lga1011
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Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:36 pm

I think jetblue is a pretty good airline, but I just don't like the A-320, I don't trust it. I don't see why they are ordering Embraer when they can just get A318, 319 or 321 instead. I wonder if Jetblue would do better with the 757 just as Song is? The 757 is bigger, more seats, and longer range, what do you think?
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:39 pm

So youre saying you dont trust the A320, but then question why they dont order more from that series? The Embraer is smaller than the A318, and is better econmically, as the A318 doesnt make all that much economic sense compared to the A319 in most cases.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
AIR757200
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:42 pm


?

....Maybe WN needs some 757's?
 
lga1011
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:48 pm

Which is better the 757 or the A-320?
 
AIR757200
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:29 pm


Well, both aircraft have different missions.
 
B6FA4ever
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:07 pm

LGA1011: what exactly do u not trust about the A320?
 
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scbriml
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:08 pm

LGA1011, "...but I just don't like the A320. I just don't trust it."

You must be right, because Airbus has only sold 3050 of them so far  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
gkirk
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:03 pm

You dont trust the A320? Huh? Reasons please, as the A320 is a perfectly safe a/c



















Except that one time one went into the forest, and the other time one went into the sea.....
But apart from those (unless there's more), the A320 is extremly safe and comfortable, despite the noise of the engines  Smile
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
TriStar500
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:34 pm

And I thought this is going to be an interesting discussion with some good arguments.
Instead, it is just another "I think airline A should have gotten aircraft B instead of C because I have no really valuable and factual arguments for it".

Sorry, maybe I am too demanding.  Smile
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different

Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:34 pm





Well hell duhh, I dunno, but those numbskulls just keep ordering more of them and uh, duhh more people keep flying with them!


MH


come visit the south pacific
 
StarFlyer
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:43 pm

A very hypothetical thread...  Yawn
The A320s are the key to B6s success. They were chosen because overall they were the better product. When you make decisions in business you dont just go by "ummh - dont like this wont buy it" - you make decisions based on the numbers. And that's why in this case the A320 was chosen.
Just like there is plenty of cases were the 737 was ordered.  Smokin cool
Yours truly - StarFlyer
 
Guest

RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:51 pm

Why dont' we wait and see if JetBlue even survives 10 years.

Good grief. JetBoo is barely four and everyone thinks they are some kind of salvation. The airlines are begining to rebound, and when they do, we'll see about that 90% load factor.
 
BeltwayBandit
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:59 pm

The A320 gives Jetblue the ability to connect any two points in the Continental US. That is AMAZING flexibility for a narrowbody, and something that was unthinkable until recently.
 
Greg
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:17 pm

JetBlue had 737's in their business model.
Airbus beat Boeing in both price and delivery positions.

That is why, at the time, they were the better 'product'

Technology or efficiency had nothing to do with the decision. Both the 73NG's and 32X's are so close in actual seat mile cost that neither would ever be the clear winner. In actuality, B6's attempt to get Airbus to develop the 320.5 was to bring the cost in line with the business plan (737-800's would seat 12 more than the 320 in the current config.).

Cost per seat mile is lower for the 320's, because their depreciation is lower, because their acquisition cost is lower..... Full stop.

It was a shrewd decision and it's working very well for them. It could have just as easily have been 738's at B6

The aircraft itself is not 'key' to JetBlue's success. Only the yield in which you are able to fill them.
 
motech722
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:43 pm

LGA1011,

This does seem like an interesting thread, and could be a good question to ask of many airlines. I'm unsure why you "just don't like the A-320", wish you could explain a little more as to why that is, but nevertheless, it is interesting as to why airlines choose the aircraft they choose.

You also "wonder if Jetblue would do better with the 757 just as Song is?" That is a good question, but at the same time, is the B757 really the aircraft that JB needs? The B757 might seat more people, but would JetBlue be able to fill those extra seats? In addition, is the B757 right aircraft for the fleet at all? National tried to use a common fleet of B757s out of LAS, and it has since failed.

At the same time, perhaps the B737 would have been a better fleet for JB, but as Greg pointed out, "Airbus beat Boeing in both price and delivery positions", which is something an airline needs to consider when buying planes. I'm just guessing on this next item, but perhaps JB wanted to use a different aircraft than SWA.

As for the Embraer order, time will tell how that works out. I do think it is an interesting strategy to get your "own" regional jets instead of contracting with another airline to supply that service. At the same time, this order also goes against what JetBlue has marketed itself as, a single-type operator. It will be interesting to watch and see.

BoingGoingGone also makes a very good point, "Why don't we wait and see if JetBlue even survives 10 years." I understand that Jetblue has been doing very good financially, which has given them a good base to buy more planes and expand, but in some ways I'd be worried about this expansion. As history has shown, over-expansion too fast can spread an airline too thin. While JB was able to stay under the radar for a while, it is now having to compete more and more with the majors. Song is the combat force of Delta, perhaps once the airline industry straightens out, the competition will become more fierce.

There are many questions, many options, and going back to the first question of this thread, will the A320 be the right choice for the airline? Only time will tell.



 
gigneil
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different

Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:45 pm

I think jetblue is a pretty good airline, but I just don't like the A-320, I don't trust it.

Its hard to start an "interesting conversation" with a statement like this.

The only airliner I wouldn't trust is one in CI colors... and I think I have sufficient cause for concern.

N
 
Guest

RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:56 pm

Well originally jetBlue wanted 737-700's but Boeing said that they would not sell the plane to a start up airline, so jetBlue went to Airbus and the rest is history. I bet Boring, I mean Boeing is wishing they has sold jetBlue the planes in the first place. Just imagine the boost to the 737 program if that had happened.
 
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:59 pm

"Boeing said that they would not sell the plane to a start up airline, so jetBlue went to Airbus and the rest is history."

This is a policy that Boeing needs to get away from if they want to survive. They're unspoken policy is not to sell any aircraft to a start-up. This is a huge mistake and one Boeing better change if they hope to stay alive.
 
mikephotos
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Sat Sep 06, 2003 3:23 am

Just to add some fun, I think JetBlue and Southwest should get 757's..they look sweet  Smile (For those who haven't seen already)


JetBlue B757-200




Southwest B757-200



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Aaron747
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Sat Sep 06, 2003 3:37 am

Doing so would completely violate the parameters of their business plans.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Greg
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:13 am

How misleading.
Boeing never said 'no' to JetBlue.
They tendered a serious bid. But were outdone in price, delivery and training by Airbus.

Boeing won't sell to a startup? I'm interested in that. Do you have a reference?

Brgds.
 
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Richard28
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:24 am

LGA1011:

what do you not "trust" about the A320?

please explain.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:29 am

Oh God, not *that* again.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
lga1011
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:47 am

First I don't like european a/c, and I don't like a US Airline picking airbus instead of boeing, I think that is portrayal to your own country. At the beginning of the A-320s life the problem it had with the fly by wire system caused me not to believe in it. I also don't the idea of a pilot controlling an a/c with a joystick. I believe the 737, 757, 767, and the 777 or much better then the A320, 330, and 340.
 
Bobs89irocz
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:55 am

I to think the 757 would be "cool" if SW or JB ordered them but its not smart for what they are. SW has been around for a long time and are doing well. Jetblue like someone stated above has only been flying for a few years. Give them 10 and see where there at. I think its great to see two domestic airlines going head to head with two different aircraft types that compete with each other as well. As much as i love Boeing and there designs i believe Airbus is a better business to deal with. Look at all the "smart" sales they have made and taken from Boeing. If Boeing wouldn't be so up tight and just settle for a lower price Airbus wouldn't have been as much of a factor as they are now. Boeing has done this to themselves.

National Airlines didn't go under because they flew the 757's. That actually worked pretty good for them. LAS-ORD I know worked good for sure. But ultimately the fleet type is not the cause to an airline folding.

Lga1011- I do somewhat agree with you about the A320. I don't really trust it. I know they have sold A LOT of the type but IM not a fan of the Avionics set up and how the aircraft runs/operates. I don't know the systems of the A320 very well but from what I do know I don't like it and never will. Im not saying its not a good aircraft, im just saying its not what I like. It like comparing a Lamborghini Deoblo to a Ferrari Enzo. Both VERY sweet cars (A320-737) but they have there differences and i personally would go with the Ferrari, in this case the 737.
 
gigneil
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different

Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:56 am

portrayal

Portrayal?

Anyway... this is a free market economy. Airlines should be compelled to buy the best product for their needs at the best price, not stick to medieval ideas of patriotism. I'm sure you also think its great that foreign airlines buy Boeing... and that's of course not betraying their country, is it?

Companies don't have feelings. People do. People should be patriotic (within reason). Companies should serve their employees, stockholders, and customers. We're not a Communist state here.

The 777 is also fly by wire. I don't see why you like that?

Almost every single Airbus pilot, even the american ones, have transitioned from a Boeing type, and they almost unequivocally prefer the joystick. I don't know who you are or what you do, but unless you're a pilot, I don't see why you have any factual grounds to dislike the idea.

At the beginning of the 747's life, it had severe engine issues that cast doubt on the future of the product in general. Do you dislike them as well?

We all live on the planet together... and more of us should act like it.

N
 
lga1011
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Sat Sep 06, 2003 6:09 am

Gigneil - I know the 777 uses the fly by wire system but it never had a problem with the system but the A-320 had many problem at the beginning of it's life.
 
emiratesa345
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Sat Sep 06, 2003 6:10 am

Opinions are like a55hole5, everybody has one.

Lga1011,

Do you realize that the Boeing 777 is also equipped with fly-by-wire technology? It has been argued numerous times that the accident involving the A320, was caused by pilot error.

As for the joystick, I have spoken to many pilots who enjoy having it as it increases their leg room by a lot! It also allows for them to have a table for filling out paper work and eating meals. Sure, a Boeing pilot can also do this, but having the extra room must be nice.

I'm also curious as to what type of car you own? Is it Japanese or is it American? German maybe? I sure hope it is American, because that would be "portrayal to your own country," if it isn't.

EmiratesA345  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
 
Bobs89irocz
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Sat Sep 06, 2003 6:10 am

I agree with you alittle bit more, i HATE the fact that you have to fly the A320-30-40 with a joystick. I dont know if i could transition between the yoke to a joystick. However i dont think its "portrayal" if an airline buys an aircraft outside the country.

Look at the US government, they where going to buy 200 A300's and use them for tankers and AWAKS instead of useing the 762. I was so pissed about his because Boeing was hurting so much and the US wouldnt make an order to them (Boeings fault to im sure) but thankfully we did put the order to Boeing for the 300 762 last i herd for like 14.5 billion $ or something, can anyone confirm this for me?

That right there would KINDA be portrayal but not a us carrier buying an Airbus. I think every major us carrier uses an airbus of some sort except CO (which did have A300's at one time) and Delta (did have A310's at one time). I know AA is getting ride of there A300s before to long but still. UA has 200 or so Airbuses and USAir has a lot too. Its not portrayal, its business.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Sat Sep 06, 2003 6:11 am

Thank you for the reasoned response N. I was going to be a lot more harsh with the kid.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
CALMSP
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Sat Sep 06, 2003 6:35 am

They should have bought A318 instead of ERJ 170. Now they have to train new pilots and mechanics. The entire time of constantly making money they have been stating that they fly only one aircraft and only train mechanics on one type. Now they will start doing the opposite. Just like major carriers.
 
BCALPRIDE
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Sat Sep 06, 2003 6:45 am

I don't think that Boeing brushed JetBlue off because they were a start up?

It's only that Boeing wasn't willing to take the risk on a low price with a carrier that probably wouldn't make it (like several others in this dod-eat-dog industry), where as Airbus was.
 
Guest

RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Sat Sep 06, 2003 6:47 am

As a happy JetBlue crewmember let me add my two cents to this weeks debate.

1.) We're doing excellent. We had a 91.6% load factor for August.
2.) The EMB-190 will allow us to go into smaller markets more economically that the A318.
3.) Even if we did order the A318 there would have been cost to train pilots and mechanics. Remember the A318 has a different engine than the A320's we currently have. Thus, it makes it a different aircraft all together. True, we would have been able to train our pilots on the 318, but then again, there gonna be trained on the 190.
4.) I am 100% sure that our corporate officials, along with our planning department have done EXAUSTIVE research on both planes. Please give them some credit. A lot of our upper management came from the major's and know what NOT to do, and what we can do to be successful.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Sat Sep 06, 2003 7:18 am

Bobs89ircoz, "i HATE the fact that you have to fly the A320-30-40 with a joystick" Have you actually flown an Airbus with sidestick? Just curious if your opinion is based on experience.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
777236ER
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RE: Would Jetblue Do Ever Better With A Different A/c

Sat Sep 06, 2003 7:28 am

Ok enough:

por·tray·al ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pôr-trl, pr-)
n.
The act or process of depicting or portraying.
A representation or description.

be·tray ( P ) Pronunciation Key (b-tr)
tr.v. be·trayed, be·tray·ing, be·trays

To give aid or information to an enemy of; commit treason against: betray one's country.
To deliver into the hands of an enemy in violation of a trust or allegiance: betrayed Christ to the Romans.
To be false or disloyal to: betrayed their cause; betray one's better nature.
To divulge in a breach of confidence: betray a secret.
To make known unintentionally: Her hollow laugh betrayed her contempt for the idea.
To reveal against one's desire or will.
To lead astray; deceive. See Synonyms at deceive.


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