CanadaEH
Topic Author
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 5:53 am

AC A330 Tail Strike In Frankfurt

Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:43 am

I never heard about this until today..

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/reports/air/2002/A02F0069/A02F0069.asp

If you're interested in more reports, click on air reports on the left side. There's some pretty interesting stuff there.
EH.
 
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Fly-K
Posts: 2994
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RE: AC A330 Tail Strike In Frankfurt

Sat Aug 30, 2003 4:52 pm

Yep, the aircraft was under repair at LH Technik afterwards. I have a photo of it somewhere in the database, but didn't write the cause in the remarks. However, I never saw the actual damage.

Konstantin
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
Ryanair!!!
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RE: AC A330 Tail Strike In Frankfurt

Sun Aug 31, 2003 5:47 pm

I have always wondered about tail strikes on take off (remember the SIA 744 in Auckland?). After u hit Vee 1, doesn't the plane rotate and fly away due to the law of aerodynamics?

Correct me if I am wrong...
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
 
kaitak
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RE: AC A330 Tail Strike In Frankfurt

Sun Aug 31, 2003 7:22 pm

They must have had one hell of a nose up angle; I remember seeing an Air Jamaica A340 at Heathrow pitch pretty significantly on finals and although it came close to a tailscrape it didn't quite do so. I wonder what body angle would be required to do this?
 
boeing764
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RE: AC A330 Tail Strike In Frankfurt

Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:50 pm

Here is your photo Konstantin.
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Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt

From Dr. King's America to Nelson Mandela's Africa, the journey of equality moves on.
 
StarFlyer
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RE: AC A330 Tail Strike In Frankfurt

Mon Sep 01, 2003 1:31 am

Ryanair!!!
Your correct - but what if your V1 is too low due to the fact that the plane is heavier than you think? She wont lift off!
Yours truly - StarFlyer
 
barney captain
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RE: AC A330 Tail Strike In Frankfurt

Mon Sep 01, 2003 1:45 am

"After u hit Vee 1, doesn't the plane rotate and fly away due to the law of aerodynamics?"

Not really. V1 is simply the speed based on A/C weight and runway length that the go/no go decision must be made by in order to allow sufficient runway remains to abort on. Vr (rotate) is closer to the speed where the A/C is "ready" to fly however, this doesn't mean she just lifts off. Tail strikes are not uncommon, especially in heavy A/C, if you rotate too fast and don't allow time for all that mass to get moving up. Rotate beyond 13 degrees with the mains still on the ground in the 737, and you're draggin' a@@.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
as739x
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RE: AC A330 Tail Strike In Frankfurt

Mon Sep 01, 2003 2:35 am

The toughest part for Alaska pilots is getting a feel for the increased speeds on the 737-900. We have a few close calls and one strike with this bird. The new planes getting longer, and longer I think will make this stuff more common.
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
kaitak
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RE: AC A330 Tail Strike In Frankfurt

Mon Sep 01, 2003 3:29 am

A bit confused here - are we talking about a tailstrike (which occurs on landing) or a tailscrape, which occurs on takeoff. What I'm reading suggests the latter.

Mind you, it all boils down to a good clip around the ear when the crew gets back to Toronto!
 
AF002
Posts: 73
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RE: AC A330 Tail Strike In Frankfurt

Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:12 am

For those who didn't bother reading the linked article, the summary is:

Findings as to Causes and Contributing Factors

1. The pilot not flying (PNF) inadvertently entered an erroneous V1 speed into the MCDU. The error was not detected by either flight crew, despite numerous opportunities.


2. The PNF called "rotate" about 25 knots below the calculated and posted rotation speed.


3. The pilot flying (PF) initiated rotation 24 knots below the calculated and posted rotation speed and the tail of the aircraft struck the runway surface.


4. A glide path signal was most probably distorted by a taxiing aircraft and provided erroneous information to the autopilot, resulting in a pitch-up event. The pitch-up could have been minimized if the autopilot had been disconnected earlier by the PF.

Findings as to Risk

1. Other than proper cross-checking, as per SOP, and the speeds displayed on the PFD, the flight crew had no other means to know that an incorrect speed was inserted in the MCDU. A lack of situational awareness and airmanship contributed to not detecting the incorrectly set speed.


2. No warnings in the cockpit were provided to the flight crew indicating that the on-board equipment was receiving a false glide path signal. Had the flight crew noted the information depicted on the approach plate, it is likely that the PF would have been better prepared and reacted accordingly.


3. The flight crew was not directly informed of the possibility of glide path interference caused by a taxiing aircraft because the aircraft was not within 12 nm from the threshold, in compliance with ATS procedure.


4. The PF allowed the aircraft to climb 1000 feet during the pitch-up, which could have caused a conflict with other aircraft.

Other Findings

1. While the atmosphere in the cockpit was professional, it is possible that the flat authority gradient contributed to a more relaxed attitude toward cross-checking each other's actions or confirming other information.


Amazing!! Over self-confidence IS dangerous, I guess those 2 will remember for a long time...
 
na
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RE: AC A330 Tail Strike In Frankfurt

Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:55 pm

I would think a looooong 773 is a hot candidate for tailstrikes. Any reports?
 
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yyz717
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RE: AC A330 Tail Strike In Frankfurt

Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:00 am

Mind you, it all boils down to a good clip around the ear when the crew gets back to Toronto!

Do pilots get disciplined or fired for incidents such as this?

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
CanadaEH
Topic Author
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 5:53 am

RE: AC A330 Tail Strike In Frankfurt

Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:48 am

I read through another message board that the pilots were "motivated" to retire early...  Smile
EH.
 
CanadianNorth
Posts: 3143
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:41 am

RE: AC A330 Tail Strike In Frankfurt

Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:56 am

Sounds like someone is gunna get the sac in the end after all this...

CanadianNorth
Way to go, nice and slow, never late, 748!
 
AJ
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Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:54 pm

RE: AC A330 Tail Strike In Frankfurt

Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:12 am

"I would think a looooong 773 is a hot candidate for tailstrikes. Any reports?"

The fly-by-wire system on the B777-300ER is being programmed to prevent overrotation.

Singapore Airlines dragged the tail of a 777-300 here in Sydney, so it does happen! Boeing put the tail skid on the 777-300 for a reason.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: AC A330 Tail Strike In Frankfurt

Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:19 am

The 777-300ER also uses semilevered gear to provide additional takeoff angle while minimizing the possibility of tailstrike.

There ARE software tailskids on the existing 777-300, but obviously its not 100% effective.

N

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