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Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Mon Sep 15, 2003 3:37 pm

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/2483157/detail.html

LOS ANGELES -- A man who disrupted a United Airlines flight from Honolulu was subdued by passengers and airline officials who duct-taped him, then handed him over to authorities when the plane landed Sunday at Los Angeles International Airport, police said.

No one was reported injured during the altercation, said Sgt. Carl Sansbury of the airport police.

"The FBI is conducting an investigation," Sansbury said, adding he didn't know what prompted the outburst. He said police were called to the United gate at about 4:45 a.m. and took the man into custody, then handed him over to the FBI.

The man, whose name was not immediately released, could face a federal charge of interfering with a flight crew, Sansbury said.

"The aircraft landed at the gate without incident," he said.

One of the plane's passengers, Joseph Gugerty, said the man got out of his seat and began talking and wandering the aisle about 90 minutes after United Flight 54 left Honolulu for Los Angeles.

"He was pacing and reading the Bible," said Gugerty who was returning to Kentucky, where he is chief of communications in The Associated Press' Louisville bureau.

"They basically put him down and duct-taped him and the police took him off when the plane landed," Gugerty said. He added that about a half-dozen passengers helped an air marshal subdue the man.

"They let him wander back and forth in the plane until he started to move forward," Gugerty said. "Then they surrounded him and pushed him to the floor. I don't know where they got the duct tape from."

[Edited 2003-09-15 09:03:47]

[Edited 2003-09-15 09:04:52]
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:33 pm

If I had to fly United I would probably be reading the Bible and praying too.
 
cancidas
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:39 pm

"The aircraft landed at the gate without incident,"

HA!
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
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United_fan
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:42 pm

Love that duct tape  Smile
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FrequentFlyKid
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Mon Sep 15, 2003 11:19 pm

Who needs air marshal's, the TSA, or even the Department of Homeland Security. We've got duct tape!
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:04 am

Seems a bit harsh - whatever happened to freedom of expression ? Although I can see how that might be annoying. It could be the start of a whole new customer service avenue

eg. You're trying to sleep and the person next to you won't shut up

Answer: Duct tape over the mouth

e.g ditto and the yuppy freak next to you keeps banging away on his laptop

Answer: Duct tape over the keyboard

e.g. kid behind you keeps kicking your seat

Answer: Duct tape the little brat to the seat (and do the mouth, just in case)

e.g. trying to sleep, and the guy by the window keeps opening the blind and letting the lovely predawn glare into the cabin

Answer: Duct tape the blind closed

e.g. You're on the aisle, and the octogenarian next to you keeps getting up to relieve their age-weakened bladder

Answer: Duct tape the old dear to the toilet (no NOT the other idea - you guys are disgusting !).

The possibilities are endless.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Stretch 8
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:08 am

Advice for all airline passengers around the world: shit down and shut up.
Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
 
usair330
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:16 am

LMAO !!! I guess United's planes can now take off and land Vertical since they landed at the gate! LoL
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:59 am

I bet someone from untied.com will find a way to criticize their handling of the situation.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Floris
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 1:03 am

I bet someone from untied.com will find a way to criticize their handling of the situation.

As they should. Sounds to me United handled it pretty badly. So the guy is stretching his legs, reading the bible. How is that a crime? He didn't knock on the cockpit door did he? He didn't attach any crew members did he? Get real!
 
dc-10 levo
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 1:05 am

Well done to the passengers.
"Half a dozen passengers helped the air marshall."
Is there an air marshall on all United flights now?

"The aircraft landed at the gate without incident," he said. Big grin Big grin Big grin

DC-10
 
prosa
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 1:06 am

Sounds to me United handled it pretty badly. So the guy is stretching his legs, reading the bible. How is that a crime? He didn't knock on the cockpit door did he? He didn't attach any crew members did he? Get real!

He sounds like he was somewhat emotionally disturbed but not dangerous. I figure he'll be filing a false-arrest lawsuit against UA within a month or so.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
flyingbronco05
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:19 am

What did this guy do?!!

He wandered in the aisle so he was duct taped?

I missed what he actually did.

FB05
Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
 
Brick
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:02 am

Folks,

I was suprised this morning to come into work to find out one of my fellow co-workers was actually on board this flight. He was returning from helping his daughter move to Hilo. At lunch today I asked him for his account of what had happened.

He said things first started out with the passenger sitting in his seat, reading passages from a book. It was not the Holy Bible, instead it looked like a Zionism related book. My co-worker was seated in the row behind the passenger, on the other side of the plane (which was a 777). At first the passenger read quiety, then he really raised his voice. My co-worker described his voice level as being "very disruptive", especially in the middle of a red eye flight. The passenger seated immediately next to and the one immediately in front of the disruptive passenger both got up at of their seats and turned to face him. The disruptive passenger then began shouting at them very louding about Satan, God, etc... Most of what he said was incomprehensible, though it definately had a "religous tone".

The disruptive passenger then got up and left his seat, walking up the aisle toward the galley in the front part of the coach cabin. Two "big and burley" passengers got up to follow him, more to keep an eye on him. Once he approached the galley, the flight attendents asked him to sit down, but he did not respond. The "big and burley passengers" took up positions near the exit doors sort of guarding them.

The man then walked back to his seat and made eye contact with every passenger along the aisle and kept his voice at a very disruptive level. Once back in his seat, he quieted down for a moment. One of the "burley" passengers sat down next to him as if to keep an eye on him. A short time later, he had another out burst. The flight attendents approached him while he was seated, but he failed to respond to them. He then got out of his seat again and headed for the galley, this time with about 5 or 6 passengers trailing behind him. The entire time he was still shouting something very loudly. Once again some of the passengers guarded the exit doors.

A person in one of the forward cabins identified himself as a psychologist and approached the galley. The disruptive passenger then returned to his seat and the psychologist sat down next to him. At this time, the captain made an annoucement over the PA that "all passengers must return to their seats and fasten their seat belts". Clearly, this annoucement was made by the crew because of this situation. After several minutes the psychologist got up and spoke with the flight attendents. When the psychologist vacated his seat next to the disruptive passenger, the two "burley" passengers sat down next to him.

Suddenly, the guy lets out a scream, climbs over one of the other passengers, and runs up the aisle again toward the galley, screaming loudly the entire way. This time, approximately 8 to 10 passengers had then got up out of their seats and formed a circle around him in the galley. Once more the flight attended tried to calm him down, but the passenger was hysterical at this point. One of the passengers approached the man and disruptive passenger "tried a weak swing" at him. That passenger then "decked" the disruptive passenger and he collapsed to the floor of the galley. One of the passengers on board identified himself as an off duty customs official who was travelling for pleasure. He had a set of hand cuffs with him that they placed on the disruptive passenger. The passenger kept screaming and by then clearly everyone on the plane was disturbed what had happened to this point. Several of the passengers put a single piece of duct tape on his mouth and he lay there on the galley floor for the remainder of the flight and during landing.

Shortly before landing, the captain annouced over the PA that when they reach the gate, everyone needs to remain seated so they can "assist a fellow passenger off of the aircraft". When the plane arrived at the gate, 6 LAPD officers boarded the plane and escorted him off. A brief annoucement was made by the LAPD over the PA that if anyone wishes to give a statement of what happened to please contact one of the officers on the jet bridge. My co-worker elected not to do so even though this all happened very near him and his wife. He did say about a dozen people did meet with the police officers and give statements.

My co-worker was very surprised to hear that this had made the national news. He commented that all of the passengers acted appropriately and no one over reacted. I asked him specifically if the crew over reacted to anything and he said "Absolutely not." He also said that even though only about 10 passengers or so got up to deal with the situation, the faces on everyone in the plane looked like they were going to get up too if things really got out of hand. I'm glad to see that...

So there you go folks... I don't wanna here any more about how everyone over reacted. The man failed to comply with crew instructions and was detained until the flight could make a safe landing.

Mark Abbott
Denver, CO
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man...
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:24 am

He didn't attach any crew members did he?

Attach them to what?  Big grin
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
prosa
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:38 am

He also said that even though only about 10 passengers or so got up to deal with the situation, the faces on everyone in the plane looked like they were going to get up too if things really got out of hand. I'm glad to see that...

Me too. If there's one good thing to come out of 9/11, it's that passengers will take more responsibility for their own safety.
It sounds as if the passenger in question is what is known as an EDP, or Emotionally Disturbed Person, rather than someone who'd had too much to drink.
I wonder if UA will offer any sort of compensation to the people on the flight. After all, it surely was an unpleasant experience for them.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:45 am

"The aircraft landed at the gate without incident," he said.

Miracles never cease. United must be testing one of Boeing's new, unannounced "short-field" performance 777-200's, designed to slow from landing speed to 0kts in 36.4 ft.  Big thumbs up
 
BOSugaDL
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:50 am

If ya can't duck it F_ck it
 
N766UA
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:55 am

I don't see what this guy did wrong. Maybe he had a fear of flying? The people who subdued him must be awefully jumpy. I agree this guy's gunna have UA in court soon- and rightfully so.
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:59 am

The people who subdued him must be awefully jumpy. I agree this guy's gunna have UA in court soon- and rightfully so.

Spare me. The guy disobeyed crewmember instructions, which is a violation of federal law. He then took a swing at someone, who retaliated and then a U.S. Customs officer placed him under arrest, handcuffing him.

Absolutely no rights were violated here. The guy brought everything on himself.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
prosa
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:00 am

I don't see what this guy did wrong. Maybe he had a fear of flying? The people who subdued him must be awefully jumpy. I agree this guy's gunna have UA in court soon- and rightfully so.

I don't know ... based on Brick's post, which in turn is taken from someone who was on the flight, it sounds as if the man in question became progressively more agitated and finally lost it completely. He sounds much more like someone who is severely disturbed emotionally than your run-of-the-mill fearful flyer. His final outburst certainly did seem to call for physical intervention.
Which isn't to say, of course, that he won't end up suing UA, given the nature of the U.S. legal system.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
N766UA
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:04 am

For some reason Brick's post escaped me. I just read it, and yeah it does seem like the guy's got some screws loose. Neat how passengers protect their airplane like that ever since 9/11, though.
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KUGN
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:11 am

If anything, it seems to me like this passangers was given to many chances, to get his act together.
 
ual777contrail
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:29 am

Brick,
Thanks for the post, you made a lot of issues clear. What are the chances of someone on this forum knowing a person on the plane and yet even a few rows behind the incident.
thanks brick.


ual 777 contrail
 
coboeing777
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:37 am

I couldn't help but notice Brick's mention that two "big and burley" men stood by to guard the exit doors everytime the disturbed gentleman got up. Sure would have been a shame to see this wackjob escape by opening one of the exit doors inflight. Way to go "burly" guys!
 
ILoveORD
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:53 am

"He sounds like he was somewhat emotionally disturbed but not dangerous. I figure he'll be filing a false-arrest lawsuit against UA within a month or so."


--Good, I hope he does!! Maybe I can represent him...just ONE "big" case is all I need! Then I'll be set for the rest of my life, maybe I'll settle and part of the deal will be life-time travel priviliges aboard with UA...he he. J/K

In addition, I'd also file charges against the passengers for unjustified use of battery. According to the SSS online legal dictionary, battery is only justifiable: 1. on the ground of the parental relation; 2. in the exercise of an office; 3. under process of a court of justice or other legal tribunal; 4. in aid of an authority in law; and lastly, as a necessary means of defense. On the last point, battery is justified as a means to preserve the peace; and therefore if the plaintiff assaults or is fighting with another, the defendant may lay hands upon him, and restrain him until his anger is cooled; BUT he cannot strike him in order to protect 'the party assailed, as he way in self-defense. In this instance, it can easily be argued that the aggressor was not posing a serious threat--disobeying crew orders or not. And even if he was deemed a "threat" (ooh, watch out, he almost took down a 777 with a Bible or Zionist book or whatever), the manner in which he was subdued was not only excessive and inappropriate, but potentially life-threating (being duct-taped for a long period of time can create blood clots) as well...







[Edited 2003-09-16 00:09:19]
Backhanding the left into submission, one activist judge at a time.
 
ual777contrail
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:10 am

ILOVEORD,
Spoken like a true money hungry lawyer, trying to find reason to justify what he did.

If he was on the ground walking on pier or at the mall and acted this way he would be taken in to police custody and probably handcuffed, that is called disturbing the peace. He would be fined and on his way, nothing will amount to anything on this topic, if they ruined his Zionist cook book then UAL will buy him a new one.


ual 777 contrail
 
ILoveORD
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:24 am

Woah, woah UAL777. The part about the UA flight benefits was a joke; notice the "he he" and "J/k" (just kidding). But seriously, I do think the passengers may have over-reacted. Now, I read the link to the article at the top of the thread BUT I will not take into account some unconfirmed second-hand account from some guy (ie Brick) who says he "heard" from some other guy on the plane. To be honest, I don't think the passengers did not have any right to subdue the unruly passenger, but to be put down and duct-taped by half a dozen guys for what seems like a minor annoyance is excessive in opinion.

Additionally, if he was in public, at a mall or at a pier as you sau, his reading aloud would not be enough to constitute him being charged with disturbing the peace.
Backhanding the left into submission, one activist judge at a time.
 
prosa
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:34 pm

Now, I read the link to the article at the top of the thread BUT I will not take into account some unconfirmed second-hand account from some guy (ie Brick) who says he "heard" from some other guy on the plane. To be honest, I don't think the passengers did not have any right to subdue the unruly passenger, but to be put down and duct-taped by half a dozen guys for what seems like a minor annoyance is excessive in opinion.

If events indeed happened as related in Brick's account, I would say that the passengers and crew acted with remarkable restraint. Look at the disruptive passenger's actions in sequence:

1. He began reading aloud, in a very loud voice, during a red-eye flight when the other pax presumably were trying to sleep.
2. He shouted incoherently at the people sitting near him.
3. He walked forward toward the galley and did not respond when the F/A asked him to return to his seat. Remember, compliance with an F/A's request is a matter of law, not merely courtesy.
4. When he returned to his seat, he looked at everyone along the way and continued to speak or yell in a loud voice.
5. After returning to his seat, he had another (presumably loud) outburst and apparently ignored the F/A's who spoke to him.
6. He went toward the forward galley once again, being very loud as before. This was after the F/A's had asked him to remain seated.
7. A psychologist went to speak with him, and the captain issued a fasten-seatbelts order.
8. The disruptive passenger let out a shout, jumped over another passenger, and ran forward while screaming.
9. Finally, he ignored a F/A's attempt to calm him, being in what was described as a hysterical state, and attempted to strike another passenger. Only then was he physically restrained. And the restraint wasn't done in a way that caused him any injury. No one beat him senseless, something which by this time would have been entirely understandable.

In short, I would say that everyone acted very reasonably in dealing with what must have been a very frightening situation. I know that if I had been on the flight, I probably would have flattened him no later than his second run forward.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
freakfor747
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:50 pm

give it up for duct tape!!!!!!!!!!!!
LAX ROCKS
 
ILoveORD
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 1:20 pm

Prosa my friend, you just proposed a very big "If." Pardon my skepticism, but I don't usually give much credence to "I heard from a friend [or co-worker, or relative, or whatever]" accounts of actual events. Was I the only guy to think Brick recalled his co-worker's story with a little TOO much detail? Perhaps there was the slightest possibility of inaccuracy or exaggeration (bickering becomes yelling, argumentativeness becomes hysteria, etc etc), especially given the tendency for post 9/11 over dramatization and not too mention this is an aviation-related forum where I'm sure most of the members take matters like this with more interest that the general public? I can't even begin to imagine how many inferences you made in your own analyses? I don't want to come off as defending passenger's actions before I know the details; remember, in this country, you're innocent until proven guilty, not vice versa. I don't know, like I said, I guess I'm just naturally suspicious...so sue me...

Additionally, this post 9/11 "syndrom" may lead to passenger intervention in situations like this either sooner than it is warranted, or with more force than is necassary.

[Edited 2003-09-16 06:29:47]
Backhanding the left into submission, one activist judge at a time.
 
Guest

RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 1:29 pm

Sounds like the guy got on the wrong flight.. He was supposed to be on southwest with the other loud and obnoxious travelers... Here is the real question.. Which would you rather have behind you? The guy reading the bible or whatever it was out loud or a screaming 9 month old?
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 1:50 pm

ILoveORD: Sounds like you've got the first few arguments ready for your opening statements at trial! Ugghhh...give me a break, please. %$#&^ Trial lawyers!

Those passengers did EXACTLY the right thing, just like they did on UA93. These days, no one is taking any chances anymore, and who can blame them? Some screwball starts causing trouble and interfering with the inflight crews? Violation of federal law, and by whatever means necessary to take that person(s) down. I salute the pax on UA54 just like I do the ones on UA93 and the AA flight with the shoe bomber. There was another case on a United MIA-EZE flight a year or so ago also, but different circumstances...still, pax stood up and defended their peers and the aircraft.



And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
prosa
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:39 pm

Prosa my friend, you just proposed a very big "If." Pardon my skepticism, but I don't usually give much credence to "I heard from a friend [or co-worker, or relative, or whatever]" accounts of actual events.

Well yes, I had said if the account were accurate. That does make a big difference, of course. My comments on the incident apply only if what Brick recounted is true.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
prosa
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:41 pm

Sounds like the guy got on the wrong flight.. He was supposed to be on southwest with the other loud and obnoxious travelers

That's an absurd stereotype.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
wannabe
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 9:37 pm

So ILoveOrd,
At what point should the passenger be subdued? When the box cutter comes out? When he starts attacking the cockpit door? When he takes a passenger hostage? If the situation got out of hand because people "respected his rights", and someone was injured,you'd be the first one holding the airline (and probably every other passenger) accountable. You play your hand like a typical lawyer; take ANY situation to your advantage. There is no black and white, just green.

You're right; people do have the right to read and to express themselves. But it has to be in context with the situation. Does yelling fire in a movie theater when there is no fire fall under constitutional protection of free speech? Airline travel is not the same as it was pre-9/11, and any court that does not recognize this fact is just plain stupid. But then again, courts are run by lawyers.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:30 pm

I bet several of you right now would be screaming that this guy was wronged if he did the exact same thing but was a Muslim and reading out of the Quran, and that the passengers were discriminating against him... but I guess because he was reading the bible, then it was ok. Yeah he needed to be subdued because he was told to sit, but I bet a lot of you politically correct types would have seen it a different way had he been muslim.
 
ILoveORD
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Wed Sep 17, 2003 1:11 am

Ok, I think I see what’s happening here: there are two camps developing on this issue about dealing with rowdy passengers. Some folks feel that almost any in-flight passenger disturbance nowadays authorizes them to use whatever physical means they deem necessary to subdue an unruly passenger. Other folks, like myself and perhaps a few others who posted their disapproval, feel that some passengers are adopting a “Wyatt Earp-like” mentality; causing them to think that they can police the skies whenever and however they see fit, no matter how small the offense.

I mean, where does it stop? Heaven forbid you give some bodybuilder an awkward look before he decides to come over and restrain you, despite your loud protests....or what should happen if you point at an F/A and ask for another Coke without saying please, or worse yet, what if a Muslim passenger sneezes—can you imagine?!? Anyway, all this can be avoided IF the FAA passes the following laws, making it a crime to: 1) Read aloud while an aircraft is in-flight, 2) Run, jog, hobble, or make any movements in aisles that do not resemble walking, and 3) speak in a tone of voice louder than 20db. Additionally, all laws would be subject to enforcement by any passenger standing more than six feet in height and/or weighing more than two-hundred pounds. Sounds fair?

One more thing just to lighten things up and then I would have said my peace: Have any of you ever seen the movie "Anger Management" with Adam Sandler? Well, I can't help but being reminded of this one scene in the film that follows along the lines of the topic in this thread. There's this one scene where Adam Sandler, on an airplane, repeatedly asks (nicely, might I add) an F/A for a pillow (or blanket?). The F/A tells Adam Sandler to "Calm down, sir; Calm down." Adam Sandler replies in a meek voice, “I am calm.” Next, a large man (possibly an air marshall) also commands Sandler to calm down. Ultimately, the large man ends up tazering Adam Sandler with a stun-gun because he did not "calm down." Now obviously I realize that situation on UA54 was a real-life occurrence, but I think it’s a fairly reasonable inference that the scene parodies the situation described above…?

Edit: "Always assume that your assumption is invalid."
--Robert F. Tatman


[Edited 2003-09-16 18:37:52]
Backhanding the left into submission, one activist judge at a time.
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Wed Sep 17, 2003 1:19 am

Ok, I think I see what’s happening here: there are two camps developing on this issue about dealing with rowdy passengers. Some folks feel that almost any in-flight passenger disturbance nowadays authorizes them to use whatever physical means they deem necessary to subdue an unruly passenger. Other folks, like myself and perhaps a few others who posted their disapproval, feel that some passengers are adopting a “Wyatt Earp-like” mentality; causing them to think that they can police the skies whenever and however they see fit, no matter how small the offense.

It sounds to me as if the passengers on UA54 were in neither camp. If Brick's account is accurate (and yes, I am aware that I am operating under a major assumption), they reacted physically only after repeated attempts to calm the unruly passenger had failed, and after he made his third move forward. And even then, they acted with just enough force to restrain him without causing injury. It's hard to imagine a planeful of law enforcement officers handling the situation any better.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
aerobalance
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RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Wed Sep 17, 2003 2:14 am

ILoveORD,

If you could, please refresh my memory, I don't have my copy of the current AIM/FAR's at my desk at this moment, but..... Who is allowed authority on an airplane while inflight (international, national and over-water)? And at what capacity can they exercise this authority?

Please describe for persons below, if they were on an aircraft that is airborne.

1. Pilot in Command of said vessel
2. Copilot of said vessel
3. Off-duty peace officers
4. Off duty customs officers
5. Licensed pilots as passengers

I'm just looking for some quick clarification, thank you.
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
ILoveORD
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:20 am

RE: Man Tackled On UA 54 Flight, HNL-LAX

Wed Sep 17, 2003 2:52 am

I don't know Aerobalance, I don't have a copy of the AIM/FAR book. However, I did find a good article from the findlaw.com website that deals with this issue (sort of):

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/ramasastry/20021002.html

Here are some passages from the text:

"the United States Department of Transportation has primary authority for airplane security and law enforcement, and, according to the law, "exclusive" responsibility for passenger safety. With the approval of the Attorney General and the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Transportation may authorize a marshal or other government employee who carries out air transportation security to carry a gun."

"In an August 2002 statement prepared by the Federation of Government Employees, AFL-CIO, air marshals themselves confirmed their lack of training - reporting that, with thousands of new marshals hired, the program operates like 'security guard training at a mall.' "

"A marshal is also empowered to make warrantless arrests. The only state of mind that is required, for such an arrest to be legal, is the marshal's reasonable belief that the arrestee is committing, or has committed, a federal felony offense, including an offense against the United States."

"Under a federal statute (section 44902; click on link in article), airlines (meaning, in practice, the pilot and other personnel) have the authority to require a passenger to disembark from a flight if they believe him to be a safety risk. But another statute also prohibits airlines from discriminating based on race, ethnic origin or religion."

"At present, air marshals and airline personnel can force a person to leave a plane, or even arrest him, merely because a passenger or a crew member feels uncomfortable with his flying."

Like I said, what's next? A guy starts to read a prayer book and some passengers start to get antsy--next thing you know, he's tied up on the floor "just to be safe..."





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Backhanding the left into submission, one activist judge at a time.