Usairwys757
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Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:41 am

Which big airlines operate out of the worst hubs? I think personally CO and EWR make for a pretty bad combonation.
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CALMSP
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:43 am

I think that AA & UA although have just as many problems if not more, just due to the congestion with all the other airlines that occupy the airport.
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:48 am

Probably SFO for UA...given the weather and flow control delays. I avoid that place whenever humanly possible. DEN and ORD aren't fun places to be during a winter storm, either.
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argento
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:19 am



VARIG & GRU

International terminal at night it is some of the worst place to connect another flight.
 
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STT757
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:21 am

CO's EWR hub is their most profitable hub, it's also one of the most profitable hubs in the Country.

I would call CO's EWR hub a resounding success.
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N766UA
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:33 am

EWR is a dump, though. It's definatly not my choice of an Atlantic gateway.
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Usairwys757
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:34 am

Exactly what i was referring to N766UA. I was meaning its in really bad shape and its very ugly.
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CALMSP
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:35 am

EWR has the most transatlantic flts of any airline at a hub. Dump? The facilities in EWR are amazing.
 
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:39 am

The old DTW terminal for NW was horrible. There new one is beautiful, a real treat to fly to
 
ScottB
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:53 am

CO's EWR facility is a gleaming palace compared to AA's hub facilities at MIA. Now *THAT* is what I call a dump.

AA's DFW terminals are poorly designed for hub operations but the interiors are in good shape.
 
SwissINTLA340
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:00 am

NW's Minneapolis

UA's SFO and DEN
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cba
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:03 am

The old EWR may have been a dump, but I was just there last December, and the new rennovated Terminal C is a fabulous hub.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:16 am

Ill put my 2 cents in here.

Old NW DTW was really horrible, this has now been resolved to say the least.

I hear many people from this area bitch and bitch about UA at ORD, but to me, the place is paradise. Guess its all in the eye of the beholder.

While SFO has its share of weather issues, after flying from all the terminals, i think UA T3 is the best of the domestic terminals by far, except arrivals late at night can get really busy. I think the worst by far UA hub would be IAD.



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F9Widebody
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:23 am

Just curious SwissIntlA340, what don't you like about DEN? I have flown to quite a few airports, and it is easily my favorite. It's clean, modern, and nice to look at. I also think they do just as good of a job clearing snow as in MSP. Go figure.
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StevenUhl777
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:27 am

I think we need to separate what hub is easy on the eyes architectually speaking, etc. vs. ease of use while in transit.

ORD and DEN terminals for UA are GREAT....but in a winter storm, last place I'd want to be...
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:32 am

In some respects, Delta's hub @ ATL is not as great as it appears. With Delta operations all over the airport, on every concourse (this includes Delta Connection ops on C and D), long connections are common. If you have to transfer from T to E, you've got a long haul to get there. Even if your connection is one the same concourse as your inbound, you may have to trek from one end to the other, which is a good walk in itself.
 
ScottB
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:55 am

Not that I am a huge fan of ATL, but I think that ATL (and Delta's hub there) is a resounding success given what it accomplishes. Delta operates roughly 900 daily mainline and Delta Connection departures there; it is the largest single-airline hub in the world (and accomodates the most passengers on an annual basis). The fact that you *can* transfer from one end of T to the far end of E in 30 minutes is, I think, a testament to the soundness of the design of the terminal complex. And while I'm sure that Delta would LOVE to trade its gates on the D concourse for the C concourse and T gates it doesn't have, I doubt the other airlines would be too happy to go along with that. I believe Delta actually *did* want to take over what are now AirTran's C concourse gates when they became available as part of the Eastern bankruptcy estate, but they Delta was not allowed to. I think adding moving sidewalks to the concourses would improve the design by reducing walking distances, and certain areas need some cleaning up, but all in all the airport works well.

Moreover, the ATL airport design has been widely copied at other large airports like DEN, IAD, CVG, ORD (Terminal 1), and JFK (new Terminal 8) -- and I believe that's also an indication of the efficiency of the design in handling large traffic volumes.
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:09 am


What I dislike about DEN is that each Concourse could have up to 100 gates (per the signs in the each concourse). Yet, they only built one escalator to go up and down to the trains on each side of the train stations. Seems stupid to not have double escalators because I seem to always get stuck in a bottleneck even though there is not even close to that many gates.

DEN also is fixing one of the most stupid design problems they had - the area you stood to get the rental car shuttles had NO covering. So, you had to stand out in the elements.
 
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:34 am

ATA Hub at MDW is an armpit.. It smells like a combination of mildew and jet fuel not to mention the fact its pushing 60 years old and probably has not been renovated in 2 decades.. They are doing a new add on that looks decent however.. And the old NW terminal at DTW... Well when the earth farts I am thinking it comes out there
 
F9Widebody
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:46 am

I believe DEN does have double escalators up AND down, but only on Concourse B.
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andersjt
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:49 am

I have heard B6's hub at LGB is no picnic. Oops, my bad, this thread was about the majors. Sorry!

Come on guys, don't pick on DEN, its fantastic. It is certainly better now than when operating out of Stapleton.

[Edited 2003-09-19 01:51:15]
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tommy767
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:55 am

No affense to AA, but the terminal 9 JFK terminal is a dump! They are builing a new AA terminal right on top of the crappy old one, and they have only "Fridays" on the domestic concorse (gates 40-48.) Check in counters are old, and the baggage claim is right next to it.

ORD for UA is not that great considering the weather.

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deltaffindfw
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:56 am


I'm not picking on DEN - overall it is a nice airport. It just irks me that we (the entire country) paid WAY too much money for this huge airport with lots of bells and whistles, some that didn't work (baggage sytem), while the real gateway airports are in dire need to updating (ORD, LAX for example). Just because Federico Pena was a former mayor and then DOT chairman gave them all the money they wanted.
 
jjbiv
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:03 am

Earth to Startvalve! ATA has been in the new terminal at MDW since October, 2001... The hub is quite nice now considering the land lock MDW is under.

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Usairwys757
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:05 am

I like DEN alot and I think that UA has a great hub there. But you have to agree it is kind of BIG. Nothing against DEN, i think its a beautiful place. Its just kind of big for a hub.
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B4REAL
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:41 am

N766UA - EWR - I like it. ?

SFO - Bad
CVG - Good
ATL - Good & Bad - All Hell in A-T-L if it rains, cumbersome to traverse at times

ORD - Good, but crowded
PIT - Okay, a lot of walking. Bad for tight cnxns
DTW (new) - Super yummy, lacks food in terminal I think (all have lines)
MSP - A little big, inconsistent feel to the terminals
SFO, SEA - I don't like
LAX - Okay as O&D, never made cnxn
DFW - Better than it used to be. AA bad if you have to change terminals, DL okay there.
JFK - Okay until you try customs and luggage
BOS - zoo
PHL - Okay for the East coast
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HlywdCatft
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:47 am

Any hub that UA operates out of.
 
klwright69
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:03 am

There is no comparison between the old DEN Stapleton and the new airport. However the new Denver airport has FEWER gates than the old Stapleton.....
Hard to believe but a fact!

 
hartsfieldboy
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:39 am

Due to the large operations at ATL, there is no way you could have an airport of that size and not have people walk a few long distances. Not everything can be within a two-minute walk/ride like, say, MCO because that's impossible. However, the layout is perfect for the type of operations ATL sees, it doesn't get any better than that. I heard that concourse E is supposed to get moving sidewalks in the corridors when the new terminal is completed. Concourses A, B and C look wide enough to handle moving sidewalks, but D most definitely is too narrow.

 
redngold
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:45 am

Well, as much of a booster I am for my home airport, I'm really surprised nobody has mentioned CLE.

Concourse C was built a long time ago and apparently the floors aren't reinforced enough to hold the weight of a moving sidewalk. It is the longest concourse in the airport. This is the concourse where Continental has all of its operations (except for the inbound CO 66 LGW-CLE, which docks at A14 for customs.) Concourse D is beautiful, but to get there you have to walk 1/3 the length of Concourse C before going into the tunnel.

A temporary solution would be for Continental and/or CLE's administration to set up an electric cart service for anyone who wants a ride to their gate. Unfortunately that might be difficult because the concourse is also rather narrow. Perhaps they could set up a cart lane in the middle of the concourse. I don't know.

Anyway, that's my beef with CLE. Luckily I always get to the airport with plenty of time to spare, so I don't have to rush the length of the concourse.


redngold
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STT757
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:22 pm

CO's Terminal C is very modern, and it's retail stores are the highest grossing in the Nation, CO's C-3 has it's own International Arrivals hall.

Domestic and International arrivals use the same gates, same terminal International/domestic connections.



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Alpha 1
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:26 pm

Which big airlines operate out of the worst hubs? I think personally CO and EWR make for a pretty bad combonation.

ROTFL. And it's so bad that almost every other carrier would KILL to have EWR has a hub, because it's located in NYC. Some people need to get a reality check!!  Laugh out loud

EWR is a dump, though. It's definatly not my choice of an Atlantic gateway.

Maybe A and B Terminals are. Lord knows they were when CO used them 15 years ago. But Terminal C is certainly no dump. It's spacious, bright, with lots of shops, and it's really not hard to get around. Again, you must be thinking of a different EWR than me, N766UA.  Smile
 
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STT757
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:29 pm

The airline with the worst hubs is without a doubt Us Airways, Pittsburgh's population is actually shrinking every year.

Charlotte has the lowest RASM in the Country, it's actually one of the poorest revenue generating hubs. It's only saving grace is it's geographic location which allows for good North/South Connections, it's O&D revenue is terrible.

And Philadelphia's facilities are worse than EWR, BWI, IAD, BOS etc.
The parking garages are a rediculous mess, the new International terminal is nice but it's not in the same league as CO's C-3 concourse, AA's new JFK Terminal etc.

Also Philadelphia is a big town ( I was working in Society Hill the other day) but it lacks the strong International draw of MIA, IAD, EWR, JFK, BOS, ORD etc.

Even Atlanta gets more International carriers than Philly.
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Paddy
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:48 pm


B4real: I pretty much agree with your choices

MSP: you are right on the money. It is a bit spread out. Seemed like I was on the conveyor belt forever last time I connected there. Its also a bitch in the winter. I've been stuck in an plane circling the place for 30+ mins on more than one occasion. Can't land when there's snow on the runway.

BOS: is indeed a zoo. I wasn't surprised that one of the 9/11 planes originated there. I've had weather related delays flying into there as well.

SEA isn't so bad. Although, taking the train out to the satellite terminal is a drag, especially at busier times.

Here is one you missed:

DL's SLC hub seems like a waste of time to me. Its a pain in the arse when I have to stop there, especially in winter. One positive thing is that the scenery is gorgeous in winter. That's about the only plus I see about flying through that place.
 
Seattle Ops
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:08 pm

"ORD is bad when there is weather".......what airport isnt bad when theres weather? DEN is a wonderful airport...if you stay in the B concourse.
 
ScottB
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:34 pm

Well, I would have *DEFINITELY* mentioned BOS before if I considered it a real hub for anyone. BOS probably has the worst facilities -- bar none -- of any major airport in the United States, with the possible exception of LGA and certain terminals at JFK. Transportation between the terminals and to public transit is via woefully overcrowded buses, and the airport subway station (soon to be replaced, thank goodness) is embarassing.

The freaking BUS STATION at South Station is nicer and more modern than American's half of Terminal B, all of Terminal C, and Terminal D (which looks like a nasty bus station itself). The inadequate facilities mean long security lines and standing while waiting for flights since the departure lounges are too small.

Now, I have heard the expanded Terminal E is an improvement, and the new Terminal A ought to be a nice facility. But at present Logan Airport is an embarassment -- and that's even before you talk about the problems with the airfield.
 
gigneil
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:42 pm

UA's SFO and DEN

ORD is a beautiful hub, but a nightmare. I fly in every time wondering if I'm going to fly out.

DEN I disagree with. DEN is a stunning example of the most modern hub in the world, especially during a winter storm.

That's not saying I'd want to fly there during a big snow in, but I'd rather fly there than ORD or another midwest city during snow.


To my actual contribution. Dulles is just horrible for United mainline. The concourses are narrow, short, and dingy. During 1999 and 2000, when UA really ramped up ops there, it was a nightmare of people inside.

Its also WAY too long to connect from C4 to D1 on United. There's about 5 feet of moving walkway. Great, thanks MWAA.

It was supposed to be temporary, and a new shining set of concourses a'la Concourse B. Hope to see that someday.

N
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:41 pm

BA at LHR, no question at all.

Operations are split across 3 (count 'em 3) unconnected terminals - terminals that have accreted like a cancer over the years and are completely un-user friendly, over-crowded, understaffed and have every spare inch of space covered in unnecessary retail outlets. Ground transportation is a joke unless you want to get to Central London (quite a lot of people don't, amazingly enough). Transfers are a nightmare, standing around in the freezing cold waiting for the illusory bus. LHR SUX !
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:49 pm

RE: hub facilities that are dumps

PHL wins, followed by IAH and MEM.
 
ckfred
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:53 pm

AA at LAX was a pain if connecting between Terminals 3 and 4. The shuttle bus never came, and the hike past the Bradley Terminal with a non-wheeled bag was long. Now, that AA is consolidated into T4, that's no longer a problem.

I've heard that AA at MIA is a dump, but there is a long-term (We're talking like 10 years) to modernize the the terminal and concourses. Considering that the airport screwed up the new tower, it's going to be a long, long process.

Back when AA owned a part of Canadian, connecting at YYZ was easy. Intra-Canada flights were on one side of the concourse. Trans-border flights were on the other. The only problem was that Canadian F/As would forget to tell passengers that checked baggage going on the the U.S. came off on a carousel in front of the entrance to U.S. Customs, on the departure level. People thought either a) the bags came off the carousel in the baggage claim, or b) they came off inside Customs.
 
Usairwys757
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:18 pm

I agree with AA and MIA, MIA is really in bad shape....its even worse than EWR. So AA and MIA ae a pretty bad combonation too.
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DAL12
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:06 am

Worst is Northwest and MEM -- A good reason why I could never see Northwest as anything other than a second rate airline
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:13 am

Virgin Atlantic Airways Limited and London Heathrow.

What a cramped airport. Needless to say, the enthusiasm of departing from and arriving in to Heathrow is about as voluminous as half an atom created by atomic fission.

Dingy and dark, public areas have the ambience of the underground during rush hour.

However, they don't care. LHR is the world's most major hub. And we just keep using it. Oh well.
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Fly_ATA
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:29 am

Startvalve must be living under a rock somewhere...

ATA has been in place at the NEW MDW airport for sometime, and I have to say it's quite nice.
 
jcs17
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:43 am

EWR is fine for connecting flights on CO, I have never had a problem there. The signs and facilities are very good, and the new shops are pretty nice, as well.

MIA sucks (AA), LGW and LHR sucks (BA), DFW sucks (AA). There are quite a few hubs that are relatively convenient, but the facilities are absolutely atrocious.
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bmacleod
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:44 am

I don't see Canadian airports mentioned here, but I'll just say that YYZ (Toronto) is the worst by far.

I've been to YUL twice (Montreal), it seems OK.

I haven't been to YVR (Vancouver), but I've heard it's probably the best in Canada.
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Guest

RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:27 pm

Worst is Northwest and MEM -- A good reason why I could never see Northwest as anything other than a second rate airline.

That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on a.net -- STL, IAH and PHL are just as bad (or worse) facilities than MEM & they house more significant operations for their respective hub carriers -- does that make AA, CO and US second-rate carriers as well?
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:41 pm

Regarding the US/UA hubs (specifically PHL, CLT, and ORD), PHL is bad...badly spread out, trying to go from A-West (or, for that matter, any non-Express gate) to the F (Express) gates can be absolute hell on a tight connection...CLT is laid out great...never had a problem there, hopefully never will...ORD is actually great in fair weather (provided you didn't fly into or out of the F terminal), but I'm dreading the flights I have booked through there on Boxing Day and New Year's Eve...although LGA is no picnic either, even as an outgoing/incoming passenger (never had to connect there...home airport)...as for others...MIA's AA terminal is badly spread out and can be hell, and ATL is absolute hell...can't say I've ever been in any of the other major hubs...BTW, what does AA now consider their hubs...it's not really clearly laid out on their route maps, and it's been ages since I've flown them...as far as I can tell, their domestic hubs are DFW, STL, ORD, BOS, LGA...can't really tell besides that...surprised they don't include LAX but they do BOS and LGA...somebody try to help me on that please...thanks...
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ha763
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Sat Sep 20, 2003 5:06 pm

If going strictly by the shape of the terminals, CO at IAH's Terminal C is in pretty bad shape. The concourses smelled moldy and many of the windows also were moldy due to condensation being on the windows all day. Plus, the two different restrooms I used in between my connecting flights each had a few urinals that either was backed up and overflowed or didn't flush and smelled pretty bad.
 
triley1057
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RE: Which Big Airlines Have The Worst Hubs?

Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:03 pm

I agree that the current condition of Terminal C at IAH is a dump but if you travel through there anytime soon, check out Terminal E. It's pretty impressive. Terminal C is about to get a major overhaul and when it is done you will have an outstanding hub for a great airline.