Ikarus
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Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:39 pm

BBC story

Apparently, a muslim pilot living in the UK was arrested, kept 5 months in jail, and then released. The US suspected him of training the hijackers, but apart from the fact that he is a Muslim, no evidence for that theory is mentioned in the news article. He asked for an apology, did not get one, and now he is sueing for $20 million.

Pretty sad that his career is ruined (no airline will employ him now) because of a false accusation and arrest...

Even worse, 5 months in jail as innocent.

$20 million is, of course, a ridiculous sum, like all US damage lawsuits, but to be fair he deserves some compensation (if the article is correct and he is innocent). Maybe 1/20th of what he is sueing for would be fair?

Regards

Ikarus

[Edited 2003-09-16 15:40:03]

[Edited 2003-09-16 15:48:17]
 
FlySSC
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot (post 11/09) Sues US (FBI)

Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:53 pm

If he is innocent, which is probably the case, he should sue them for $500 millions...!

All these cases of illegaly arrested and jailed pilots or F/A (VS ) in the U.S are getting ridiculous and reflect the real paranoia of certain Police or Security forces in this country. Instead of always thinking they-are-the-best-in-the-world, and acsusing everybody of anything all the time, often without any proof, they should begin to investigate what is wrong in their system.
 
Guest

RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:58 pm

A sad indictment of the USA's system of 'justice'. This story was covered in some detail here in the UK. Despite many requests, the US authorities repeatedly refused to provide any evidence whatsoever against this individual.
 
Ikarus
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:00 pm

Sorry, perhaps I should clarify: He was arrested on behalf of the US by the UK. He sues the FBI for accusing him and putting the warrant out there (without any evidence), but he was arrested and imprisoned in the UK, under some UK terrorism act of 2000. The UK refused to extradite him to the US when it became apparent that there was no case, just more or less blind accusation.
 
Ikarus
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:12 pm

and no, $500 million is not warranted.

Put it like this:

-career ruined: say £30,000 for 20 years (I'm sure he will find another job, just not as pilot)
-dream ruined: buy him a Cessna (£150,000) and pay all associated fees for life
-5 months in prison: £10,000 per month for the emotional distress for him and £5000 for his family
-false accusations, malevolent intent, etc.: £50,000

=£875,000

That is what he should get (IMO), provided he wasn't raped in prison or otherwise physically tortured.


Sure, it'd be nice for the FBI and the US to pay heavily for every injustice, but to whom? He was a victim and deserves compensation, but when it comes to punitive payments, why should he get those as well?
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:16 pm

Lets just sue sue sue for every injustice we have. Keep those lawyers employed!!! I could have made a couple million if I sued for every little time I thought something was done injustly to me too. Give him a $5 mill settlement and get on with it.
 
bobrayner
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:27 pm

There's a difference between compensation and punitive damages... it could be the latter?
(although UK courts are, I think, very shy about them compared to the USA)
Cunning linguist
 
Ikarus
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:30 pm

Give him a $5 mill settlement and get on with it.

With what? Innocently accusing, arresting, imprisoning and, quite likely, eventually executing people, as well as reducing the freedoms until the "land of the free" becomes the "land of the policed"? I know it's what the US government will continue to do for a while yet, but I don't think it's right to encourage them...

Regards

Ikarus
 
Okie
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:45 pm

Definitely does not seem to be any accountability for the government in the law. I don't think until a few people take the situation to task as mentioned that much will change.
 
Greg
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:04 am

A jury will decide the damages if it goes to trial.
In all likelihood he will settle out of court.
And be deported.

Or just deported.
 
Ikarus
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:08 am

deported? Where to? And why? Why should the UK deport him?
 
Guest

RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:09 am

Greg - where will he be deported from, and why?
 
Guest

RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:43 am

Same we have in Germany - not with a pilot but with a muslim. US says, he is supporting terrorists. But as we see (also good examples are Blair with his 45 minutes lie and US-lie in UN-meeting): we can't believe the administrations from US and GB.
 
jwenting
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:53 am

no reason to sue the US. The UK should have done their research before arresting him and are therefore the ones to blame if the arrest was not justified.

But of course this bozo knows he can get more money from a US jury by playing the "me discriminated against innocent foreign person" ploy so he goes for the easy money while in the UK he'd get peanuts.

I wouldn't be surprised if the charges against him were justified if maybe found to be based on evidence that later turned out to be incomplete in which case he's owed zip except an apology.
I wish I were flying
 
Guest

RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 1:14 am

Jwenting - the UK was required to arrest him under the treaties that exist between the UK ans US. However, the US was then required to produce evidence against him in order for him to be extradited. The US could not, of course, produce such evidence so the UK authorities released him. In this case the UK has met all of its international obligations whereas the US, not for the first time, has not.
 
Ikarus
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 1:17 am

Jwentig: The UK detained him on behalf of the US. They were the agency that acted, not the one that issued the warrant and made the accusation. If you were arrested innocently and then released almost half a year later without apology, would you sue the local policeman who turned up at your door or the people who organized and caused your arrest?

The UK already did their bit by refusing to extradite him when they weren't provided with any evidence to support the charges. But anyway, the article states that The solicitor said legal action was also planned against the Crown Prosecution Service and police in the UK. , so be sure they are getting their share of legal problems.

Another few quotes:
The pilot was arrested under the Terrorism Act 2000 at his home on 21 September 2001.

When no terrorist charges had been brought against him after five months in jail, he was freed on bail.



So, within 10 days of the attacks they have someone arrested, but for 5 months they keep him imprisoned without finding anything to charge him with? Frankly, that is a scandalous case of judicial malpractice. It seems all the "terrorist act"s do is allow people to be locked up semi-permanently without trial or charge.

Regards

Ikarus
 
spk
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 2:36 am

I'm supporting any anti-terrorism initiatives but this kind of sloppy police work which puts the freedom of innocent people at risk must stop. What the hell is this? Think about it. Now, in the US, the police can arrest you and put you in jail for 5 months, no release on bond, without having the case or evidence against you. This is not a good thing and without proper check and balance (anyone who question the government's action are called "traitor"), the abuse will continue and it'll get back to your life someday.

Again, don't get me wrong. I'm cooperating with all the security measures at the airport without complaining since I know that they do it for our safety. However, giving absolute power to the FBI or any Fed agency to decide who to put in jail first then try to find the evidence later while that individual is suffering (rotting) in jail is plain unacceptable.
 
Ikarus
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 3:16 am

Now, in the US, the police can arrest you and put you in jail for 5 months, no release on bond, without having the case or evidence against you

Except, of course, in this particular case they let the UK, America's little colony, do the dirty work...
 
copaair737
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 4:13 am

I would sue them too. He will never get a pilot job again, and he was labeled a "terrorist" when there was no proof that he was. If you were wrongfully accused of being a terrorist, you were thrown in jail for something you never did, wouldn't you sue them too?
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
fspilot747
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 4:20 am

If we 20 million is what he wants, 20 million is what he deserves for what we did to him.


FSP
 
Ikarus
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 4:34 am

Perhaps. If someone can get millions for spilt coffee, then yes, he deserves it, without a doubt. Within the US frame of compensations, his claim is actually quite reasonable, as it is below $100 million  Big grin

But it's the ludicrously high amounts being named in US courts in the first place that I find unrealistic. If I criticize the amounts regularly (and I do), it would be hypocritical of me to suggest that the one victim I sympathize with deserves the money while all others do not.
 
Guest

RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 4:45 am

@Ikarus:
It's totally different: if an american person is so stupid and puts his coffee onto his crotch, he gets millions. Even if he did it himself.
If a government arrests a non-us-person unjustified, why should the man get millions?
That's consequential, isn't it?

By the way: I like the pix on your member-profile!
 
Greg
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 4:46 am

He was from Algeria.
The president of Algeria spoke on his behalf.

I was half joking about the deportation...I sure the US and UK find that an expediant way to get rid of.....well.....'headaches.'
 
727LOVER
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 4:48 am

I could have made a couple million if I sued for every little time I thought something was done injustly to me too. Give him a $5 mill settlement and get on with it.

You were jailed for 5 months w/ no evidence against you?  Insane
I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
 
DeltaMD11
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:03 am

The only money he deserves is that of lost wages, and those of potential wages had he not been a victim of defamation. So they should add up his pay at the time he was arrested....and give that 5 month tenure. Then calculate the approximate money he would have been appropriated if he were able to continue on with his career for x amount of years. No more...no less.

Bryan
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
Greg
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:14 am

Absolutely wrong! That's only compensatory damages. Punitive damages should be significantly more. You'd feel much more differently if it happened to you!
 
gigneil
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:17 am

Absolutely wrong! That's only compensatory damages. Punitive damages should be significantly more. You'd feel much more differently if it happened to you!

Complete agreement. Government exists to protect your well-being, and should be appropriately penalized when they detract from it significantly.

5 months of your life is a horrible, terrible thing to lose. We criticize China for these same agregious crimes with billions of dollars in sanctions. 1 man certainly can have $20 mil.

N
 
Ikarus
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:28 am

Greg, you confuse me. On the one hand you suggest his deportation to avoid the "headache" and on the other you think there should be significant punitive damages? Whose side are you on in this - the government or the pilot? (Or, the lawyers?  Big grin )
 
DeltaMD11
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:41 am

I apologize, I should have pointed out that he should receive punitive damages. To be included....false imprisonment, possibly libel depending on how the story was publicized, most certainly defamation of character-things of that nature. Certainly not worth $20 million though. Thanks for hooking that one Greg  Smile Don't knwo where my mind is today  Sad

Bryan
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
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STT757
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:48 am

I think this fellow has little to no standing with regards to his case, he is not a US citizen, he was not in the US, nor was he being held by US Authorities.

The Bill of Rights does not protect foreigners in foreign countries, nor should it.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Navion
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This Thread Should Be Deleted

Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:53 am

I have suggested deletion of this whole thread based upon unsupported political beliefs and flaming accusations. It's very possible the persons posting on this thread DON'T KNOW THE REAL STORY. It's highly likely the persons posting on this thread DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. This thread doesn't support aviation in any way in my opinion. Nothing personal folks, I'm just sick of the unsupported flaming debate.
 
Ikarus
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:55 am

Flaming? where?

What on earth are you talking about?
 
Ikarus
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:01 am

And, frankly, it is aviation related:

A pilot is accused of a crime. Not aviation related.

A pilot is accused of, in his capacity as pilot, training terrorists to fly planes. That is aviation related.

A pilot is arrested and held under a terrorist act for a crime, related to his profession as pilot and his religion, which, it turns out, he did not commit. Still aviation related (and law related and discrimination related, etc.).

He asks for an apology, does not get one, and sues the government afterwards. Because it is the same case, about a pilot who is accused of misdoings in his capacity as civil aviation pilot, it is still aviation-related.

Not to mention that the entire case revolves around the biggest disaster in aviation history...

Regards

Ikarus

[Edited 2003-09-16 23:11:39]
 
MD88Captain
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:09 am

Yes, deletion is an excellent suggestion. However, Ikarus will undoubtedly be upset and may sue. Can't you find some other website to bash all things American?
 
Navion
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:11 am

Comments about the U.S. being a police state and cynical comments about the "land of the free", the UK being a US puppet etc. are not constructive and constitute flaming language as it incites harsh feelings and disagreements. Do you understand that? I am a lawyer and I also have some ancillary knowledge of some of the activities addressed here and I have learned what you read in the paper, especially from the BBC (which HAS BECOME SUSPECT AND HAS MADE SOME ERRORS AS OF LATE as is the case with the New York Times) is often out of context or contain glaring factual errors. This case may be as you say but I can promise you that you don't know the facts. As the old adage goes, "if you're not on the inside, you're out". Some errors and mistakes may and will occur. That's life but this post has not enhanced airliners.net. I want to enjoy this forum, not engage in hearsay and rhetoric by persons not personally involved in that to which they're commenting. Enough said.
 
gigneil
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:11 am

Yes, deletion is an excellent suggestion. However, Ikarus will undoubtedly be upset and may sue. Can't you find some other website to bash all things American?

This is one American firmly on the side of the pilot in this matter, and I'm appalled that any other American wouldn't be.

N
 
elwood64151
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:13 am

Unfortunately for the pilot, sueing a sovereign is very difficult. Even if he wins, he won't collect. It's the same as with the survivors of the 9/11 victims sueing Saudi Arabia. They might just actually win, but they won't get anything, unless SA feels just so particularly magnanamous.

One thing people should remember here:

There may have been evidence against the pilot that the prosecutors did not want to release to the UK. Unless he was going to be tried in a military tribunal, I doubt it, since by discovery rules that evidence would then have to be turned over to the accused' defense lawyer, anyway. More likely, it was an over-ambitious prosecutor trying to make a name for himself.

The likelyhood is that, if so little evidence existed, the defense would have asked for a preliminary hearing and proven that the evidence did not warrant the arrest of the pilot. It happens more than we hear about.

Another important thing to remember:

Lots of people spend time in jail for being accused of crimes they didn't commit. This man only has a case if the only evidence against him was that he was a muslim, and none of us knows for sure if that is all they had.

Ikarus:

Remember, the people who write the news are not lawyers. They are (usually) reporters who've probably had one (very liberal) class in juris law. People can not be held more than 72 hours (in the US) without being charged with a crime. I do not know what the restriction is in the UK, but I imagine it's similar. However, he may have been charged, then released due to lack of evidence. Also, while a warrant is not the same as an indictment, if he is awaiting extradition, I do not see how a grand jury could be empanelled, since he could not make any statements to the police vis-a-vis an alibi, etc.

I am sorry for this man, and he is owed some compensation, I agree. However, there are far greater miscarriages of justice I can think of (a recent 9th circuit court of appeals decision comes to mind). And he is now free, and his record should be expunged.

I agree with the figure stated above: 875,000 pounds, or about $1.5M, should be paid to him to compensate for his loss of income, future employment, and seniority.

I also think it's important to note that, in a lot of other countries, he wouldn't be eligible for any kind of compensation because, under codified law (based on the Napoleonic Code), you are guilty until proven innocent. This is still the case in many countries, even some European ones. I do not have information up-to-date enough to know which ones. It is only under Common Law (which is the model for UK, US, Austalian, New Zealand, and Canadian law, and is similar to many German and Scandinavian systems) that people are "innocent until proven guilty." The fact that he can even bring this case with any expectation of winning speaks volumes about our collective judicial system.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:16 am

People can not be held more than 72 hours (in the US) without being charged with a crime.

Not so. The "Patriot Act" allows the INDEFINITE DETENTION WITHOUT CHARGES of any aliens, as well as of US citizens designated by the Attorney General as a suspected enemy combatant.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Guest

RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:21 am

STT757 - have you completely missed the point or just selectively read this thread? The person concerned was being held at the specific request of the US. How does that make it nothing to do with the US?
 
DeltaMD11
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:21 am

Very well-said Elwood. My feelings exactly.

Navion:

"I want to enjoy this forum, not engage in hearsay and rhetoric by persons not personally involved in that to which they're commenting. Enough said."

-If that were the case, 90% of the posts on the civil aviation forum and especially the tech ops forums would not be admissable. Don't destroy the viability of a post...contribute your thoughts and opinions without making the thread go sour. IF you can't do that, then refrain from posting on a particular subject---that's what I do  Smile Have a good one!

Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
spk
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:28 am

This pilot is not asking for an unreasonable compensation. People who suggest that he should only sue for lost wages may need to do some reality check. If tomorrow the Fed knock on your door and put you in jail for 5 months and ruin your flying career forever, all only because they "suspect" that you may be a terrorist, will you sue the Fed for only your lost wages? Guys, this guy spent 5 months in jail! He has lost his current job. And he probably will never be hired by any airlines in his life. This is scary. And more scary is the fact that some people still don't realize that what the fed did to the guy was wrong.
 
Ikarus
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:33 am

I want to enjoy this forum, not engage in hearsay and rhetoric by persons not personally involved in that to which they're commenting.

So what can be discussed here then? Techniques for spotting and what else?

Not airline management.
Not fleet decisions.
Not air crashes.
Not security.
Apart from about 10 members, certainly not piloting.
And not even livery design, as most people here just fool around without being professionally involved....


The truth is that, due to September 11th, security has been increased, which is good. But at the same time, the entire industry and all activities associated with it are under attack. These attacks range from calls to ban MS Flight Simulator, to scaring tourists by putting tanks at airports and withdrawing them a week later, to prohibitting photography, and even to arresting and keeping imprisoned innocent people, as in this case and that of the French Virgin Atlantic F/A who discovered a bomb threat written on the mirror of the lavatory.

The truth is, no sector of life has become as regulated and as irrationally policed as aviation-related activities, whether they are spotting (how many spotters have been intimidated, and some even arrested?), being unlucky enough to discover a threat...

So yes, I think we have a right to complain about the state of affairs, about the injustice that occurred in this particular case, and about the way it is being handled.

The second aspect is, of course: What if he is guilty? In that case, you have at least one known pilot with terrorist tendencies who used to fly. So that opens up entirely different questions (eg: Was he alone? Is arming pilots a good idea? Can anything be done, technically, to prevent controlled flight into buildings? Should pilot monitoring be extended not just to people learning to fly, but to present pilots?)

There are many possible tracks of discussion. I happened to open it up with my opinion - that the compensation sought was typically inflated. And that injustice had been done to him, if the article is correct. This is a discussion forum. It's all about opinions.

If you believe him to be guilty, argue your side. Comment on the consequences for aviation if there's already terrorists flying as professional pilots as we speak. Discuss, as civil as you can, what you wish to discuss, related to this topic.

But saying "I want to enjoy this forum, I don't like your viewpoint, so shut up" in a roundabout way is not adding anything to airliners.net either....

Regards

Ikarus
 
wingman
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:44 am

I agree with many above that this is an egregious breach of justice and the man should be compensated. The sum of course, is absolutely ridiculous and I'm sure that if he's qulaified there will be a number of "muslim" airlines that would employ him as a pilot. And yet many of the insinuations about US justice are equally absurd. The very fact that this person is able to bring about such a lawsuit speaks for itself. If he were from his own country or just about any other "muslim" country he would most likely have his head, hand or pecker lopped off for even pointing out the error. Ahhhh, but as we all know on this forum, the US is an extremist terrorirst state run by fat, supid lazy Americans who are hell bent on the persecution and elimination of all muslims. As with border detentions, this is the first known case in the EU, US, Canada, and Asia where someone has been falsely accused and imprisoned. If I'm wrong and any such thing has ever happened in Germany, Spain, France, Canada, Japan, Korea or Australia etc. please let me know. Somehow I don't think the perfect people of those perfect countries would ever do such an imperfect thing.
 
Ikarus
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RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:57 am

As with border detentions, this is the first known case in the EU, US, Canada, and Asia where someone has been falsely accused and imprisoned.

No. In fact, a German was recently discovered to be innocent of the murder he was sitting in jail for  Big grin

The point is: Having someone imprisoned for 5 whole months without evidence for his guilt and without being able to formally charge him with the crime he is accused of, without trial, that is not right. And a system permitting this kind of procedure - be it the US one or the UK one or both, is wrong, too. It is a loophole that could potentially be exploited to create a police state.

For a similar example: The German Constitution in the 1920s and 1930s allowed for a "state of emergency" whereby the leader of the nation could effectively switch off the legislative and judiciary and take full control of his nation, to counter an imminent threat decisively. A certain politician used that loophole and turned a young democracy into complete dictatorship.

The American Constitution, as far as I know, does not allow for such drastic steps, or abuse, of the system. But once you put laws in place whereby people can be detained without being charged, you have created a loophole that could be exploited to create a police state (though not a dictatorship, as far as I can see). Right now, the main targets are terrorists, and presumably injustices are rare (though, as seen here, not unheard of). But with that law in place, who is to say it can never be abused? The truth is that legislation aimed at terrorist is often flawed and opening loopholes that have the potential for abuse. Hence my earlier prediction that the "land of the policed" may come about in the future.

Regards

Ikarus
 
KROC
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m

Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:58 am

This thread has gotten well off topic and therefore will be locked.

KROC

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