UAL747
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Why Is Boeing More Expensive Than Airbus?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:34 pm

While I don't have any figures, over the years I have come to the conclusion that Boeings are more expensive to buy than their competitor Airbus. Why is this? Of course their are many factors to put into cost, such as range, payload capabilites, size, etc., so I may be wrong in my assumption...

UAL747
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pilottim747
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RE: Why Is Boeing More Expensive Than Airbus?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:55 pm

It may be because Airbus is a consortium and subsidized by some European countries. The subsidies mean Airbus can cut prices lower than Boeing.

Also, it may simply the cost of production. I have heard anything but Airbus may have cheaper labor and production costs than Boeing.

pilottim747
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StevenUhl777
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RE: Why Is Boeing More Expensive Than Airbus?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 1:01 pm

Airbus is a consortium made up of several countries, receives subsidies from certain goverments (I'm not sure which specific ones). Another user may be able to provide specifics...Boeing currently does not receive such subsidies, and never has, from the **FEDERAL** government. Boeing has military contracts, but I'm not including that in my answer here, referring only to commercial aircraft. It's a matter of debate and a political hot potato, especially amonst the congressional delegation in Washington state, specifically Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA)

However, it is important to mention also that some states that Boeing has plants in (like Kansas, etc.) may give them certain tax incentives/breaks, and my state (Washington) has just approved a package offering them $3.2b in incentives, labor law changes, etc., to ensure the 7E7 assembly is done in Everett and Moses Lake, WA (about 2-3 hours east of Seattle in the central part of the state)
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CanadianNorth
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RE: Why Is Boeing More Expensive Than Airbus?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 1:06 pm

Well I know it involves alot more things, like those stated above, but I feel that Boeings are more expensive than Airbusses, but they are also ussually more capable than the Airbusses, therefor are worth more.
Also because Airbus seems to get more government funding than Boeing, and if Airbus Industries had the same ammount of government funding as Boeing Commercial Aircraft, they probably wouldnt be here.

CanadianNorth
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elwood64151
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RE: Why Is Boeing More Expensive Than Airbus?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 1:17 pm

Boeing has military contracts, but I'm not including that in my answer here, referring only to commercial aircraft.

I've seen others refer to the military contracts as "subsidies" for Boeing. One thing I've never pointed out (because it didn't occur to me that people might not understand it) is that Boeing has to spend billions of dollars to develop that military hardware before it gets any money to build it.

Military hardware, in this country, has been developed by the manufacturers, not the government, since th early 1920s. The last government-developed military system I am aware of is the M3-A1 Lee light tank, which was a terrible vehicle to inflict upon the allied troops. Almost all military systems since (except the original atom bombs and the first couple of thermo-nuclear devices, and some of the X-planes) have been developed by civilian contractors with input from the military in regards to "this is what we want."

I am not saying that it isn't a significant source of revenue or that the technology and aerodynamics learned cannot be applied to civilian use. But Boeing actually has to do something for the money.

As I now understand it, Airbus does not recieve direct subsidies, but rather discount-rate loans, which apparently must be paid back. I have less difficulty with this concept that I do with direct subsidy.
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jwenting
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RE: Why Is Boeing More Expensive Than Airbus?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 1:40 pm

Not entirely correct Elwood but very close.
There have been some joint projects in which the US government provided facilities and manpower for research under DARPA and similar agencies but in all cases there was indeed also a lot of corporate money involved.

Airbus is now getting loans (usually zero-interest loans) that officially have to be paid back.
In the past they received outright grants but after international pressure that was stopped (countries threatening to ban Airbus for unfair competition etc.).
Crux here is that most or all of those loans do not mention when they have to be paid back so Airbus can decide on their own when to pay back a loan they don't have to pay interest on either. Of course there is no reason to ever pay it back...

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artsyman
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RE: Why Is Boeing More Expensive Than Airbus?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 1:42 pm

Despite the cries of some that Boeing gets subsidized via its military contracts, it is important to mention that Lockheed gets way more military business than Boeing. EADS (Airbus) also gets plenty of military contracts.
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emiratesa345
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RE: Why Is Boeing More Expensive Than Airbus?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 1:47 pm

"are also ussually more capable than the Airbusses, therefor are worth more."

Oh yes? How so?

EmiratesA345
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artsyman
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RE: Why Is Boeing More Expensive Than Airbus?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 2:03 pm

This is about the point where common sense leaves the thread, and childish attacks happen by both sides, usually led by someone who has never flown on any plane, never mind an Airbus or Boeing....

 
emiratesa345
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RE: Why Is Boeing More Expensive Than Airbus?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 2:12 pm

I sure hope you're not referring to me. I'll have you know that I've flown on many airplanes. As of October 2nd, I will have flown on Concorde as well.

Also, I was simply asking him what he meant by what he said.

EmiratesA345
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artsyman
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RE: Why Is Boeing More Expensive Than Airbus?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 2:18 pm

Emirates, wasn't refering to you at all, or anyone else in this thread, just have been around long enough to recognize the breaking point, and it is about now
 
emiratesa345
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RE: Why Is Boeing More Expensive Than Airbus?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 2:20 pm

Artsyman,

Ok, just making sure. LOL

I'd say you're about right.

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VonRichtofen
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RE: Why Is Boeing More Expensive Than Airbus?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 2:58 pm

Perhaps CanadianNorth is referring to Boeings longevity. There are a lot of old Boeing still ripping around carrying pax. Hell, a good chunk of the Canadian domestic travel is operated with 732's (WJ, CDN North, Air North, And AC).
Most of the Airbus planes the same age are flying cargo or have already been grounded. I'm not slagging Airbus here, but they have yet to prove their longevity being equal to Boeing.

Also, CanadianNorth may have been referring to the 732's capability of landing on crappy gravel runways up North. You should see what those little Boeings can take. You'd never see an A320 on runways like that.
 
Joni
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RE: Why Is Boeing More Expensive Than Airbus?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 4:33 pm


According to BusinessWeek, Airbus is more efficient in producing airplanes than Boeing. I don't have a link with me right here, but this issue has been discussed on this board earlier a few times, so you can do a search and find more info.

According to a study prepared for the European Parliament, US subsidies to its aerospace sector are 2-3 times the level offered by EU countries. Now this includes military aerospace, so this sum isn't relevant to commercial airplanes in its entirety.

Jwenting, your information on the launch loans given to Airbus by the member states is incorrect, and I suspect you know it.
 
brons2
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RE: Why Is Boeing More Expensive Than Airbus?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 4:50 pm

Also, CanadianNorth may have been referring to the 732's capability of landing on crappy gravel runways up North. You should see what those little Boeings can take. You'd never see an A320 on runways like that.

You'd never see the 737NG doing that, either.

(not that I'm an Airbus fan or anything...)
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VC-10
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RE: Why Is Boeing More Expensive Than Airbus?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 4:52 pm

I am archiving this thread as the post content will just go round and round the same old views that have been expressed many, many times on this board.