NW747-400
Topic Author
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 4:42 am

Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 7:22 am

Hey everyone...I'm currently enrolled in a flight school at ILG for my private pilot cerificate and I want to head off to a unversity of some sort and advance my studying toward my career goals of becoming an airline pilot.

If there are any pilots or flight students out there that can recommend some schools to me, that would be great. I currently have applications out to Embry-Riddle and the Delta Connection Academy with their affiliation with Jacksonville University.

Thanks in advance for any available advice!

-Jack
 
m717
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:01 pm

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 7:29 am

I have given this advice over and over on this board...but I'll give it again.

Get a degree in anything EXCEPT aviation, so that you will have something to fall back on during the inevitable down cycles you will encounter during your career. The airlines do not care what your degree is in, they are only interested in the fact that you have a 4-year degree. Attending an aviation "academy" like ERAU, etc. will not make you any more competitive for an airline pilot position than attending a regular university and getting your ratings at the local FBO, plus going the non-academy route will be considerably less expensive,
 
luisinho
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 12:28 am

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 7:36 am

Hiii

I don't know how it is in the States, but here in portugal, prepare to pay a lot of money, ehehe!

The Portuguese government doesn't aids and don't finaciate any pilot formation program, if you want to be an airliner pilot pay €52000 and be happy  Big thumbs up

the Banks don't give loans for that specific type of formation... so or you get a rich father or.... give up for ever.

Does in the States exist publical universitys or airline connected centers where you can get formation and pay back when you start work??

They accept foreigners? like me that i'm portuguese?

I'm 24 years old, electronic engineer, and i have all the Phisical and psicological conditions be a pilot....

Well if you know somewhere i could go.... thanks

I tried to go to Alitalia Skymaster program, but this year they will not start formation. All courses are closed

Best regards  Big thumbs up
 
Guest

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 7:39 am

Students from JU/Delta Connection Academy are still getting jobs with Comair Airlines little more than 1000 hours, after 800 hours of instructing at the school.
 
Bobs89irocz
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 4:52 am

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 7:40 am

I went to Spartan School of Aeronautics for 6 months, (part 141) VERY good school. I learned a lot and its a safe, and professional school that teaches a lot of discopline. Its very expensive though thats why i left. It looks like money isnt an issue with you though since your thinking of Embry-Riddle and Delta Connections. Im going to a part 61 school now and even though the training depends A LOT more on me i do like it alittle more because your flying more. Look up American Flyers also, its part 141 and my instructor and SEVERAL of my friends have gone there and seems to be a great school as well. I didnt to there because of the cost. Look into some state Uninversitys also because most of them have flight programs that work out pretty good. I know U of Illiniois is good. U of Oklahoma, Oklahoma State University, and Texas State Technical College has a REALLY good program as well. Good luck.
 
tpowaleny
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2002 10:54 am

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 7:40 am

"after 800 hours of instructing at the school. "

...And at min wage like salaries..
 
Captain_777
Posts: 273
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2000 11:18 pm

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 7:49 am

Delta Connection Academy is excellant. I would recommend that Academy as well as Phoenix East Aviation in Daytona Beach. Whatever your choice is, best of luck.
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3454
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 7:53 am

I'm a current Jacksonville University student and I'll argue in favor for our program.

Here at JU, if you want to learn to fly and get your degree, we have one course available: Aviation Management and Flight Operations. While you learn to fly, you are getting a strong background in business management, taking some seriously in-depth business classes, not some lightweight "just-for-aviation" pseudo-classes.

For me, though, the big draw was the Delta Connection affilliation. Our flight department is owned and operated by the Delta Connection Academy (you can find full-page ads for us in just about any flying magazine). Upon completion of your CFI, CFII, and multi ratings, you are eligible to be hired as an Academy flight instructor where you work part-time instructing other JU students (working on private, instrument, and eventually all the other ratings). The interview for this privilege is airline-style. It's not hard to be an Academy flight instructor though--out of 15 applicants last semester, 12 are now working here as flight instructors. The three that didn't make it all passed their interview but failed our standardization courses (i.e. they didn't study!!!!). Once you reach 800 hours of dual given and 50 multi dual given, you're eligible for your guaranteed interview at Delta Connection airlines -- right now I believe it's Comair and Chautaqua, but the other Delta Connection carriers within the next year or so. As our ads say, we do have a 97% acceptance rate into the airlines by our flight instructors. I know several people personally that got picked up in the past few months. So if you want to fly for an airline, I suggest you seriously consider going our way  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Our tuition figures include the average amount spent on each rating (of course it varies for each, but right now I'm under-budget for the program as a whole, which is great!) and as with all accredited colleges you are eligible for federal financial aid and all that jazz.

I'm sure since you have an app in already that you've had some sort of correspondence with Jo Stone over in our admissions department -- she's great and a huge help. If you have any questions, contact her!

Good luck!
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3454
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 7:57 am

...And at min wage like salaries..

Yeah, pay is lousy ($10/hr, more for certain positions), but if you're in this for the pay....well, you're in the wrong profession.

It can be a struggle, but you'll only be living on it for a year or so. For a CRJ FO job at Comair, I'd live on Ramen noodles and Spaghetti-O's for a lot longer than that  Big grin
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
NW747-400
Topic Author
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 4:42 am

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 7:58 am

Luisinho - You can apply as an international student to any flight school in the states that you would like, getting the financial aid is something I wouldn't be able to help you out with. If you are interested in flight schools, contact some of them and see if financial aid is available for international students.

Bobs89irocz - that is one amazing vehicle. I had an 88 IROC with a 350 TPI, 350 turbo trans, and i put flowmasters on for a little extra noise. I sold it though, the bastard had some sort of electrical short that I couldn't find. I sure do miss that car. Thanks for the advice too, i appreciate it.
 
NW747-400
Topic Author
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 4:42 am

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:04 am

JBirdAV8r - I would like to chat with you some more about the JU/Delta Connection program. If you get a chance, drop me an email...MidwayCRJ50@aol.com, I would really appreciate it.

-Jack
 
meister808
Posts: 924
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2000 11:45 am

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:14 am

Well, I am currently a student at the University of North Dakota.. here you can follow M717's advice while getting training at a respected flight school. Here, you can get a degree in something aviation related, but also easily pick up something else, because it is a large, diverse, public university. You can't find that at Embry-Riddle. Added to that is the fact that, beacuse this is a public university, tuition costs are significantly lower.

-Meister Big thumbs up
Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
 
funflyer
Posts: 817
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 4:53 am

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:20 am

Im going to major in Aviation and minor in Airline managment.
Who cares about status?
 
NW747-400
Topic Author
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 4:42 am

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 9:25 am

21 years old, single, $10/hr flying CRJ's??? I'll take it!!!
 
Guest

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 9:35 am

21 years old, single, $10/hr flying CRJ's??? I'll take it!!!

No, it is $10/hr as a flight instructor for Comair/Delta Connection Academy for 800 hours. It's two or three times that per hour flying CRJ's once you are hired with the airline.

I might add that at Delta Connection Academy, you get Delta Airlines flight benefits while an instructor. My roommate just got his passcard and his parents get the travel privileges as well.
 
m717
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:01 pm

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 9:53 am

"21 years old, single, $10/hr flying CRJ's??? I'll take it!!!"

The sad part is that there are thousands of others that think just like this. Therefore the regional airline pilots will ALWAYS suffer because someone is willing to fly for nothing, dragging down the industry for everyone. Regional pilots will never get the respect or the salaries that they deserve and have earned with the investments they make in their careers because there will always be some young, inexperienced pilot lured by the prospects of "flying a jet" who will do it for nothing.

And that's a pity.
 
NW747-400
Topic Author
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 4:42 am

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 11:12 am

M717 - I didn't think about it that way, and I totally agree with you. But the young and inexperienced need jobs too, and it's not our fault that we are able to work for less. Don't knock the amateurs, you were one too.
 
m717
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:01 pm

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 11:42 am

I'm not knocking young, inexperienced pilots at all...and I know that they need jobs. In my opinion, and it's becoming more clear in today's hiring climate, that a CRJ FO is not an "entry level" job.

Also, I don't fault the young, inexperienced pilots that are "able" to work for less...just those that are "willing" to work for nothing or next to nothing. It makes it difficult to get the regional pilot salaries to a level commensurate with the job, the equipment, and the investment the pilots have made in their careers. More and more, the regional airlines are becoming a career job for many pilots, and not just a "stepping stone" to the majors.
 
NW747-400
Topic Author
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 4:42 am

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 11:52 am

M717 - You have obviously been a pilot for many years as you are very knowledgeable when it come to the industry. I would like to be a mainline pilot someday, and I would like your advice on how to get there. First step is to get my ratings and get a non-aviation related degree. If you are willing, I would like to get your advice, pilot-student, on the best way to get from school to a solid career in aviation.

Just for the record, I would never fly an airliner for $10 an hour, I was exaggerating. I don't even know that I want to be an airline pilot, flying cargo planes demands just as much attention on the job and demands just as much respect...but it doesn't have the same liability, and that's my primary concern with carrying pax.
 
WMUPilot
Posts: 1428
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:48 am

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 12:35 pm

As many know i'm a student at Western Michigan University and I know we have hook-ups with XJ and possibly soon to add C8 to the mix.
JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3454
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 1:35 pm

M717-

I totally agree with your points as well.

Although I can't vouch for what you see on the airline side of the equation, I can give you an idea of what I've been seeing here.

Truth be told, here at JU there seem to be more than a few "nay-sayers" actually in the program. They don't like the peanut pay that CFI's get here so they move to other flight schools in the area, some of which pay almost double the DCA pay rates, all of them knowing that they probably won't get picked up by an airline with around 1000 TT as we do here at DCA.

The mentality of most flight students here has been to go to Comair, survive probation pay, and move on up in the pay/seniority scale. It's been beaten into our heads since day one of flight training that if we want to hold out for more money and turn down an airline flying job, there are at least a hundred other people behind us who are more than willing to take our place. So it appears to me that holding out for more money isn't really going to make a hill of beans' difference with COM. I understand your view that overeager new hires "destroy the curve" of the pay scale, but it appears to me that it's either take a little or get nothing.

Now I really want to get involved with the politics of it all when I get aboard the airlines, so after I get my bachelor degree I'm going to go for the MBA. Maybe I can augment my salary that way.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
Guest

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 11:08 pm

Is it a good or a bad thing that I had some ALPA reps tell me I'd be a good union management person?
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Mon Sep 01, 2003 11:15 pm

Depends on how you look at it. Personally, I think it a good thing.
Puhdiddle
 
m717
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:01 pm

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:44 am

JBird,

There's the rub. That's the way it's always been (at least as long as I have been around...and that's more than a few years), and I'm afraid that's the way it will always be. At least as far into the future as these eyes can see. I don't know what the solution is. Virtually every regional pilot group is faced with tough decisions at some point. Recently, even with the state of the regional contracts today, companies have approached the pilot groups seeking concessions. They hold up the contract that the Mesa pilots recently signed for comparison. Now, the Mesa pilots felt they had no choice in the matter since the Mesa Air Group had started Freedom, an alter-ego, non-union carrier, and threatened to place any and all new RJ deliveries at that company. It's a never ending, double edged sword. So, you're right. Often it is either "take a little or get nothing".

Companies like Delta have taken steps since the Comair strike to ensure they aren't put in that position again. They have each hub covered by a multitude of regional airlines, both those that are actually owned by the company (Comair and ASA) and those that they contract with (such as Chautaugua). No one regional can back them into the corner that Comair did with their strike, so that striking is no longer the threat it once was, hence one less bargaining chip for the regional pilot.

In addition. ALPA has always looked at the regionals as more of a periphery than anything else. A sort of an afterthought. That seems to be changing slowly, with the emphasis on SLOWLY. It's a new world out there right now in the airline industry, and everyone...from the airlines in the way they do business, to the unions and the pilots in what they expect from the companies. Change is most definitely required on everyone's part. But, like anywhere, sometimes change is very difficult to effect. It often comes at great cost, and many times those involved are unable or unwilling to pay the price.

It will be interesting, that's for sure. But, like I said before, there are no easy answers. I certainly don't have any. Maybe you'll have some good ideas as you become more involved. I hope so.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2539
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: Flight School-Airlines

Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:16 am

Let me just throw a few things on the table.....

First, I know there are some people here who dont care too much for ERAU, however, I am an Aviation Business major over there, and am already employed full time by an airport, and have several other job oppotunities already, and I still have a year left of school. Ive seen other programs, and met with many students from many other programs. I know I would not be where I am at today if I had not gone to ERAU.

As for flying and the degree.... If you are going to fly, you can get an aviation degree, but just dont get a pilot degree. A 4 year pilot degree is worthless, but fly and get something like aviation business, maintence or engineering.

Now with regards to flight programs, dont be fooled by price. DAB is a VERY busy airport (Top 40 in the world in terms of movements) Working here, I have to respond to many emergency landing calls. ERAU is by FAR the safest flight school on the airfield. A certain flight school whose name I wont mention had 2 collisions/crash landings 3 days apart! But just do your homework and be a smart shopper for degree and flight programs.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!