goingboeing
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FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Wed Sep 17, 2003 11:33 pm

 
Captain_777
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Wed Sep 17, 2003 11:52 pm

Well they are taking safety percautions. But I think that is taking it over board. I think they knew it was from the USA. But that's not for me to decide, that's for the customs people.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Wed Sep 17, 2003 11:52 pm

It's not really aquestion of overdoing it security-wise, but that's foot&mouth got in here, and with the havoc that the SARS virus produced, being overly cautious is not overdone. That was one of the reasons I got furloughed was because of that. It's harsh, but she'll never forget to check her case. The UK can be worse as far as fines for agrigcultural reasons.
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B747-437B
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Wed Sep 17, 2003 11:59 pm

This reminds me of the inaugural Air India flight to Chicago in 1996 where the captain was stopped by US Customs and fined for having a half eaten sandwich in his bag.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
ILoveORD
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:14 am

Yeah, just another manifestation of post 9/11 overreaction. But I'm surprised the article doesn't mention her being subdued by passengers and duct-taped?!? But then again, she didn't make it to the plane...just imagine the fallout if is she ate it on the plane and chewed too loudly?
Backhanding the left into submission, one activist judge at a time.
 
MidnightMike
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:19 am


Rules are rules, this is a new world we are living in, "Live it, Learn it, Do it". Sheesh, an apple in her suitcase, I hope her panties were clean.
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FlySSC
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:44 am

IloveORD, that's not another post 9/11 overreaction...this time ! it's been forbidden for years to enter the U.S with fresh food, especially Fruits/vegetables and meat, to "protect American Health..."  Nuts.

It makes me laugh when you see all the kind of shit/junk food and other transgenic things we can find there... Sad
 
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:47 am

The world's gone mad!
 
caetravlr
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 1:08 am

So, they can't bring it into the country. Confiscate it, but don't fine her for goodness sakes. She didn't do anything wrong knowingly. That was just some customs official who hadn't had any excitement all day...
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
 
ILoveORD
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:59 am

"it's been forbidden for years to enter the U.S with fresh food, especially Fruits/vegetables and meat, to "protect American Health..." "

But FLYSSC, one of the points of the article was that it was NOT a foreign apple, the apple was an American apple being checked at American customs...it didn't come from abroad--it even had a "Granny Smith and Washington" (an American apple farm) sticker on it. C'mon....
Backhanding the left into submission, one activist judge at a time.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:34 am

Manairport: The world's gone mad!

No, the world hasn't gone mad. Four percent of the world has gone mad, those 4% which are called the USA.

Of course it's a good law that uncontrolled exchange of foodstock does not happen between the continents, but a $500 fine for forgetting an apple, be it a British or US apple, that's only a showpiece of a sick system. A warning or a $10 fine would be sensible.

Just imagine the other way around, that an American FA had been fined $500 for bringing an apple into my local airport Copenhagen. The US secretary of state would have called his ambassador back home, Danish ailines would have been banned from US airports etc. Well, it's hard to imagine since we all know that it will never happen.

Dear US of A, you consider yourself a developed country, you can easily become one. Just do it.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
MD88Captain
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:36 am

The rules are simple and the rules have been in force for a decades. No FA or pilot could be unaware of the agriculture/customs rules concerning food if they been flying for very long at all. At my airline we are continually reminded of the rules and potential fines. Just do it right. Where's the burden?

She was lucky. I believe they could have fined her up to $10,000.
 
Customs172
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:51 am

As a Customs Inspector myself I agree with the Inspector that fined her. My advice to people when coming though the airport here is to be sure of what is in your bags before you come to the inspection line. You are responsible for what is in your bag, even if you didn't know it was there. As for the sticker who cares. Its a prihibited item she didnt't declare it. Know whats in your bags. I had a guy declare a crack pipe. He said he didn't put it in his bag, and didn't know where it came from. Guess who went to jail? Thats my 2 cents
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:00 am

You are responsible for what is in your bag, even if you didn't know it was there.

I'm a pretty levelheaded, reasonable person...and even I have to agree with the U.S. Customs inspector on this. She was ultimately responsible for the contents of her bag, and she, as a flight crew member, should have known better.

I'll tell you what, though...she'll NEVER forget to doublecheck her belongings next time! Call it "tough love" or whatever you want; it's negative reinforcement that will ensure compliance from now on.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
ILoveORD
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:03 am

Hold up Preben, let's not a start a war of civilizations here; because I guaran-damn-tee you that you'll lose every time. Now believe me, I'm not defending the fine by any stretch, but your conclusion that this matter is a "showcase of a sick system" is WAY overdrawn, not to mention melodramatic!

Furthermore, I don't see what you're protesting for; the fine was laidened on an American F/A for not following an American law: where do you get this "if it was the other way around" nonsense? It's not like a Danish F/A was fined $500 for being in violation of an American law...? It's OUR problem, NOT yours; and to get really technical, it's more of the F/A's problem.

Then, you have the balls to question our "development"? I'd like to know what your definition of development is? Because the last time I checked, Denmark's national GDP was barely a TENTH (that's right, less than 10%) of the USA's, ok bub. Oh yeah, and let's not forget Denmark's ingenious use of that b/s form of democracy so common in the "ultra-civilized" region of Scandinavian Europe commonly referred to as a constitutional monarchy. Oh please Denmark, show us measely Americans the path to developement!!!!
Backhanding the left into submission, one activist judge at a time.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:12 am

Depressing to see Americans defend such a sick system.

Had it been a 3rd or 4th time offence. Or had it been for obvious economic gain. Or had it been generally illegal stuff - (Customs172 almost makes comparison between an apple and a crack pipe), then it would have been a different issue.

A forgotten apple, $500 fine, it's sick.

A sensible legal system warns and fines incidental offenders for making them remember the rules in the future, not for starving them and their kids. It is a very simple rule which is obeyed by every single developed country in the world.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
n757kw
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:15 am

Just curious, does England have the same restriction on fresh fruits and meats? If so, the F/A could have very easily have brought a harmful insect to England. Since apparently according to the article, the apple made the round trip.

Working for an Asian carrier in ATL, I have seen the results of USDA collecting fresh fruits, meats, cheese, and all sorts of other items that are not permitted into the US.

Always watch what you take overseas, and what you bring back!
"What we've got here, is failure to communicate." from Cool Hand Luke
 
Customs172
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:20 am

Apple, Crack Pipe,They are both illegal to bring into a country.... Here we even have a big poster on the wall for people like that FA and people like you to see, so that you know what must be declared. It even says "failure to report any items listed to a Customs Inspector can result in Min. $500.00 fine, or prosecution.
What more do you need.

[Edited 2003-09-18 00:20:40]
 
AWspicious
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:21 am

The lights dim as the iron curtain slowly decends...

:-|

[Edited 2003-09-18 00:28:35]
Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!
 
ILoveORD
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:36 am

I think it's depressing that there are some begrudging foreigners out there who are using this F/A's unfortunate situation to voice their anti-American views and justify their outlandish and fatuous ideas about the American legal system.


[Edited 2003-09-18 00:40:50]
Backhanding the left into submission, one activist judge at a time.
 
cancidas
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:43 am

that's seriously ludicrous!  Pissed
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jahckass
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:45 am

I still dont get why the crack pipe person went to jail. you said that he DID declared it right?
 
AWspicious
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:48 am

"I think it's depressing that there are some begrudging foreigners out there who are using this F/A's unfortunate situation to voice their anti-American views and justify their outlandish and fatuous ideas about the American legal system."

Yup... I agree. I think what's even more depressing is when Americans do it. (Thinks back to Oklahoma)
Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!
 
Customs172
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:51 am

Jahckass
Sorry about that, let me explain a bit more. Im a US Military Customs Inspector on a Military base. The person that declared the crack pipe was an active duty Marine. In the military possesion on drugs or pariphinalia will get you a good ole trip to the brig. Last I heard he's doing 1 year and a dishonorable discharge. I think he was just trying to get out of the Military.

[Edited 2003-09-18 00:52:51]
 
prebennorholm
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:55 am

Dear N757KW, yes, it's a general world wide rule that you don't bring fresh food uncontrolled between continents. And a very good (and old) rule indeed. It's nothing specially American.

You shall not forget an apple or raisin in your pocket!!! There is no question about that.

The question is only that if it happens to you anyway, then be sure to carry a large stack of green notes in the other pocket, or be absolutely sure that your plane doesn't land in Moscow or Cincinnati.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
jjbiv
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:38 am

What about the catering on-board the aircraft? How about the food in her stomach? Should we be declaring the contents of our colons when clearing customs? Yes, even gov't employees need to use common sense. Let's get real here.

Had it been me, I simply would have consumed the apple.

joe
 
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:58 am

A sensible legal system warns and fines incidental offenders for making them remember the rules in the future

Which would require a database to list all incidental offenders, with each Customs officer taking time to check it when someone does bring an apple or whatever through. This would take valuable time, causing lengthy delays for travelers.

"Well Ms.Smith, since it's your first offen....WHOA! The computer here says that this is actually the second time, so now you've gotta pay..."

What about the catering on-board the aircraft?

All trash on inbound international flights is incinerated upon arrival in the U.S.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
frntman
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 9:07 am

Maybe I'm way off base on this one, but don't you abide by the rules of whatever country you're in whether you agree with them or not?

I remember waiting in an immigration line in CAI and there is an extremely large sign indicating what certain Egyptian laws are regarding smuggling and the penalties associated with them. Let's just say the penalties are much harsher than a $500 fine!
 
Birdwatching
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 9:08 am

Jjbiv: The law is that when travelling into the US, within the next 48 hours of passing immigration (NOT customs), anything you drop into a toilet within US territory has to be put into a yellow bag available at customs and mailed to the US Department of Agriculture. Then they color-code each passenger, according to their biologic threat level. The whole program costs $300 billion a year which comes from Homeland Security funds, and which could have been used for education or health care  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Sorry, please don't get me wrong, I love the USA. (I swear I do)
Was just so tempted to write this...  Big thumbs up

Birdwatching
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SPLOBKrakow
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:06 am

thats a funny story!!!!
Cheking flight atterndant is one thing, but giving them a fine for forgeting something in the suitcase that rediculus. And the whole sticker part of the story....funny. This customs guard she dealt with was a total idiot.

Mind you , US is so paraniod of everything that is shipped on planes after 9/11, but before that they trained pilots in their own country which ended up destroying the WTC

I understand that the customs officer had the right intention, but he should really focus on more important issues.
 
delta-flyer
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:10 am

Well, of course she "broke the rules" by absent-mindedly bringing an apple into the US. I am sure than no one will disagree that it was a perfectly honest mistake.

Now, when a common citizen makes a perfectly honest mistake and gets caught, there is hell to pay. But what if it is someone in authority who makes a mistake, we hardly ever get even a "sorry", not to mention some form of recourse.

I think we should be extremely critical when people with authority make mistakes, and cut them no slack. Perhaps that may make them think a bit.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
BD1959
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:15 am

Give her a break. This was her first offence - it was an American Apple - and before anyone starts berating Australia's fruit laws (actually it's individual States here), I'd hope that compasion would be shown to this individual - yes, I'm convinced she'd still remember to recheck her bags if with only a $10 fine.

IloveORD: I think it's depressing that there are some begrudging foreigners out there who are using this F/A's unfortunate situation to voice their anti-American views and justify their outlandish and fatuous ideas about the American legal system

Sorry mate, but you Yanks do a good enough job yourselves. From the same edition of the Kansas City Star (I really did't have to look far!!) is a story of a crack dealer who sold crack from a preschool and was given a bond and second chance.

Makes $500 for an Apple look very outlandish and fatuous.

BD1959
 
kosmonaute
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:00 pm

Because the last time I checked, Denmark's national GDP was barely a TENTH (that's right, less than 10%) of the USA's, ok bub

Yes...but let's remember that Denmark has a population that is about 285 million less than that of the United States', and the average annual income in the United States is only about $3000 to $4000 more than Denmark's, which, in my humble opinion, is pretty impressive for a country of only 5 million people [not to mention they don't have the largest gap of wealth in the world].

Oh yeah, and let's not forget Denmark's ingenious use of that b/s form of democracy so common in the "ultra-civilized" region of Scandinavian Europe commonly referred to as a constitutional monarchy.

As far as my knowledge goes, Denmark, or any of the Nordic nations for that matter, do not come close to the political corruption that the United States has [assinations aside....], and the fact that political figures are so accessible I think makes this "ultra-civilized" region just that. And more democratic as well. Plus, I like all of the royal families in Scandinavia.

As for the FA....I think it's pretty ridiculous, but unfortunately, a law is a law.
Burning airlines give you so much more.
 
L-188
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:54 pm

Although the Customs inspector was well within his rights to seize the apple and fine the F/A (The apple had been overseas so for customs purposes, it should be considered, "contaminated or Foregin")

The fine I don't.

There are some things that deserve fines, but this simply should have been handled by letting her throw in into the international trash bin to be incinerated.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ILoveORD
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RE: FA Fined $500 For An Apple

Thu Sep 18, 2003 1:23 pm

Kosmonaute,

"Yes...but let's remember that Denmark has a population that is about 285 million less than that of the United States', and the average annual income in the United States is only about $3000 to $4000 more than Denmark's, which, in my humble opinion, is pretty impressive for a country of only 5 million people [not to mention they don't have the largest gap of wealth in the world]. "

First of all, when you think about the fact that former some former communist European countries (such as Poland, Czech Repulic) have, in a little over a decade, been able to achieve national GDPs as large or larger than that of Denmark's (while is has taken Denmark the better part of a century) hardly makes it seem remarkable. Additionaly, the per capita GDP of Denmark is actually $8000-$9000 less in 2002 (www.cia.gov). A hefty sum if you ask me...? Oh yeah, and just because our rich are richer than Demark's rich, doesn't nessarilly make our poor, poorer. Read me?

"As far as my knowledge goes, Denmark, or any of the Nordic nations for that matter, do not come close to the political corruption that the United States has [assinations aside....], and the fact that political figures are so accessible I think makes this "ultra-civilized" region just that. And more democratic as well."

You know, I really question your knowledge of the Nordic nations, because before you heap "ungarnished" praise this "ideally" democratic nation, read of some of these excerpts relating to Denmark's recent xenophobic, and might I add, RACIST, political trends that are rocking Europe by storm (if you read even ONE of these, make it the L.A. times quote):


Günther Grass:
»The Danes have far fewer immigrants and refugees than Germany, but even so, the Danes react hysterically and vote for an extreme right-wing, racist party. (...) Denmark, which was formerly known for its tolerance, now has racists taking part in a government which pursues a policy that is hostile to foreigners.« (August 30, 2002, the Danish newspaper 'Information').

Neue Zürcher Zeitung:
»By court order, the head of the DPP, Pia Kjaersgaard, may not be labeled "racist," but she keeps things humming in her own party's ranks with frequent xenophobic utterances. Late this past May, referring to Sweden's relatively open policy toward foreigners, Kjaersgaard remarked that the Stockholm regime was perfectly free to let Swedish cities become Scandinavian Beiruts, replete with mass rapes, revenge killings and clan wars.« (June 19, 2002).

Financial Times:
»While most Danes would be loath to admit it, there are some uncomfortable parallels between the new measures [den danske udlændingelov] and some of Mr. Le Pen’s stated policies.« (May 3, 2002).

The New York Times:
»The news from Europe sounds grim. (…) The ultranationalist, xenophobic right is manifestly on the rise.« (April 28, 2002).

Washington Post:
»A wave of anti-Muslim sentiment has bolstered far-right parties in some European countries since Sept. 11 and left the continent's large communities of foreigners wondering how long their welcome will last. The changing mood has found its fullest political expression here in Denmark, where an anti-immigrant party won 12 percent of the vote in parliamentary elections in November, nearly doubling its showing from the previous election. Its campaign posters featured a picture of a young blond girl and the slogan: "When she retires, Denmark will have a Muslim majority.« (March 29, 2002).

L.A. Times:
»Nowhere else in Europe has the anti-immigration rhetoric ascended to such heights. A small organization preaching multicultural tolerance mocked Danes' prejudices this year by erecting billboards that showed a black youth saying, 'When I become white, I'll be a schoolteacher.' Activists in the Danish People's Party responded with a parody showing a homeless white man saying, 'When I become a Muslim, I'll have a house,' echoing the party's refrain that immigrants are edging out Danes for housing and social services.« (April 28, 2000).

Liberation:
»This brutal xenophobia is all the much more striking because it appears in a place where you would not expect it. In a kingdom which stands as a severe judge of human rights … and where scarcely 4,4 percent of the population are foreigners.« (Translated from the Danish newspaper Berlingske Tidende, November 20, 1997).


PS If you see her, give my regards to the queen....



[Edited 2003-09-18 06:24:52]
Backhanding the left into submission, one activist judge at a time.