extend the terminal 10-15 gates out the NE side in addition to another parking garage next to the existing one. When the LRT opens in the spring, transportation between Lindberg and Humphrey will be easier considering there are stations at both terminals. I am not sure of how the logistics with security and all would work, but opportunities will certainly arise.

In addition to AirTran adding another flight to ATL, a direct flight to MCO from MSP was also added. Although I like the hometown airline and all, the almighty dollar is in charge. The cheaper I fly, the happier I am.  Smile

~TJ
 
flybynight
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 2:04 pm

Alaska's main hub is at SEA.
NW has at least a minihub at SEA. I still see the NW 742 flying off to Tokyo. You can spot that baby from far away!
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acidradio
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:18 pm

MSP is overdue for invasion. Personally, I'd love to see either Southwest or AirTran fly right into NW's face in MSP and set up a hub operation. AirTran prospers just fine in DL's face at Fort Widget, for example; they might well do just as well at MSP. Why should the upper and central Midwest miss out on what the rest of the country is enjoying? That new HHH terminal isn't exactly bustling, either, so gates at the Lindbergh terminal shouldn't be an issue.

Minnesota is run by communists who don't care. This town will always be owned by NW thanks to a local government who won't do anything to encourage competition. Too capitalist I guess.
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:51 pm

Minnesota is run by communists who don't care. This town will always be owned by NW thanks to a local government who won't do anything to encourage competition. Too capitalist I guess.

- AirTran and ATA serve MSP.
- MSP has tried to attract Southwest for many, many years; however, WN avoids fortress hubs (yes, WN serves a few fortress hubs but those airports were served early on, before they became a fortress hub or via the Morris Air acquisition – the lone exception would be DTW, but WN developed a strong consumer base while at DET) – there’s tremendous loyalty to NW within MN – and NW hasn’t been too kind to newcomers…
- With more than 150 large aircraft on order, JetBlue will undoubtedly serve MSP in the near future.
 
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 4:12 pm

Even with strong brand loyalty in an area, Southwest could, if they did indeed enter MSP, grow a large customer base fed up with high fares. Northwest would sure try to hold their own against them, but Southwest has extremely strong brand recognition.....even in cities' they currently do not fly to. My cousin lives in the MSP area and tells me that many business travellers fly NWA simply because they have no alternative. Sure, some may have loyalty towards the airline...but let Southwest jump in with nonstops to key markets for 1/3 of the price and see where their loyalties lie.

Northwest may have been able to hold off Vanguard on the MSP-MCI run (just an example off the top of my head), but I doubt seriously that they would be able to kick Southwest out of town. How is ATA and Air Tran doing from MSP anyway? Probably pretty good I would think.

That being said, I don't think WN will go to MSP at the moment. There are still some seriously LCC-underserved markets out there that should/willcome first.


Steve in MSY
 
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jetjack74
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:26 pm

Okay we're getting away from the topic of western hub. But is it possible that NW could be eyeing for a merger with AS at somepoint? It has been the talk over the last few years, that the connection between AS and NW runs a little deeper than it looks on the surface. I know this is speculation, but I think that the gov't would love see the number of carriers in this country shrink a little just as long as it doesn't affect the gov't officials choice of carriers in the DC area. I think that if a merger was to take place that this would be one that could pass. Neither has any overlapping routes. AS has a regional network in Horizon. NW would inherit 3 hubs in the west, SEA, SFO, and LAX.

But now I come to question that everyone will ask next. What about the fleet types and the difference of culture concerning employee unions. Well let's tackle the aircraft question first. AS will probably be retiring the B737-200/400's in the next few years. The MD-80's are on there way out from what I understand. That will leave carrier with fresh new B737-700/800/900 aircraft which are aircraft that can one can qualify on all at the sametime. NW will have gotten rid of their DC9's by then. Then comes the question of union and difference of culture. Well there is no question on this, it's irrelevant, and it doesn't matter. Mergers between companies in any business have almost never been held up due resistance with workers. Money can be thrown at the union organizations.

The only thing that matters is money and anti-trust concerns. Which i'll acknowlege the factor of whether either carrier will agree on money terms. This single most important part of a merger/buyout. Well what are your thoughts?
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Thu Aug 28, 2003 4:41 am

I think there's a 99.9+% chance an NW/AS merger will never happen... AS is lower cost carrier (and has even considered eliminating First Class). SEA doesn't house the facilities to function as a true mid-size hub for NW.
 
Trvlr
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Thu Aug 28, 2003 5:02 am

I'm not sure that the government would support a merger between NW and AS (read: a buyout of AS), because Alaska is one of the few large carriers in the country that seems like it is solidly on track for survival and profitability. They don't need to be taken over, and I'm pretty sure it won't happen.

Aaron G.
 
milemaster
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Thu Aug 28, 2003 5:17 am

(and has even considered eliminating First Class)

If one can even call it that.
 
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:56 am

What would NWA gain from its own West Region hub that it doesn't already have?

From MSP/DTW/MEM, NWA mainline flies to all major airports and more in the West Region: YVR, YYC, YEG, ANC, SEA, GEG, PDX, SMF, SFO, SJC, LAX, ONT, SNA, SAN, PSP, RNO, AS / KLAS), USA - Nevada">LAS, PHX, TUS, ABQ, SLC, DEN, COS, FCA, GTF, MSO, HLN, BZN and BIL

For points the West Region where you won't find a redtail, Northwest's longstanding (since 1989) code-share/frequent flyer agreement with Alaska/Horizon gives them access (through SEA, PDX, and BOI) to the following airports: YYJ, YLW, CLM, BLI, EAT, YKM, PSC, PUW, ALW, SUN, LWS, PIH, IDA, BTM, PDT, RDM, LMT, EUG, MFR, ACV, RDD, OAK, KTN, WRG, PSG, SIT and JNU. If including Alaska in the West Region, NW has by far the most extensive coverage of the 49th state of any network airline through its code-share with AS at ANC serving CDV, YAK, DLG, ADQ, AKN, BET, OTZ, OME, BRW, SCC and FAI.

In addition, NWA will gain access to even more West Region points through SLC as their code-share/alliance with Delta develops. NWA also has extensive coverage of California's smaller cities through its code-share with American Eagle at LAX. Big Sky Airlines covers even more of Montana plus MWH for NWA.

When you add it all up, the only points in the West Region missing from NWA's network when code-share routes are included are a handful of tertiary commercial airports in the states of Nevada, Utah, Arizona, Colorado and New Mexico. No airline, including the Big Three (AA, UA and DL) covers the West Region to an extent significantly greater than NWA when code-share routes are included.

 
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jetjack74
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:23 am

What the gov't thinks is irrelevant. The only thing they would be concerned with is how much control will the buyer have at both DC airports and are there anti-trust concerns. Your probably right, they most likely won't merge. But just because an airlines is on the road to survival, doesn't mean they're a target. It just means that the buyer won't get the controlling voting shares at a good price. I would like to see it happen. I would like to see us have a hup-presence in the west. My point is that I believe that AS could be a good buy for us in the future. AS will be bought by someone, at somepoint. It's just a question of when. The industry is dying to consolidate and get more individual power. Some of the big six will either go out of business, or merge. The UAL/USAir merger failed because the 2 companies could garuantee that the DCAir concept would not be a front for UAL's future griphold on the DC Metro Airports. USAir had to sell the hub of DCA some other airline not connected to the Star Alliance. Also the fact that UAL was slipping closer to Chapter 11.
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sllevin
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:28 am

While I don't think it's highly probable, I do believe that an NW/AS merger is one of the few that would make sense. Throw in a few more western routes out of LAX, and treat SEA as a major hub and LAX as a serious focus city, and feed them to both Europe and the Orient.

But it's not clear to me that the result would be improved ENOUGH to interest people. But it would clearly work, in my mind.

Steve
 
doug_or
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Thu Aug 28, 2003 9:02 am

A buyout of Alaska would be almost completely useless.

-most of Alaska's routes are fairly competitive and generaly lower yield. (obvious exception being Ak services)

-As stated, AS has a lower cost structure, which would be lost in a merger (though the yields on their routes would most likely remain constant)

-NWA would gain no new substantial feed. AS already feeds NW international servies from SEA, and QX already feeds NW domestic ops at SEa nd PDX.

-since NWA already serves most places AS flies, all they'd gain would be the north/south routes, which have been traditionaly poor for cartel carriers.

-Aircal

-Reno Air

-PSA

-Shuttle by United
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jetjack74
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Thu Aug 28, 2003 9:44 am

Yeah form the east. They might have been poor for those other carriers, because the west coast market is overserved and the little ones couldn't compete because there confined to own regions. Also the carriers that you mentioned were poorly managed. Nw would be inheriting a region that is vastly underserved. Who else flies to places Dutch Harbor, King Salmon And Cold Bay?
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EA CO AS
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:14 am

AS will be bought by someone, at somepoint. It's just a question of when.

If you said this seven years ago, I'd have agreed, but no longer. No one has the cash to buy AS to begin with, and they don't WANT to be bought, anyway. My understanding is that AAG's structuring contains a "poison pill" that makes any hostile acquisition damn near impossible.

Besides, NW already gets plenty of feed traffic and exposure through their codeshare and marketing agreements with AS. Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free anyway?

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
FATFlyer
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:48 am

. My understanding is that AAG's structuring contains a "poison pill" that makes any hostile acquisition damn near impossible.

I thought that AS eliminated their poison pill last year. I understood it got voted out at the shareholders meeting in 2002.
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jetjack74
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RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:33 pm

Exactly, I was just about to refer to that. If i hadn't read your post, i'd a missed it. A takeover doesn't have to be hostile. And the share holders in AS know that a poison pill clause devalues the stock on the market-trade. Don't count anything out. A healthy company can be a huge target for an aquisition. Just look at MCI before the merged with Worldcom. They were a thriving company and Worldcaom was in need of some good valued assets. If the shareholders on the AS board think they'll benefit from a merger than they'll goo for it. Their the ones getting paid. A faltering company such as TWA was the dumbest move possble. From a business standpoint, it was a worthless company and all the other airlines just wanted it to go out of business. American buying it was Don Carty's attempt to through American past United. They instead inherited tons of debt, and poorly maintained aircraft. So a healthy company such as AS would be a very attractive buy. THey will be a target down the road. I don't know by whom, but they will. I just was thinking that NW would be a good suitor simply because we don't have a single overlap with them on our route system. All the other major carriers do. They all have a SEA-ANC routing, at least. And they all have a SEA-LAX, SFO route which are very lucretive routes.Like I said, I was just throwing that out there as a teaser for the discussion and see what it would generate.
Made from jets!
 
doug_or
Posts: 3122
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 9:55 am

RE: West Region Hub For NWA

Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:15 pm

My point was that PSA and Aircal were good companies. they got bought by larger cartel carriers whos culture and cost stucture was incompatible. the planes and routes were shed, leaving nothing but spent cash and labor problems.
When in doubt, one B pump off