La Carlota
Topic Author
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2001 9:17 pm

AA Flight, F-15 Fighters Nearly Collide

Thu Sep 18, 2003 9:42 pm

From CNN:

American Airlines Flight 490 nearly collided with three military F-15 jet fighters over the skies of Oklahoma Tuesday.
But a disaster was averted when the commercial airliner's on-board collision avoidance system warned the plane to rapidly descend to get out of the flight path of the military jets.
An informed source said initially that an FAA air traffic controller was believed to have made a mistake, but an operational error on the part of the military pilots could not yet be ruled out.
The incident happened about 3 p.m. Tuesday about 15 miles northwest of Tulsa, according to FAA spokesman Tony Molinaro.
The American Airlines MD-80 was flying from Oklahoma City to St. Louis with 86 passengers and five crew members when the captain reported that the plane's Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance System (TCAS) warned the plane of heavy traffic in the area, according to American Airlines spokesman Julia Bishop-Cross.
Bishop-Cross said a short time later the system ordered the cockpit to make an immediate descent.
The military F-15s were on their way to Tinker Air Force Base, according to the FAA.
The plane landed at its destination, and four people were taken to the hospital, including a passenger not wearing a seat belt and three flight attendants who were standing at the time of the incident and hit their heads on the cabin ceiling.
Most commercial airplanes are equipped with the TCAS system, which works independently of air traffic control to warn planes of possible midair collisions.
Typically, air traffic controllers would be alerted to military planes in their region and would be responsible for directing them away from commercial air traffic, the FAA said.
Tango Tango Fox
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: AA Flight, F-15 Fighters Nearly Collide

Thu Sep 18, 2003 10:11 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if it is the military fighters who are at fault. They were probably up there hotdogging again.
 
rj777
Posts: 1549
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 1:47 am

RE: AA Flight, F-15 Fighters Nearly Collide

Thu Sep 18, 2003 10:28 pm

"Mig 28's and No One's been this close before!
-Goose from "Top Gun"
 
trnswrld
Posts: 1068
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 2:19 am

RE: AA Flight, F-15 Fighters Nearly Collide

Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:40 am

Must have been a rush for those passengers to feel that negative G when the pilot pushed the yoke forward fast Smile/happy/getting dizzy Unfortunately theres those people that dont wear seatbelts and the ones that just happen to be standing at that point. Hope there ok!
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3454
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: AA Flight, F-15 Fighters Nearly Collide

Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:49 am

It's been my experience that military pilots don't alter course for anything or anybody. I have found myself several times head to head with Sea Hawk helicopters down here...they seem to enjoy playing aerial "chicken"...I take evasive action according to the books and each time, they've just continued on their path...it's like they don't even see me, but I don't know how that is...

Must have been a rush for those passengers to feel that negative G when the pilot pushed the yoke forward fast Unfortunately theres those people that dont wear seatbelts and the ones that just happen to be standing at that point.

Yeah, I almost hear a lawsuit from that passenger sitting down without his seatbelt fastened...but I imagine it would be thrown out, since the airline always makes a point of pointing that out...
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: AA Flight, F-15 Fighters Nearly Collide

Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:13 pm

I hate to bring this up, but tahts scary!! As I just flew that route OKC-STL on American Airlines two weeks before that happened!!! I visited Tinker Air Force base and my cousin who works there said they have to eb careful as of its close location to OKC airport!!! Thats a little nerve wracking!!

Alex.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
Gnomon
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 1999 12:38 pm

RE: AA Flight, F-15 Fighters Nearly Collide

Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:22 pm

JBirdAV8r --

Me and thee, brother. Several times, I've been much closer to military aircraft than I would have preferred. Some of those guys like to try to prove that they're hot shots. Becomes a real pain in the ass for Cessna drivers like myself.
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2820
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

F-15 Vs 757

Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:31 pm

I think it was more the tower's fault.

They cleared the Eagles to do a midfield break as always and had cleared the 757 to land. I don't care what kind of aircraft you're in, you aren't going to see behind you when you're in a 45 degree turn. The 757 should have seen the tactical traffic miles out. I was at listening to my scanner when it happened. There is tons of military traffic at STL because of Boeing's presence and the 131st Fighter Wing of the Missouri Air National Guard being based here. Most of those F-15 drivers in the guard are airline pilots as well, I've seen them deviate a couple times here.

Get this, in the same week a 182 ground looped here and there was a cabin fire on an MD-80 at a gate. Fire and Rescue was busier than usual!!
DMI
 
thaigold
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:22 pm

RE: AA Flight, F-15 Fighters Nearly Collide

Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:40 pm

How steep would an "immediate decent" be - must be pretty steep for FA's to hit their heads against the ceiling.

Also how much do they decent? And how much time warning does the system give?? I would imagine that the pilots don't get that much time to think about it but would have to do it by reflex....
Dunbar Rovers forever
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: AA Flight, F-15 Fighters Nearly Collide

Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:47 pm

if you noticed....pilotpip

It was near TUL in OKLAHOMA!!! no where near STL, and the aircraft was an MD-80 NOT a 757 and it was getting near cruising altitude the plane was not near landing.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2820
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

RE: AA Flight, F-15 Fighters Nearly Collide

Thu Sep 25, 2003 2:40 pm

My mistake. I heard them calling the tower about ambulances standing by. They explained it in short. Only a couple minutes before they landed some F-15s were in the pattern. I had thought it happened there. Regardless, the firefighters were busy that day. Guess I should read the thread first  Smile
DMI
 
JMChladek
Posts: 320
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 4:05 pm

RE: AA Flight, F-15 Fighters Nearly Collide

Thu Sep 25, 2003 4:37 pm

Its way too early in the investigation to be pointing fingers on who was at fault and F-15s on ferry flights (as it sounded like this was) usually aren't hot dogging, but following the flight path they've been assigned to. The controller could be at fault, yes. But if it was the fault of the military pilots, then it would be probably a deal where the flight lead would have drifted to an altitude he wasn't supposed to and the guys following would be concentrating more on following the leader and keeping formation rather then their own altitude.

So I would encourage that talk about "hot dog" pilots gets stowed until the investigation is concluded. At least the TCAS did its job and all we have are injuries rather then potential deaths.

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