CanadaEH
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Air Canada Brings Top Customers To Choose New A/c

Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:23 am

Air Canada brings in top customers to help choose new jets

Nicolas Van Praet
CanWest News Service


MONTREAL - Air Canada, now shopping for jets with its commercial partners, will hold a one-day show-and-tell session with four aircraft manufacturers at Montreal's Dorval airport headquarters on Sept. 11.

Several of the airline's elite frequent-flyer customers as well as corporate clients have been invited to check out the planes and provide comments, said Air Canada official Isabelle Arthur.

Some top customers claimed the airline, now in bankruptcy protection and still losing money, had offered to pay their way to Montreal on that day and spring for a hotel room. Arthur said Air Canada "isn't providing that level of detail" about the event.

"When you look at the investment that we will be making with the acquisition of these aircraft, it's important that we get feedback from the different stakeholders," Arthur said. "It's just one part of the selection process."

Bombardier Inc. will show Air Canada its 700 and 900 series regional jets. Airbus will fly in an A318. Embraer will present its 170, although Arthur said Air Canada is also considering the Brazilian plane maker's 190, which is still being developed.

In a potential sign of just how badly it wants and needs the Air Canada order in the weak aircraft market, Boeing, which has already brought its 717 to Dorval for viewing, will bring the plane back again.

Analysts expect the fight between manufacturers for the contract will be fierce, with plane makers weighing what's better: a sale at a steeply discounted price or no sale at all.

Montreal-based Air Canada and its Star Alliance partners Lufthansa, SAS and Austrian Airlines are teaming up to make a joint purchase of up to 200 planes that could be worth $9 billion US. Air Canada has so far obtained $1.3 billion in financing from General Electric Co.'s aircraft leasing unit, allowing it to buy 43 jets.

Air Canada is changing its fleet by getting rid of some of its larger planes to make more use of smaller jets typically carrying between 70 and 110 passengers.

Arthur said the airline will not make a purchase commitment until it adopts its restructuring plan, expected by the end of the year.

Smaller aircraft provide that because they are deployable in any number as opposed to larger aircraft, which sometimes fly with rows of empty seats.

Air Canada has not placed any orders yet and has given no delivery times.

Arthur said the airline will not make a commitment until it adopts its plan of restructuring. That is expected by the end of the year.
EH.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Air Canada Brings Top Customers To Choose New A/c

Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:34 am

Well it is good to get input, tho unless you are an aircraft buff do you really care what plane you are flying on? Most people, Joe Q traveling public do not know the difference between a 737 and 777.

What they should look at is the best price they can get for the planes that fit there needs as a company.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Canada Brings Top Customers To Choose New A/c

Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:24 am

What a load of PR nonsense. Most customers don't know a 717 from an A321. This is just window dressing.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Canada Brings Top Customers To Choose New A/c

Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:23 pm

Neil, you mean you weren't invited???
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
Cessnapimp
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RE: Air Canada Brings Top Customers To Choose New A/c

Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:32 pm

The subjects will look at the 318's fancy interior, then AirTran's interior, will chose the 318. AC will chose the 717. If it runs a chance of keeping/calling back a few FF's, sure, go ahead! Make the PR move.

I think it's an original way of telling a customer you care... making him believe that he/she has a say in the next fleet decision. As long as this whole thing doesn't cost too much. Seat fabric taste test anyone?

Let's get real, visually, who wouldn't take an A318 over a 717 and a 170 over a CRJ900. I hope the decision will be made to buy the 900's and the 717 though.

My opinion is to give Long Beach and Mirabel workers a boost. The hell with performance/economics, each selection can be counterargued to death.
 
Qb001
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RE: Air Canada Brings Top Customers To Choose New A/c

Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:47 pm

I was to start a thread about that. I have a friend who works at Bombardier and he told me about this event.

What he told me though, is that AC will not be the only airlines there that day; all Star Alliance members interested in the deal will be there as well.

He told me Bombardier strongly believes in its chances to get the deal, at least the 50 and 70 pax model. Financing is the problem, and the Canadian government is about to get involved.

BTW, I also told him about the rumor that Southwest is looking for RJs. He told me, tongue in cheek, that he didn't know about that. I tortured him as much as I was able to in order to force him to admit that he knows something, but he's tougher than I thought...
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
planemaker
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RE: Air Canada Brings Top Customers To Choose New A/c

Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:55 pm

The assembled aircraft at YUL on September 11th will make quite an interesting photo. Bombardier won't be the only one playing the "home side" card. Read below...

BOEING SEEKING TO LAND AIR CANADA JET DEAL

Boeing Co. says it will play the made-in-Canada card as it tries to land a multibillion-dollar order for its 100-seat jet from Air Canada and three other carriers.

Air Canada is planning to order 85 jets with between 70 and 110 seats after it emerges from bankruptcy protection. The airline is planning to submit a joint order with other Star Alliance partners for up to 200 jets.

One of the aircraft being considered is the Boeing 717. The wings for that model are manufactured at Boeing's Toronto plant. Boeing officials say they will make sure influential people know that an order for Boeing could preserve Canadian jobs.

"We will certainly make government officials aware of the connection," said Allan Dequetteville, Boeing's vice-president for Canada. "To the extent that can help our campaign, I think we will want to make sure they understand that there are more elements of the 717 made in Toronto than, say, the Embraer product."

Seattle-based Boeing is making a presentation next week at Air Canada's Montreal headquarters, as are officials from the other three aircraft manufacturers under consideration: Montreal-based Bombardier, Embraer SA of Brazil and Airbus Industrie of Europe.

Mr. DeQuetteville said that because Air Canada is a private company, Boeing can't directly tie promises of jobs to aircraft orders as it did when the airline was a Crown corporation. But he said Boeing will work to remind influential people in Ottawa that Bombardier isn't the only company that makes jets in Canada.

Boeing directly employs about 2,000 people in Canada, of which 300 work in Toronto. About three-quarters of the Toronto work force are involved in the 717 project.

"You can appreciate that right now the production rate is thinned out about as low as it can to keep the production line viable while we wait for the industry to recover," Mr. DeQuetteville said.

Air Canada recently sent invitations to some frequent fliers inviting them to Montreal for presentations next week from the four potential suppliers and to tour the four aircraft.

"The views of various stake holders including those of our most valued customers will form an important part of the selection process," Air Canada spokeswoman Laura Cooke said yesterday. Air Canada is planning to submit a joint bid with Germany's Lufthansa, Scandinavian group SAS, and Austrian Airlines in order to enhance its negotiating position.

Industry observers expect the joint order, valued at up to $9-billion (U.S.), to be split between two manufacturers.

The carriers have asked plane makers for proposals in the 70- to 120-seat range, which straddles the line between full-sized and regional jets. Air Canada has said it will use the smaller jets to improve frequency and to add service to new destinations.

A win for Boeing could even pave the way for a new, stretched version of its 717.

"It's an aircraft we're looking at building," said Jim Phillips, vice-president for Boeing's 717 program.

"But it will be driven by a customer or group of customers purchasing enough to make sense for the program to go forward."


Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Canada Brings Top Customers To Choose New A/c

Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:21 pm

Let's get real, visually, who wouldn't take an A318 over a 717 and a 170 over a CRJ900.

Exactly. Everyone would automatically pick the widest aisle. I have no doubt that this exercise will have absolutely no bearing on the final choice which will come down to financing.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Air Canada Brings Top Customers To Choose New A/c

Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:34 pm

I think right now the possibility exists that Embraer--if they play their cards right--could end up with orders out of the wazoo!  Smile

Already, Embraer has sold 100 Embraer 190's to JetBlue (B6). There is a good possibility of a combination Embraer 170/190 order for Star Alliance that could be as many as 200 planes, maybe well over 100 170/190 planes for a combined SkyTeam order now in discussion, a possible 60-80 plane 190 order for Southwest (WN), and even a possible 60-90 plane 190 order for Northwest (NW)!

If I were Embraer I'd start talking with places around the USA that could be used to do final assembly of Embraer 170/190 planes, because Embraer may have swerved into a potentially huge market niche that needs to be filled.  Smile
 
planemaker
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RE: Air Canada Brings Top Customers To Choose New A/c

Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:59 pm

I was surprised to find out (after checking the web sites) that the E170/190 series has a wider aisle than the 717 (by 3/4 of an inch - 19.75" vs 19"). The CRJ-700/900 brings up the rear with 16".

I agree with Yyz717 that financing will be the critical factor here, though... Embraer is the only airframer that can cover the 70-110 seat range. There is a link on the Embraer web site that leads to an interesting bit of propaganda:

www.ruleof70to110.com

Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
Alohaguy
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RE: Air Canada Brings Top Customers To Choose New A/c

Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:39 am

Window dressing? Absopositiveilyluetly!

I was something like one of those folks a few yesrs ago and AC had gone through that routine once before... But lets face it, unless these FF's have millions available to loan to AC to support their democratic majority opinion, the bean couters and marketers will decide with or without their opinion.

Ps.: If you were invited... Eat the caviar and drink the champagne! For heavens sake, don't be a saviour!
 
lymanm
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RE: Air Canada Brings Top Customers To Choose New A/c

Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:08 am

Oooooh, Cessnapimp, you HAVE to come over to YUL...so I can be your guest! No doubt you will have access...?
buhh bye
 
emiratesa345
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RE: Air Canada Brings Top Customers To Choose New A/c

Sat Sep 06, 2003 7:02 am

Well future Star Alliance member LOT Polish Airlines recently ordered a few new regional aircraft. 170's I think they were? Does anyone remember? Do you think this might affect their decision at all? I don't.

EmiratesA345  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
 
mel
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RE: Air Canada Brings Top Customers To Choose New

Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:07 am

Photos available here:

http://www.winnipegflyer.com/special.html

Air Tran arrived from ATL
Frontier arrived from DEN
NO URLS in signature
 
Cessnapimp
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RE: Air Canada Brings Top Customers To Choose New A/c

Thu Sep 11, 2003 11:06 am

Absolutely Lymanm!

... now if I can only remember what my employee number is...?  Laugh out loud

Man... that biatch is looong!



... but I like it though! Very sexy, beautiful lady. I can't wait to ride her.

I hear those new coffeemakers do 2.5 gals an hour, instead of the industry standard 2.23. Sweet. Ferrari red latches in the galley, Easy-click (tm) F/A seat belts, "Bitching about the union" soundproof curtains, quick detach fire extinguishers and extra wide oven handles. Guys, are you as excited as I am?
 Love  Love  Love

To whom does this CRJ belong to anyways?

[Edited 2003-09-11 04:08:07]
 
Goose
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RE: Air Canada Brings Top Customers To Choose New A/c

Thu Sep 11, 2003 11:09 am

Hah, Cessnapimp.... well done  Smile

... the damn baggage compartment door is still below the #1 engine. I hated doing the commando-crawl into those things from a belt loader in there, when I last worked on a CRJ - which was many moons ago.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Canada Brings Top Customers To Choose New A/c

Thu Sep 11, 2003 11:58 am

LOL Cessnapimp!!! How long did it take for you to come up with that?

MEL, thanks a lot for those pics, great work! If only I had passes, I'd be on my way to Montreal to have a look at these aircraft, take in some fine Montreal dining and nightlife, go to the Casino and lose some cash, and fly back ... on my non-existent passes of course.

Cessnapimp, it's about time they put in better f/a curtains eh? You can't bitch about the union, CEO, passengers, or even pass some gas without passengers knowing. It's truly unfair.  Sad  Big grin
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster