triley1057
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New CO International Routes?

Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:08 am

Terminal E at IAH is now partly open. It is currently just being used for domestic flights but in 2005 it will become CO's international gateway once the immigration building is complete. The original plan was to build the terminal so CO could start a significant international expansion from IAH. I know times have changed completely since the original plans but does anyone know what new routes are possibly in the future for CO from IAH? I have heard a lot of rumors about CO / LIRF), Italy">FCO, MAD, and FRA and also an increase of existing services. Does anyone have any more information or thoughts regarding this matter or will we not see any expansion due to the current downturn?
 
CALMSP
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:37 am

I heard that years back we had the rights to fly IAH-MAD, after we requested that CO receive permission rather than IB. I would definetly think MAD might be next in line, possibly to link up the Spanish with Latin America, it is a through flt right now. IAH-EWR-MAD as flt 62 and return as flt 63. Who knows maybe we'll add another CDG flt with the SKY TEAM alliance. I guess Italy could also be it. Altough I think FRA would be great. Although I would like to see us open DUS, STN back up. I do know they continue to look at new Mexico destinations, so most of the new International service will obviously be Mexico flts. Maybe SDQ?, STI opening back up, although "head honchos" have often said they will not fly back in there anytime in the near future. Maybe EZE if economy starts to shape back up. Liberia, Costa Rica?
 
pzurita1
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:37 am

CO announced will start servicing QTO (Querétaro, Mexico) by October.

PZ
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
CALMSP
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:41 am

I heard that as well, but havent seen any press on it. We are still suppose to fly to MLM yet this year. Also POS out of EWR though.
 
artsyman
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:51 am

There will be a new mid-european route starting late this year out of EWR. While it hasn't been added into scheduling, it has been added into the 777 aircraft distribution. I have no idea what the city will be, but it will be a 777 flight and it is approx mid euro flight hours.

Jeremy
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:56 am

There will be no mid-European routing starting later this year. The year is 2/3 over and airlines don't start new flights to Europe in fall, when traffic is light and drops off considerably. New routes are launched in the Spring, as CO did with the EWR-GVA route (March 2003) or in the late spring or early summer. I don't see much in the way of new international routes any time soon on the long-haul front.

ContinentalEWR
 
CALMSP
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:10 pm

I'll tell ya man, BOM is on the horizon possibly. Inflight has been quoted as well as flying EWR-BOM as well as some MGMT personnel. This came out about a year and a half ago. Inflight has stated that it is coming in DEC.'
Who knows.
 
Sam the Lab
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:53 pm

I hope this does sound too far fetched. If the infamous Shannon stop over was removed in Ireland sometime soon now that the European Union are to take over the negotiations between the U.S. and Europe on bilaterals would there ever be a chance of a Continental service from EWR to Cork on the Irish south coast operated by either a 737-700 if wingleted or a 757-200? Would accept there is no likelihood of this happening in time for next summer but maybe year 2005? Many thanks!
 
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STT757
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:55 pm

Cork service from EWR would be great, most likely a 757.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
artsyman
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:08 pm

ContinentalEWR, I assure you it is in the flight flow charts, so it is coming whether it is standard to add them at this time of year or not. The only thing that is a variable in what I said in the original post is that I "believe" it to be mid Europe due to the block times, but it is possible it is not to there at all, but it is a 777 route.
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:31 am

Perhaps EWR-LHR (CO) since UA is giving up the route 24Oct03?
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
JAL777
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:33 am

CO can't fly into Heathrow.
 
cedarjet
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:41 am

If there's a central European route being added, could it be Vienna?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
JAL777
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:48 am

Maybe Barcelona???

 
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tjwgrr
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:50 am

Or perhaps the once planned and then shelved Moscow service?
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
gkirk
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:58 am

STN coming back? EDI or NCL being started sometime in the next few years?
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tommy767
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:01 am

What about istanbul, budapest, Warsaw, or Prague? I suppose those routes do not generate enough people.
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cedarjet
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:05 am

Actually Moscow would be a real good one - huge amount of traffic there, Moscow is one of the biggest cities in the world, and there's plenty of business between there and NYC since the Russians kicked the Italians arse in certain areas of business.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
JAL777
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:08 am

@ Cedarjet

The trash business is still very much Italian.  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up
 
pzurita1
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:10 am

CALMSP:

I thought CO was already flying to MLM. I mean, I am not sure, but I heard it a long time ago, so I expected they would be flying by now... If they are not, then there is no reason to think QTO will happen soon.

PZ
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
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STT757
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:18 am

If it's new 777 flying then it's not going to be New Castle, Edinburgh, Stansted or Barcelona. Those will most likely be added at some point, but with 757s and 767s.

My guess would be..

The return of the second daily Tel Aviv flight or..

Moscow,

Or Dehli.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
CALMSP
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:38 am

Where does everyone keep getting hte idea that an INDIA flt would be Dehli, it has never been even rumored, BOM has been on the watch, and even inflight has been told of BOM.
 
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STT757
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:44 am

"it has never been even rumored"

Ha!

That's the biggest CO rumor since EWR-HKG, or CO taking over AS a couple years back.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
MAH4546
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:56 am

Continental ended Santiago/STI? When? It is still in the schedules. To you mean Santiago de Chile/SCL?

[Edited 2003-09-03 23:01:48]
a.
 
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STT757
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:01 am

Santiago Chile or Dominican Republic, CO is still flying to Santiago Dominican Republic but they dropped the EWR-Santiago Chile flight 2 years ago.
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JOSEMEX
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:07 am


Pedro,

>>thought CO was already flying to MLM. I mean, I am not sure, but I heard it a long time ago, so I expected they would be flying by now... If they are not, then there is no reason to think QTO will happen soon<<

CO began flying IAH-MLM effective June 12, 2003:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030612/dath018_1.html
 
dutchjet
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 7:02 am

My guess would be that the ""mystery" EWR-Europe 777 flight would be a service upgrade on an existing route, say EWR-CO / LIRF), Italy">FCO or EWR-FRA, and the aircraft made available could open up a new route.....I do not think that CO would open a new route with their largest aircraft.

Out of Newark: a second Tel Aviv 777 flight (operated a couple of years ago), Athens (in time for the Olympics?), Moscow, a city in Scandanvia (nothing specific) and/or Munich (operated many years ago with DC10s) are all possibilities with 767 aircraft, and the return to STN (which was beginning to do OK before it was dropped due to the post 9/11 cutbacks) and/or a new route to Newcastle are possible with the 757. To South America, there may be an upgrading of the service to Brazil, and CO stated it would like to return to SCL when the time is right. An EWR-Osaka flight was considered a couple of years ago, but it seems unlikely now.

Out of Houston: IAH-MAD, to connect with CO's large central/latin american network was considered a front runner, but when the KLM deal came to be, IAH-AMS was started instead. With the new rules concerning transiting the US, I think CO will hold off with IAH-MAD until that situation is sorted out (it will be, I think, in a short amount of time). IAH-FRA is the other possibility to Europe, an interesting route since there is the potential of a lot of business traffic. Additional service to South America is a possibility as well, likely with 757s, to medium range cities in Colombia or Ecuador or maybe Caracas (an oil-shuttle flight?).

There is also a rumor floating around that a CLE-AMS flight will materialize as the CO/KL alliance matures, which route will be a 757 service.

These are all rumors......and some or none may occur, CO is being very conservative in its long-haul expansion, a new route requires a huge investment, but additional services are under consideration.

 
MAH4546
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 7:39 am

Continetal has always wanted to serve Medellin, Colombia from Houston. Medellin is a huge oil capital. However, routes to Colombia are extremely difficult to get and Continental has never been able to secure the route authority. American started trying to get Medellin in 1991, and it was not until 2002 that Colombia said okay, although they also made American give up it's rights to Barranquilla. Colombia enjoys allow Avianca to have monopolies to key markets to the US like Barranquilla and Cartagena, which AA would love to get into/back into, but can't.
a.
 
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airzim
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 7:51 am

In addition to EWR-DEL, I had also heard EWR-IST was on drawing board.
 
cba
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:04 am

EWR/IAH - DXB would also be a possibility.
 
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STT757
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:28 am

"However, routes to Colombia are extremely difficult to get and Continental has never been able to secure the route authority"

CO briefly (early-Mid-1990s) flew from IAH to both Barranquila and Cali, one flight was routed through Panama City the other through San Jose Costa Rica.

I think eventually they will return, since the 737-700 is better suited for the route than the 727 they were previously used on the route.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
triley1057
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:37 pm

CO already flies to Caracas from IAH, I think from EWR too but I am not sure. I would really like to see some more cities in South America as well as some more longhauls to East Asia from IAH. Maybe KIX, PEK, HKG, or TPE but I don't think that will be happening any time soon. What are the chances of them flying somewhere in the Dominican Republic from IAH?
 
CALMSP
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:49 pm

I'm rather surprised that we dont fly IAH-SDQ. Maybe that could be a route soon. The IAH-SJU flt always seem to be rather full. Not sure if they are good enough "classes" where they are making money on it though. Probably though.
I wonder if we'll ever open up EWR-KIX again. I wish we would open up some on the west coast. That would be great!
 
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airzim
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:31 am

Judging from the talk out of 1600 Smith St. it seems that the company intends to focus on the top O&D markets from New York. Hence the HKG nonstop. My guess is that's why India has been part of the recent focus. It is not served nonstop from NYC or the US for that matter. It has a massive traffic contingent. I would assume a fair amount of J traffic as I have flown to India several times in J class and connecting through FRA or LHR is a real pain and a very long day.

Plus Gordon has said that they are happy with the NW relationship and would prefer to send connections through NW's NRT hub to Asia's secondary cities.

Using that as a basis it stands to reason that EWR-JNB, EWR-Scandinavia (FBU/ARN/CPH), EWR-ATH, EWR-SVO, EWR-BCN, EWR-IST, EWR-VIE, EWR-SIN, EWR-BJS, EWR-ICN are all in play. Reality is maybe one will make the cut. CO just doesn't have the fleet to support major expansion nor wants to. Corporate contracts are going to be crucial as they were with the IAH-AMS launch with Schlumberger, and EWR-GVA with the I think some NJ based pharmaceuticals. EWR-DXB could also be a possibility especially since EK and CO have a great relationship of feeding traffic to one another especially on the IAH-LGW-DXB flights.

I don't know completely speculation on my part. I never guessed HKG or TLV when they launched them so in the end who knows.
 
prosa
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:49 am

Medellin is a huge oil capital.

Among other things  Smokin cool
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
prosa
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:53 am

I had also heard EWR-IST was on drawing board.

DL and TK already have nonstop JFK-IST service. I find it hard to imagine that there would be enough demand to support a flight from EWR. Few American tourists are going near Turkey these days, and the two existing flights probably are sufficient for whatever business demand may exist.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
cba
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:58 am

I'm surprised that CO doesnt serve SCL or EZE from IAH. Those would make two nice additions to CO's Latin American service.
 
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STT757
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:12 am

EWR is in the unique postion of being able to draw NYC O&D traffic as well as support it's own, with the population of North Jersey at around 5-7 Million and very diverse cultures it could support flights to places like Portugal (two daily flights from EWR, none from JFK) because of it's large ethnic population.

There's a substantial population of Greeks and Turks in New Jersey that CO could tap from EWR, plus NYC and Eastern Pennsylvania (Bucks, Montgomery County).

Then there are all the domestic connections CO has at EWR, which allows it to further fill it's flights.

As for "new" international routes, they could easily add more. CO is not utilizing their fleet fully, lots of 767s spend much of the day parked on hard stand at EWR. Also 767s are operating flights from Guam to Japan (NRT,KIX, Nagoya etc).

Some "tweaking" would probably allow CO to start 2-3 new European routes from EWR without having to aquire additional aircraft, just better utilization and perhaps moving those Guam 767s back East (West?).

Just prior to 9-11 whenever Gordon Bethune would speak about the EWR expansion project (Global Gateway) he would mention CO was looking at expanding to 25 trans-Atlantic routes from EWR, he never mentioned requiring further aircraft orders to accomplish this.

Most likely some of those new routes would be operated with 757s like..

Barcelona, New Castle, Edinburgh etc..

We shall see what happens, one rumor which is recent (within the last couple months) that came from a CO pilot on these forums was that CO was looking to aquire 8 767-300s, they would open up new routes as well as free up 767-200s to replace some 757 flights to Europe as well as allow some 767-200s to operate trans-cons from EWR.

EWR-Dubai is another "rumored" route, it would be in conjunction with Emirates who would operate Dubai-JFK and CO would fly EWR-Dubai.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
klwright69
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Fri Sep 05, 2003 8:37 am

EZE is out of the question indefinitely I suspect. After years of haggling for EWR-EZE authority, CO finally got the authority from EWR. Then they never started the route cause Argentina's economy was a wreck... DL boldly announced they were committed to making their route from ATL route work out, then withdrew from the market after all the heavy losses. AA has a lock on that market, and UA to a lesser degree. Ironically DL desired CO's authority when they decided not use it, and they ended up dropping service completely themselves!

IST would be a great one. I have been to Turkey several times over the summer and the loads are PACKED (don't know about yields though). I am unsure about loads the rest of the year. Turkey is moslem, but I am not sure if most people really identify it being dangerous because it is by Europe (and partly on Europe).

SVO would be a good as well. I would love to see WAW, CAI (no more US carriers there afer DL and TW) or a Scandinavian city.

STT757, it is only a small thing, but one correction. Early in the 90's CO did go to Cali and Barranquilla with the 727. However the flights were routed through SJO to both cities. 3 times a week continuing to Baranquilla and 4 to Cali. The flights to PTY went on to either GYE or UIO, not to anywhere in Colombia. UIO was 3 times a week and GYE four times a week. I learned the schedule very well after being bumped in PTY coming from UIO, and being bumped in SJO from Cali!

I enjoy speculating on this topic. Aboslutely no one saw CO starting TLV or HKG from EWR, it was a surprise to everyone. But both turned out to be brilliant choices I think.
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:18 am

All the talk of IST, ATH, SVO, etc etc is well and good but unless Continental can secure some new route authorities to these cities, service to these places is highly unlikely. Last time I checked, only Turkey was an open skies country among these, and Continental held route authorities to neither ATH nor SVO. Now, maybe that's changed, but generally, we would hear about an application being put in with DOT.

These markets are also fairly limited in size and it would seem that the incumbents, in this case Delta and their respective home carriers, are filling the demand adequately with current service. I can't see Continental trying to take on established incumbents (and a new alliance partner in this case) in this revenue environment.

Continental's European network is second in scope only to Delta's, and given the state of the transatlantic market, it seems to me that it would be wise for CO to follow DL's lead and embrace the idea of combining an extensive offering of nonstops with a strong alliance hub operation with either AF at CDG, or KL at AMS.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:31 am

DeltaSFO,

Continental already has started building a strong partnership with alliance carriers, particularly KLM. CO offers onward connections from AMS to dozens of cities through KLM.

Nothing wrong with being second fiddle to Delta. Continental overall has a much better product and more consistent revenue on flights to Europe because it has the ability to tinker with aircraft to match demand. Delta can't. It is either feast or famine.

CO does very well out of Newark. The hub is hugely profitable and capitalizes on the world's largest O&D market.
 
MAH4546
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:50 am

CO does very well out of Newark. The hub is hugely profitable and capitalizes on the world's largest O&D market.

I thought Tokyo was the world's largest O&D market, no?
a.
 
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STT757
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:21 am

"Delta's, and given the state of the transatlantic market, it seems to me that it would be wise for CO to follow DL's lead and embrace the idea of combining an extensive offering of nonstops with a strong alliance hub operation with either AF at CDG, or KL at AMS"

To a certain extent they will, however CO has the unique advantage of having a large hub that also is a strategic gateway to Europe. CO's EWR hub is the equivilant of a European hub, instead of funneling passengers through say CDG or AMS to reach places like Tel Aviv, Birmingham UK, Geneva etc they can fly directly there themselved because of both the strong O&D market in NYC/NJ as well as their strong network of connections from EWR.

CO can launch flights to smaller secondary markets in Europe from EWR, bypassing the 4 mega European hubs (LHR, CDG, AMS, FRA). It makes sense since it's better for US travelers heading to Europe to go from say STL-EWR-Geneva then it is for them to go STL-DTW-AMS-GEN.

CO will continue to exploit this advantage in the future with possibly more 757s and perhaps one day 737NGs, CO and LH have discovered the advantages of using smaller longer range narrow bodies to fly from EWR to secondary European airports. This trend most likely will continue, an airline like DL cannot immitate this because even though they have a large European route network from JFK they have very poor connections. Their JFK-European flights depend almost entirely on O&D traffic.

There vast European route network from ATL has the opposite problem, huge connection base but low O&D traffic.

CO at EWR has both a high amount of connections as well as strong O&D traffic base to support their network, something DL and NWA lack and thus end up feeding their European partners. CO has done quite well for themselves without European partners, however having a partnership with KLM and AF would not hurt and would fill some more flights to AMS and CDG.

CO at EWR offers the advantages of offering a "single" connection from secondary markets in the US (Tulsa, Des Moines, Hunstville, Oklahoma City etc) to secondary markets in Europe (Geneva, Birmingham UK, etc.).
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
flyguy1
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:44 am

Actually DL has been adding more feeder flights to its JFK operations lately. Over the last few months services to CMH, IND, BNA, STL, and JAX have been added. DFW will also be reinstated, along with another LAX flight.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
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STT757
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:54 am

"Actually DL has been adding more feeder flights to its JFK operations lately. Over the last few months services to CMH, IND, BNA, STL, and JAX have been added. DFW will also be reinstated, along with another LAX flight "

They have a LOOOng way to go, like adding more than one flight to Chicago.

And they have twice (if not three times) more flights from EWR to ATL than they do from JFK to ATL.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
flyguy1
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:01 am

True, CO does have a nice operation at EWR. JFK does not require the domestic feed for its International flights, that EWR does. FYI, DL has 10x daily ATL-JFK flights, not to shabby.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
N670UW
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:05 am

JFK does not require the domestic feed for its International flights, that EWR does

Yes, but if DL had a good feed (like a true hub) at JFK, the international operation could be endless.
 
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STT757
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:11 am

"DL has 10x daily ATL-JFK flights, not to shabby"

Yeah but how many of those are CRJs?

CO flies 9 daily 737-500s from EWR-ATL.

"JFK does not require the domestic feed for its International flights, that EWR does"

Try telling that to TWA, PAn Am and later AA and DL.

TWA tried to merge with CO back in '92 to move their JFK International flights to EWR to tap CO's hub, DL has tried to merge with CO on three separate occasions. One of the benefits DL was looking for was to move their JFK international routes to EWR.

AA "was" planning on making their new mega terminal a bigger domestic/Internation connecting point, that project has now been pushed back to completion '07 (at the earliest) however scaled down (less gates).

Jetblues growth at JFK has actually hurt the airports chances of ever developing a true hub with domestic and International Connections similar to CO's EWR hub, B6 have trashed domestic yields for the majors so much at JFK that the majors (DL) can only utilize RJs for growth.

AA has seemingly given up on all short haul domestic flights (especially RJs) out of JFK since B6 has developed, gone are their Eagle flights to Buffalo, Albany, Rochester, Syracuse, Manchester, Providence, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Hartford etc.. All they have left is Montreal, BOS and DCA.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
flyguy1
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RE: New CO International Routes?

Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:25 am

STT:
Maybe the PA should close JFK, and force everyone to use EWR  Insane
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prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: New CO International Routes?

Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:26 am

CO at EWR has both a high amount of connections as well as strong O&D traffic base to support their network, something DL and NWA lack and thus end up feeding their European partners.

Post-9/11 fear of flying has hit New York's O&D market harder than anywhere else in the nation. I't might recover in time, but for the foreseeable future NY/NJ is less of an O&D market than it was two years ago.

"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"

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