Tan Flyr
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AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:49 am

Just heard that an AA MD 80 from DFW to EWR made an emergency landing at JFK with no nose gear.
 
pshifrin
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:57 am

 
cmckeithen
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:42 am

This goes to show all that the flight crew is HIGHLY trained in emergency situations. Though the passengers onboard were concerned when I assume, the captain came over the pa and said "Folks we are getting a warning light that is telling us the nose landing gear is not extended....FA's prepare the cabin for a rough landing." I also assume the FA's told the pax's to "brace, brace, brace" right before touchdown and went through the proper emergency landing procedures with them.

Any way, those pax's were never in any danger. Just a rough landing.
 
tekelberry
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:47 am

What a nightmare for the mechanics who have to get that baby off the runway and repaired.

Good thing everyone is safe.
 
dispatch
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:56 am

I must say, I LOVE that link Pshifrin provided:

captain received an instrument signal that the nose landing gear -- which includes the wheels

Had it NOT been an MD-80, it makes me wonder: WHAT IS INCLUDED IN THE NOSE GEAR........... Big grin

Peter
 
citationjet
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:48 am

I like the phrase.....
"came down on the tarmac, using the landing gear under the middle part of the aircraft"
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
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STT757
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:03 am

The flight was heading to EWR, they most likely diverted to JFK because of the large AA maintenance facility at JFK.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/wabc_090203_jfkplane.html
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
bigphilnyc
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:09 am

Anyone got registration number, runways, more info? Anythign else?>
Phil Derner Jr.
 
B777FA
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:22 am

Registration is N454AA MD-82
 
CALMSP
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:23 am

No actually they diverted to JFK due to the lenght of runways in EWR. No where near the size of JFK. So not diverted due to maintenance but rather length of runway.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:41 am

>>>No actually they diverted to JFK due to the lenght of runways in EWR. No where near the size of JFK. So not diverted due to maintenance but rather length of runway.

Yeah, that's what the article -said- but EWR's runway lengths are plenty long enough for a nosegear-up landing. No doubt in my mind they went to JFK due to AA's larger presence at JFK (as far as customer service) and MX facilities...

Now, to be nasty, they could have landed at EWR, closed a runway, and put CO's EWR hub operation into a big delay situation. Betcha CO is -real- glad they went to JFK...  Big grin
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Bobs89irocz
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:44 am

Hmm i wonder what the cause was?

Good do hear no one was hurt and everything was ok. Good idea on the pilots part to opt to the airport with the longer RW. If anyone could post the pilots names or have a way of finding out that would be great. I know of a lot of AA MD-80 pilots based out of DFW.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:05 am

>>>Good idea on the pilots part to opt to the airport with the longer RW.

When "non-emergency" situations like these come up, the captain is in communication with his dispatcher, and they jointly decide where the best place to put the aircraft with respect to both MX and customer service. They may even have time (fuel permitting) to try some trouble-shooting efforts before going somewhere.

I say "non-emergency" in the context that the aircraft didn't need to land -immediately- due to something much more urgent like a fire. (In that case, that captain wouldn't waste any time talking to anyone other ATC to get an ASAP full-blown emergency landing at the nearest suitable airport). Absent that level of urgency, and assuming proper fuel onboard and sufficient runway lengths, a flight like this with a gear problem could have really diverted and landed almost anywhere. Whatever the eventual destination, it would have been an "emergency" landing once they got there, but just for the landing, not getting to the airport itself...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Bobs89irocz
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:16 am

LOL....I think they call that an "emergancy landing"
 
727LOVER
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:29 am

Just wondering, do EWR, LGA, ISP, HPN ever get emergency landings, or do they all go to JFK? Does the aircraft look repairable?
Love Trumps Hate
 
cicadajet
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:34 am

I can remember a Continental DC-10 making an emergency landing at EWR a few years back..pretty serious problem it had, if I remember.

Also, a Fed Ex 747 - not sure how serious that was or wasn't...they had the trucks out waiting for it..

Tom
 
OPNLguy
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:39 am

>>>Just wondering, do EWR, LGA, ISP, HPN ever get emergency landings, or do they all go to JFK?

I doubt you'd see them at LGA and ISP, LGA due to runway length, and ISP due to the fact that not many folks fly there. HPN's runway is a litle on the short side. You'd more likely see a diversion like this in the NYC area go into JFK (as it did) or EWR (where it would have gone if it had been a CO MD80 instead of an AA MD80). Stewart (SWF) could have been an option too...


>>>Does the aircraft look repairable?

Absolutely! Some minor skin damage, but these things usually take only a day or two tp get back in service....
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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STT757
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:48 am

EWR's runways are 11,000-12,000 ft, no problem.

The main reason no doubt for the JFK deversion was the 14,000 ft runway AND the large AA maintenance facility at JFK.

If they had landed at EWR, they would have had to borrow hangar space from either CO or UAL. It would be alot cheaper for them to just go to JFK, since there was nothing wrong with the "flight" aspects of the aircraft that would keep them from diverting to JFK.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
bigphilnyc
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:06 am

What about damage to the runway? Didn't that thing dig into the ground at all?
Phil Derner Jr.
 
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:22 am

I think the diversion was because of runway choice rather than runway length. JFK has four runways, so if lands on one, they couldn't easily close it and use the other two or three. I believe the plane landed on 4R, which they were using this moring. The 4's were later closed and they switched to the 31's.

If they landed at EWR, they probably would have had to close one of the runways, which would have caused more delays than if they switched to JFK.
 
cancidas
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:50 am

i was always told by instructors, in the event of someting like that, go to an airport that was best equiped to handle the situation. what runway did they land on? 13R/31L?

what i found annoying is that the media kept calling it a crash landing. it was not. i seriously hate how the media miss-labels everything!
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
FDXmech
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:02 am

>>>What a nightmare for the mechanics who have to get that baby off the runway and repaired.<<<

Actually a nightmare for some DFW mechanics sweating out the cause of this incident.

You're only as good as your last departure.
 
Bobs89irocz
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:12 am

Could have been some of those mechanics that always sleep through there shift instead of doing a CORRECT B-check, or maybe it was no ones fault it was just one of those things that just happens. Oh well, hope no one looses there job over it.
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:20 am

In a sense, it is a "crash-landing", but not the way the media portrays it. Crash Landing can deal from UA 232 to a flight without Nose-Gear.

Most, if not all aircraft that have Nose Gear Failures are returned to service within 3-4 weeks if that is all that was wrong. They disassemble the piece, repair it, repaint it, install the piece, and voila. I suggest you do some research on N2417F (Now N919AT) that made an emergency landing. They has N2417F back in service in 2 weeks, and I flew on it as N919AT in March 2003.
Puhdiddle
 
mirrodie
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:20 am

727 lover, I did witness once, an emergency landing at ISP.

It was a biplane landing and I have a photo of this with a 737 landing in the background.

Whilse I am not sure if you mean ANY emergency landing vs one with an airliner, the answer is yes, ISP has had emergency landings in the past.

regards, Mirrodie
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
bigphilnyc
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:12 am

There was an AirTran 717 that had an emergency landing at LGA after electrical problems this year.
Phil Derner Jr.
 
tu154m
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:34 am

TYPICAL LONG BEACH SEWER PIPE!!!!!!!!!!!! Seriously.......glad everyone is OK!!!
S
CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
 
mikephotos
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:06 pm

what runway did they land on? 13R/31L?

4L

Mike
 
bigphilnyc
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:46 pm

Anyone who saw the video of this on the news...guess who got that!!

Ok, it wasn't me. But that would be REALLY cool if I did. DAMN!
Phil Derner Jr.
 
Okie
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:58 pm

I think they have had some minor problems with the splash deflector on the MD-80 series on the front gear. I think when it breaks it causes the gear to get hung up on the doors. I just wonder if the plane had recently been in the mid west this weekend and was damaged with all the rain in that area sometime earlier in the day or weekend.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:02 pm

"TYPICAL LONG BEACH SEWER PIPE!!!!!!!!!!!! "

The MD-80 is the safest aircraft in its class, and second only to the saab 240 in rate of incidents.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
B6FA4ever
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:29 pm

I saw the AA MD-80 on the runway still at 2:15 p Local time when i was taking off from JFK. was on the runway that is parallel to terminal 4. it was crazy to see in real life a belly type landing (only seen it on the news on tv). Thank god everyone was safe. there were about 3 fire trucks around the plane by the time i took off. again, glad to hear everyone was ok...and CONGRATS to the crew for a job well done!
 
artsyman
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:36 pm

I can remember a Continental DC-10 making an emergency landing at EWR a few years back..pretty serious problem it had, if I remember.
**********************

Yes, from the reports I read it had an uncontained engine failure that pierced the fuselage, and sent fragments into another engine leaving the aircraft to perform the climbout on one engine. I know the flight was on the way to Brussels too.

The story I was told from a few on it, was that they more or less melted the one engine in getting the thing back on the ground in one peice.
 
BeltwayBandit
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:34 pm

LONG BEACH SEWER PIPE

I believe that this is a reference to how tough the airframe is, not a criticism.
 
pshifrin
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:49 pm

There is now a video report here: http://www.wnbc.com/traffic/2449540/detail.html

Amazingly, they correctly identified the type of aircraft.
 
prosa
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:52 pm

Whilse I am not sure if you mean ANY emergency landing vs one with an airliner, the answer is yes, ISP has had emergency landings in the past.

There was a Comair RJ from ATL that had some trouble at ISP a year or so ago. It had no steering control on the ground, and I believe the problem was known while it was still in the air. There was a big turnout of emergency vehicles, but everything turned out okay.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
E1FAIL
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:00 am

>>>Does the aircraft look repairable?

Absolutely! Some minor skin damage, but these things usually take only a day or two to get back in service....




It will be a little longer than that.
 
mikephotos
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:17 am

Amazingly, they correctly identified the type of aircraft.

Taken from the article:
"As a precaution, he elected to go to JKF, which has longer runways..."

Yeah, but they got the airport code wrong  Big grin

Mike

 
GroundStop
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:34 am

"There was an AirTran 717 that had an emergency landing at LGA"

Now, that case was not elective. The aircraft was already established on final approach when all electrical was lost. I remember being at work that night here in ATL and sending a ferry aircraft up there at around 2330. The ferry a/c brought the mechanics up to LGA and made out the EMO flight back in the morning.
 
FDXmech
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:40 am

>>>Most, if not all aircraft that have Nose Gear Failures are returned to service within 3-4 weeks if that is all that was wrong. They disassemble the piece, repair it, repaint it, install the piece, and voila.<<<

Very inaccurate, broad statement. Where do you come up with this? Actual airline maintenance experience on type, or any type?
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
prosa
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:58 am

Most, if not all aircraft that have Nose Gear Failures are returned to service within 3-4 weeks if that is all that was wrong. They disassemble the piece, repair it, repaint it, install the piece, and voila.

What about the HP A319 (or maybe A320) that had a nose gear failure at PHX several months ago? I believe it was a write-off.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
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modernArt
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:52 am

I was just speaking to an associate and he told me he got a call from a buddy who regularly commutes on this flight for work...and as fate would have it he was onboard when this incident happened.

He mentioned that his friend - a very frequent flyer - thought for sure that this was end. Not really much else to relay since all turned out fine. Pax did assume a crash-ready posture on approach.
 
Spacepope
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:15 am

The HP A-320 at PHX was indeed a writeoff. There was substantial damage to the forward fuselage structure hitting the runway when the gear unexpectedly collapse (as opposed to this MD-80, where thet pilots probably made some effort to ease the forward section down). The HP A-320 was parted out, and has been hauled away by truck.

T.J.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
mirrodie
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:15 am

I read about the incident in the local paper. It said it did a fly by EWR tower for visual inspection.

Is that accurate? If so, then how close to the tower would it have to go? Further more, if this occurred in the dark, would a flyby still occur?
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
Accidentally
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:33 pm

It is believed that the spray deflector prevented extension for whatever reason (dislodged or damaged).
Indianapolis, IN
 
E1FAIL
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:55 am

Most, if not all aircraft that have Nose Gear Failures are returned to service within 3-4 weeks if that is all that was wrong. They disassemble the piece, repair it, repaint it, install the piece, and voila. I suggest you do some research on N2417F (Now N919AT) that made an emergency landing. They has N2417F back in service in 2 weeks, and I flew on it as N919AT in March 2003.



454 was ferried to TUL at 10,000 and unpressurized. There is no time estimate for return to service.
 
aviaar
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Sat Sep 06, 2003 6:23 am

The father of one of my best friends was the captain of the plane at the time. The original route was DFW-EWR, but he chose to land at JFK for the longer runway. It's odd, I had asked him what they do in that exact situation just over a week before. Pretty cool guy and a great pilot- evident of this accident's safe ending.

[Edited 2003-09-05 23:31:03]
I'd rather be flying (real original)
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Sat Sep 06, 2003 6:36 am

I say "non-emergency" in the context that the aircraft didn't need to land -immediately- due to something much more urgent like a fire.

Certainly a "non-normal" event then  Big grin

In picking diversion fields, AA (and I'm sure everyone else) gives flight crews an order of diversion airports to try and use, and I think it goes something like this (I know I've gotta be leaving stuff out and getting some particulars wrong but here's the jist):

1. Line base with maintenance
2. Line base without maintenance
3. Off-line with maintenance staff
4. Other off-line

You can also bet too that the flight crew was in touch with Dispatch at all times via ACARS and otherwise, making the decision with them.

I'd say the PR director for AA just probably spun the change in destination to downplay the whole thing...a wise decision.

Kudos to the great effort by all.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
Bobs89irocz
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Sat Sep 06, 2003 6:40 am

Aviaar- Does your friends dad live in the DFW area? If so send me an email to www.bobs89irocz@aol.com

I use to live there and know A LOT of AA captains that fly the MD-80, i would like to see if i know him. Thanks

Bobby

[Edited 2003-09-05 23:42:08]
 
E1FAIL
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RE: AA MD-80 At JFK- No Nose Gear

Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:04 am

Could have been some of those mechanics that always sleep through there shift instead of doing a CORRECT B-check, or maybe it was no ones fault it was just one of those things that just happens. Oh well, hope no one looses there job over it.


I went through my old records and....Oh my God, I did a B check task on 454!I must have missed something because it is more important to me to sleep than to do the task correctly and keep my job and license so that I can feed my kids.