johnnybgoode
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Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sun Sep 07, 2003 9:20 pm

hey,

i just wanted to provide some facts on how LH wants to takeover LX. i know that this very topic has been discussed several times, but for those who are looking for some precise information at one glance, i just wanted to provide a short overview of what i think seems to be very interesting move of taking over another airline.


accoding to Reuters and other sources (NZZ), LH´s board might soon foward the following take over-plan to LX:

* LX must get another 500 million Swiss franc ($351.9 million) injection of capital from its shareholders

* in return, LH would promise to pay back 300 million francs to Swiss investors via profit-sharing or dividends and the other 200 million in the form of options on Lufthansa shares

* the options would be exercisable in 2010 and give Swiss shareholders a seven percent stake in Lufthansa, making them the biggest minority investors in LH

* as reported several times, LH would integrate LX into its own network and have operational control

* it would keep the LX brand and maintain Zurich as a hub in addition to its own Frankfurt and Munich hubs

* as an additional prerequisite for this deal, LX must found a company which is required to sell surplus aircraft of LX´ fleet

currently, LX' biggest shareholders are the Swiss federal government with a 20.4 percent stake, UBS with 10.4 percent, the canton of Zurich with 10.2 percent and Credit Suisse Group with 10 percent.

it remains unclear whether they would be willing to stump up additional money - especially before parliamentary elections next month - to follow up on the public/private rescue of a national airline after Swissair collapsed in 2001.

however, it does seem unlikely that those shareholders regard the mere membership of LX in oneworld as viable means to return LX to profitibality.

http://www.nzz.ch/2003/09/07/wi/page-newzzDKASL0J8-12
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030907/airlines_1.html

---

ok, anyone´s thoughts?

best regards
daniel


If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
StarFlyer
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sun Sep 07, 2003 9:36 pm

Keeping the brand and Zurich as a hub? Sounds like they are just saying that to calm the Swiss people, but to me both dont make sense.
Why keep a second corporate ID when LH's reputation is so much better and the marketing could be combined! Also the Zurich hub would really have to go as LH has just invested big money in MUC which is rather close.

Great for competition: The German, Austrian and Swiss national carriers will all be cooperating. Wonder if this is even going to get approval from the competition watchdogs.
Yours truly - StarFlyer
 
aviationmaster
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sun Sep 07, 2003 9:44 pm

If LH takes over SWISS, you can say goodbye to a Swiss national carrier within the next 5 years. On the brighter side, the Germans would be fighting over their own "Fluglärm". Big grin
 
Unique
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sun Sep 07, 2003 10:16 pm

Again I'm very astonished how much "details" are known to newspapers! Let's see what really is going to happen...
 
BAJMowiec
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sun Sep 07, 2003 10:20 pm

Hey,

I see possibilities here, if ''Lufa'' takes over LX, and that merger practically makes it one airline, then, like someone here said, AUA would chip in, and guess, what do you have then ? A big, really big all-Germanic airline, sort of like SAS, which incorporates Denmark , Sweden and Norway into one ! Any names for an airline like that ? Germania is taken ... It's just a thought, anyone else shares my view? Any comments?

Piotrek
 
RJ100
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sun Sep 07, 2003 10:33 pm

Strange, I have always thought that "NZZ am Sonntag" is the most reliable Sunday newspaper in Switzerland...so maybe this is going to happen!?

I still think that the Oneworld option is the better way to go. BA has slot problems in London and therefore would be more interested to keep a Swiss hub than Lufthansa that is promoting the Munich hub...

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
DoorsToManual
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sun Sep 07, 2003 10:38 pm

We are all living in interesting times!
 
mozart
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Some Confusion About UK Charter Cos...

Sun Sep 07, 2003 11:03 pm

I don't believe the "Germanic-equivalent-of-SAS" solution where OS, LX and LH merge. There is a cultural issue: the Scandinavians get on with each other, whereas the Swiss and the Austrians have "mixed feelings" to say the least about Germans. Lufthansa would be considered a German takeover and thus resented, especially in Switzerland. It is as if the US took over Mexico.
 
UA 777
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sun Sep 07, 2003 11:38 pm

BAJMowiec: I see possibilities here, if ''Lufa'' takes over LX, and that merger practically makes it one airline, then, like someone here said, AUA would chip in, and guess, what do you have then ? A big, really big all-Germanic airline, sort of like SAS, which incorporates Denmark , Sweden and Norway into one ! Any names for an airline like that ? Germania is taken ... It's just a thought, anyone else shares my view? Any comments?

I disagree with you because I think it would be much wiser for LH to not let LX or OS disappear but make them a part of their network. They did the same with Air Dolomiti and it seems to be going very well. An independant product does not necessarily take away market share from LH but might open new markets for them.

regards
 
RJ100
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sun Sep 07, 2003 11:45 pm

Yes, but Air Dolomiti is more or less a feeder for Lufthansa while Swiss has its own route network.

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
CPH-R
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sun Sep 07, 2003 11:54 pm

One has to ask the questions: How big is LX's route network compared to LH's? It seems to me that LH's route network is that much bigger than LX's - and that if Lufti did take over LX, it would become a sort of feeder, where LX would bring passengers to the ZRH hub and then feed it on to FRA og MUC. Perhaps with a PrivatAir operation or two to cater for the business traffic going to/from Switzerland.
 
Andreas
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sun Sep 07, 2003 11:54 pm

If I remember correctly, the oneworld solution means a shareholding of BA and then membership in Oneworld...what would one expect to gain from such a solution?
Some sort of independence for a Swiss national carrier?

Forget it, Swiss tried twice and screwed it up royally, so there are things now to be taken into account that have nothing to do with national feelings.
Swiss government needs a solution, and a quick one, Swiss on a standalone basis is not able to survive, that is a given fact now, so they need alternatives, a clear, not-too-expensive alternative exit, because (correct me if I'm wrong) there are budget restraints in Switzerland, too, and the government is not willing to pay any more trials to keep Swiss alive.

The LH solution provides exactly that...a getaway from the problem, with one-off costs in an acceptable amount PLUS sort of an equity kicker, and a management solution that has repeatedly proven to be able to solve problems such as the ones of Swiss.

If BA really wants to grab Swiss, they need to offer the same as LH, just a little cheaper...that's it!

Merger? Why that, there's really no need, and merge what? LH takes over Swiss, period, OS is another case! Yet these are valuable brand names that one should not destroy without need, and I don't see any need to do so!

Mozart, when money comes onstage, national feelings get kicked out of the door quite efficiently, and that is a good solution!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
DoorsToManual
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Mon Sep 08, 2003 12:45 am

Well, it was interesting to read Mozart's comments in a period when many are asking for closer ties throughout the EU....I'm not criticising your remarks Mozart, but I do think they were very interesting! I had the impression that most Europeans were happy and comfortable and didn't resent each other.....are cultural issues important? Probably, but others seem to think there are other priorities at the minute.

rgds
 
star_member
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:06 am

it would be great if this deal goes ahead. i don't see the point of lh phasing out lx. the swiss brand is a good one despite the recent financial turmoils and bankruptcy. internationally, there is still a strong perception of an excellent product when we use the swiss brand. i think zurich will continue to have some key long haul routes eg new york, singapore, tokyo, london etc but many of the african routes will disappear and merged with lh. hope it all happens, swiss will be a good addition to star alliance
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:16 am

i second the opinion of Andreas, you hit on the nail!

and about national feelings. as i basically understand that some Austrian and Swiss people might resent the fact that their "national" airline might be taken over or controlled by a German airline, i think this would be a major step towards consolidation of the european airline industry, which is badly needed. we must stop restricting our minds by fences and borders.
it´s happenend in the US, and it is about to start here. there´s too much airlines, and especially in weak markets.

and from that point of view, i´m sure that no board member or member of higher management at LX and OS would stand in the way of integrating their airline with Lufthansa (except maybe for loosing their job) since those stand a much better chance of success than failed attempts such as KLM/Alitalia. it´s hard to combine airlines/companies with different corporate cultures, thus, imho, Swiss and Lufthansa fit together nicely.

cheers
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
Unique
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:26 am

...but many of the african routes will disappear and merged with LH

Maybe that's exactly what LH wants? Finally get some shares on the african traffic?
 
dutchjet
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:47 am

This deal is likely to happen for many reasons, the most important being that the Swiss will still have an airline and vital air services in and out of Zurich and the financial mess created by SR and LX will be over with, once and for all. And, the airline being owned by Lufthansa almost guarantees that the Swiss airline will survive. Its becoming clear that LX is headed for major trouble, and if this deal can be closed in the near-term future, it will avoid a lot of turmoil. As mentioned above, rationalization is needed in the European airline industry, especially with LCC becoming a larger part of the intra-european landscape, and its no longer possible for each country to sponsor a full service airline serving destinations all over the world.

Three interesting questions remain:

1. The fleet - I guess LH will pick and choose from the existing LX fleet, I wonder which types and aircraft they will take and what will be sold off? What about the A343s that SR has on order? Will LH convert the MD11s to cargo aircraft for LH Cargo? And, what about all of those regional aircraft?

2. Zurich - although the deal calls for Zurich to remain a hub in the combined airline network, will Zurich be a complete hub retaining service to cities all over the world, or will Zurich concentrate on certain regions, say moving passengers from Germany/Western Europe to destinations in Eastern Europe and capital cities in the former USSR republics and maybe Africa? I imagine some interncontinental service will remain: to key destinations such as JFK, BOS, SIN, NRT, but I do not imagine LH will create a network where Munich and Zurich directly compete with eachother.

2. Geneva - the forgetten city: at a certain point, Swissair elected to make Zurich its central hub and dropped almost all long haul service out of Geneva (I believe that only the JFK-GVA flight remained), LX has not focused on GVA, I wonder what LH will have in mind for services in and out of Geneva?

 
N79969
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Mon Sep 08, 2003 7:10 am

I think looking at the TWA/AA merger is useful here. While AA kept STL alive for a while, they are slowly de-hubbing from that airport. I do not believe LH will want to run what would still be a competing intercontinental network with a hub in such close proximity to its own hubs.

I think Zurich will become a very well-served spoke for Lufthansa ultimately. However, I don't think this will completely occur until the EU consolidates power and negotiates an US-EU Open-Skies (with the UK carved out).

Because of Zurich's importance, I think it will be served even without a carrier based at the airport.
 
RJ100
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Mon Sep 08, 2003 7:16 am

@N79969: To be honest, I think the Zurich hub will once again be downgraded (LH already mentioned that cost cutting is needed if they take over LX), and LH / LFSB), France">BSL and GVA will not see more than feeder services to German airports and maybe some direct services to the big European centers...

I might be wrong though.

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
CV990
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Mon Sep 08, 2003 10:54 am


Hi!

Until I see some words said in SWISS homepage about a possible merger I'm not going to discuss this matter, this all seems too vague. If SWISS is going to go forward an alliance I see them going to BA than to LH. My personal feeling!
Regards and I'm still waiting for a comment from SWISS!
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
Goose
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Mon Sep 08, 2003 11:10 am

A big, really big all-Germanic airline, sort of like SAS, which incorporates Denmark , Sweden and Norway into one ! Any names for an airline like that ?

add:sarcasm

I can see the ads now....

FatherlandAir.

We're German. And so are you.


/sarcasm

As for the promises made to keep Swiss independantly branded, employed and so on.... well, it can be kept on the same pile as the promises to keep Canadian independantly branded, with its own management and employees, as a part of the "Air Canada family of Airlines."

In other words, horse puckeys.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
N79969
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Mon Sep 08, 2003 12:00 pm

RJ100,

I think we agree. LH will try to assuage fears about the loss of the hometown carrier but will ultimately close the intercontinental hub at ZRH if the merger is completed.

Correction: "Because of Zurich's importance, I think it will be well-served even without a carrier based at the airport."

I would think Zurich will still get many flights from many corners of the world- no question in my mind. However, the Swiss may lose non-stop access to some secondary cities.
 
CV990
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Mon Sep 08, 2003 12:40 pm


Hi!

I really don't think swiss citizens will like everytime they need to make an intercontinental flight go from ZRH to FRA or MUC to go abroad. I think swiss people and SWISS Board of Directors that EVENTUALLY deal with that matter must have a little bit of pride NOT to let ZRH close their intercontinental flights! I would much better believe that SOME intercontinental flights would be directed via FRA and MUC but not all of them.
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
Andreas
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:25 pm

CV990: Afaik, the current board already spoke out loud that they prefer the LH version, I semm to remember an interview with the CEO.

You like Swiss to join Oneworld because you prefer Oneworld to Star? Very well, unfortunately you won't be able to feed the money into Swiss that is needed to keep the company afloat so to speak. Please keep in mind: we are talking survival or not here...and this to decide lies no more in the hands of the swiss management..deservedly so, after two major screw-ups!

As for strategy: I don't see LH closing down ZRH, it's a major financial center, and the government of Switzerland will in any case of takeover make absolutely clear that ZRH will remain that way. And why would LH want to do it? There's business travel, international finance community, people who are prepared to pay well for their tickets, exactly the clientele LH attracts, too. They'll never re-connect via FRA or MUC if it costs them 3 hours more.

But enough speculation, let's wait and see, it won't take long, I presume.

btw: The LH CEO is an Austrian, maybe that helps!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:53 pm

Some long-hauls to remain in ZRH to the important STAR hubs and to New York, all other long-hauls to move to MUC and FRA, especially Africa. Swiss Regional probably to become another part of Lufthansa Regional but maybe split up with the ARJs going to EW/CL, the ERJs to leave the fleet in favour of CRJs, the Saabs replaced by Dashs or ATRs by Contact Air or Augsburg Airways. More conections to the existing STAR hubs in Europe, especially to FRA and MUC plus additional in-betweens when interesting.

The A340s to be kept, the MD-11s probably converted or sold-off, depending on GEC´s needs. The A330-200s to be integrated into LH´s fleet. Several A319CJ/BBJ flights to start from ZRH and GVA. Embraer 170/190 order most likely to be cancelled.

That´s what I´ve heard so far.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:21 pm

If LH takes over the operations of Swiss, as per the article provided, will LX dehost their RES/DCS from Atraxis/EDS and migrate to Lufthansa Systems ? It would make financial sense to do so, rather than paying for 2 seperate systems. If they do, then its goodbye Atraxis/EDS.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
IwantaBBJ
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:52 pm

DutchJet mentioned it once... What about Geneva? And as we go, what about Basel?

In GVA's case, I think there are a few routes that have the potential to be retained, ie. New York and Moscow... Otherwise, I expect LH to just operate feeder-flights to FRA and MUC, along with the shuttle to ZRH. Other airlines will gain more weight in GVA, such as Easy and AF.. and BA maybe.

Really in trouble would be Basel, IMHO... Other than the LH-flights to FRA and MUC, the flights to ZRH and maybe the LHR-connection, there will not be much left.... It's already bad now there, and it will even get worse. Maybe some of the german routes would be operated by german carriers instead, I don't know and routes to France will be under french control (which already is the case, IMHO)

Michael
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Mon Sep 08, 2003 10:25 pm

hmm, GVA is probably the tricky part of all this. i presume there are some high-yields out of GVA, but on the other hand, there´s EasyJet and i really don´t think LH wants to mess with them. for the moment, LH has succesfully kept EasyJet away from penetrating the German market in a major way by buying Deutsche BA, but they´re well positioned in GVA and i doubt LH wants a new price war. i´m pretty sure that GVA and LH / LFSB), France">BSL could see many low-fare services by Germanwings, with some notable exceptions to destinations mentioned above.

there´s a question i´ve got and perhaps someone who´s more familiar with LX´s GVA-JFK service could shed some light on this.
as it seems highly likely that the Lufthansa/Privatair model will be introduced in Switzerland as well, if this take-over comes true, do you guys think GVA-JFK would become such a service, or can GVA-JFK support a daily A330-200 like it´s operated today?
I´m aware that´s a major business route (UNO personell, etc.), but what about load factor and yields in Economy?

cheers
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1959
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:13 pm

I can see the following longhaul business, but this is a wild guess:

North America:
BOS, YUL, MIA goes
NYC, IAD, ORD, LAX remain
PHL, SFO added
YYZ is served by AC

South America:
GRU/GIG remains OR moved to MUC
EZE I have no idea.

Africa:
JNB, CAI remain
all others will likely move to FRA (maybe NBO and Lagos remain in ZRH as well)

Far East:
PEK, NRT, BKK, SIN, HKG remain
MNL I have no idea (is it nonstop anyway?)
PVG might be added as soon as MUC-PVG is daily

Middle East:
TLV, DXB remain
Flights to india depend on the government decisions in India about slots.
others might remain, it depends on the frequency aircraft and load factor that are operated by now.

What would you guys think?

SailorOrion
 
RJ100
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:21 pm

I think LAX should go. This destination is losing a few 10000 $ per flight. Not sure about BOS. Especially during summer months this is a very busy route (tried to get tickets last summer but flights were sold out for almost the whole summer period...)

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
CV990
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Wed Sep 10, 2003 12:42 am


Hi!

I don't know why you say LAX should go? Have you see the seat occupation lately? Mostly they're full too, so if BOS is full and LAX is also full why LAX should go and not BOS? Maybe they're loosing money in that one too!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
RJ100
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Wed Sep 10, 2003 1:04 am

Hi CV990

I am 100% sure that LAX is one of the routes losing a lot of money. There were several discussions here on this forum and somewhere I have read that on just one flight they are losing a few ten thousand $ (can't remember the exact figures though).
I know that the load factor on these flights is high. I also travelled on the ZRH-LAX-ZRH route a couple of times in recent years. The flights are full but with fares starting at around CHF500 for a roundtrip they are not making money.
I don't know the exact figures for BOS, I just remember when I tried to go there last year (finally flying LH) there were only a few seats left through the whole summer period. And these seats would have cost a few thousand $...

Let's hope I am wrong with the LAX impression  Smile

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Wed Sep 10, 2003 2:33 am

Let's not forget that LAX is a large UA hub and LX would be a Star member if LH buys them. This should boost both yields and loads.

SailorOrion
 
donder10
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Wed Sep 10, 2003 3:07 am

I would suspect MIA will be kept and LAX will be dropt.Most US routes to revert to a Privitair type of service.
African routes generally maintain good cargo loads and yields but Swiss has such a small African network it would be hard to justify keeping a widebody flight.DXB and TLV would also revert to BBJ/319CJs or the normal 32X fleet.

GIG+GRU will move over to MUC or be dropped.
Asia is then the problem.To keep a widebody fleet for such flights or to switch them to MUC.I think the former is likely which would also assist the African routes.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Wed Sep 10, 2003 3:25 am

As we are all guessing about what LH would do at ZRH as far as long haul, here are my guesses:

Zurich to New York (2), Newark, Boston, Chicago, Miami, San Francisco, Los Angeles and Washington will operate with A330/340 service - these are large markets and the LH backed Swiss carrier has hardly any competition on any of the routes. (Its possible that UA would run the IAD and SFO flights.) IAD, SFO, LAX, and ORD will benefit greatly from Star Alliance connections, New York and Boston are well established and I think are money makers, and Miami I beleive has been a surpirse sucess for SR, LX and can benefit from the Star Alliance complex that will be developed in MIA in the future. EWR is a real possilbility since LH is slowly building up service at that airport and SR did serve the airport in the past with some success, before everything went wrong at SR. Service to Montreal and Toronto can be run jointly with Air Canada - with Air Canada taking one city and the new Swiss the other. JFK-GVA, the UN Express, is likely to stay in the schedule.


Far East/Japan to BKK, SIN and NRT - Star partners have a hub at each airport and code-shares are possibile; I would also think a flight to Beijing and/or Hong Kong could work. Dont forget that Zurich is a major financial captial with many business headquarters - Swissair was wildly successful with its worldwide flights before being mismanaged in the late 1990s by minority shareholder investments in many small carriers in an attempt to create a pan-European alliance. India and Africa are the big question marks: will LH try to concerntrate its services at one airport (FRA would make the most sense here) and fly to just one or two key cities out of ZRH (and MUN)? Seems likely to me.

Zurich can support services to the Gulf, Cairo and Tel Aviv and I think those will remain, as will some (if not all) European services.


 
leviticus
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Wed Sep 10, 2003 3:43 am

hmm... if it happens, will swiss automatically be a member of star alliance then ?
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Wed Sep 10, 2003 4:00 am

if this eventually turns out to be a real take-over, then i´d say we can assume LX will become a member of Star.

in addition, if LH took over LX, they´d probably be integrated into the Lufthana Group but continue to operate as a seperate airline just as is the case with Lufthansa CityLine. CLH is 100% owned by LH but maintains its own operations centre and handles crew issues (duty rosters, training, scheduling) itself. in addition to the non-airline operation side of things such as human resources, etc. the only tasks that LH is responsible for is fleet strategy and network planning, as well as marketing and IT work since they´re all under the same umbrella. i suppose it would be the same with LX? any thoughts?

and another thing, what do you guys think that is going on in the heads of Austrian Airlines employees and their management??? i think that should be considered as well. next in line?

cheers
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
CV990
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RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Wed Sep 10, 2003 5:31 am


Hi!

Just a question, don't you think that if LAX was that bad SWISS wouldn't have dropped that already? Unless SWISS likes to suffer and everyone there is blind I just can't believe LAX is that bad! I know that for a while Swissair had flights to SFO and dropped them, I know that in the Fall/Winter 2003 SWISS is dropping some intercontinental flights, now why they're not dropping LAX, they could do it now..... why not?
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Wed Sep 10, 2003 5:56 am

there may be a difference in what LX considers routes that are unprofitable but are kept alive so as not to lose more prestige or routes that are unprofitable that will cut when more drastic measures need to be taken.

i do not know if any of that applies to LAX.

daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
RayPettit
Posts: 602
Joined: Sun May 26, 2002 9:04 pm

RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:30 am

I think the Swiss Government will try their hardest to demand a 'golden share' that ensures that swiss has its own brand (like now) for many years to come and is seen as a Swiss airline in spirit in every way possible although the big decisions will have to be taken by the LH board. LX and SR before them have been too focused on being a world airline when Switzerland cannot support such operations in 2003, despite the nations importance and prosperity.

Yes, a Privatair 319 deal from GVA and ZRH seem a possibility. What kind of traffic levels, especially with high-yield passengers, are experienced between GVA and BRU as these are the two major 'diplomatic' capitals in Europe.

It will be interesting to see easyJet's response to this shake up as routes will doubtless be chopped at they may see a gap.

 
standby87
Posts: 403
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 2:33 am

RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:55 am

JGPH1A - will LX de-host from Atraxis/EDS if Lufty move in?

No chance mate, Lufty will migrate their Res and DCS to Zürich, after all isn't TPF faster than Unisys  Wink/being sarcastic And there's always SAA, SNBA and TF left isn't there?

Let's just say, it's becoming more critical that I win the jackpot on the Swiss LOTTO else deportation to blighty is on the cards.



 
Thomas_Jaeger
Posts: 2203
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2002 5:35 pm

RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:49 pm

From personal point of view, it would be extremely stupid to migrate to LH Sys and 1A because I have always had nothing but problems when dealing with them. OK, both are huge companies, but there are other GDS's and hosts which are way better organized than those two  Smile/happy/getting dizzy.
Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:13 pm

I don't hope that this will happen. If yes, I think many people here will not fly this airline anymore and will chance to BA, AF and others because we really don't like the Germans very much. It would be horrible to see an all "Germanic" airline. Imagine: no competition in the German speaking part of Europe; what a nightmare! Please remember that Switzerlandis not only German speaking but also French and Italien (and Rätho Romanic). I only flew LH once in my life, this was the first and last time.
 
Guest

RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:22 pm

Lol@ZRH.
You're funny. SWISSAIR bankrupt, SWISS almost bankrupt.
I also hope Lufthansa won't buy SWISS. Don't spend money for shit.
ZRH you don't like Lufthansa? So you have been somewhere in the world with a Lufthansa Ticket you paid and they got bankrupt and you had to buy a new one and had to throw away a Lufthansa-Ticket? NO?
Thousands of SR-passengers had to do so. And you remember the company in switzerland who produced kitchens for sr-planes. And company got bankrupt?
Remember? You don't like Lufthansa? So ask all the SR-passengers, ask the companies who got bankrupt with Swissair!
 
Unique
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:48 am

RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:53 pm

Stefandotde, don't compare apples and oranges! Just being realistic, but it's exactly your attitude why a lot of Swiss citizens don't like the Germans.

ZRH is absolutely right: it's politically impossible that LH is taking over LX. Should it still take place, it will be starting a hard time for LX/LH. And the LH management knows that, they're not stupid.

Let's wait and see what will win, the financial thoughts or the politics.

[Edited 2003-09-13 13:58:19]
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:56 pm

We are all clearly aware of swissairs problems. In a bar in geneva onnthe wednesday before easter sunday this yea i overhead a exc from swiss chatting to a financial advisor who clearly insisted swiss had to join an alliance to have any chance of staying alive.

it seems that a merger of at the very least and stake in swissair needs to occur. Whether it is Lufthansa or BA is down to personal choice and wh can offer the best deal for the swiss people.

With the news from KLm today, it seems that at long last the european industry is going to have a shake up.

If klm and AF can agree on a deal then what i stopping an airline tying up with swiss?
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Guest

RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:59 pm

Apples and oranges? SR got bankrupt, LX is going to be bankrupt. Lots of companies get bankrupt cause of bad SR and LX-management. And ZRH says that they dont want Lufthansa to buy LX?
If you are near-drowning, you say: I don't want to have help from you?
Lufthansa is in a good economic situation, I hope they don't buy LX. That's all. And ask ZRH about his attitude before you critizise me.
 
Unique
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:48 am

RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:03 pm

Lufthansa is in a good economic situation, I hope they don't buy LX.

Thanks, that's what I wanted to hear...
 
Guest

RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:05 pm

Hehe, unique, i am not in the situation to decide what LH and LX are doing. But I think it's arrogant from a person who says: we don't want lufthansa to buy lx cause we dont like them.
Let them sink onto bottom of the sea, that's ok. But it's better that only LX is at the bottom of the sea. Remember: what happened to Sabena after SR bought them?
 
Unique
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:48 am

RE: Lufthansa Seems Close To Bid For Swiss - Facts!

Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:11 pm

I hope everybody learnt from this, which ever way the whole story might go!

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