Pe@rson
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Non-stop Flights Between India And The USA And Can

Fri Sep 19, 2003 10:44 am

Ignoring demand and concentrating on performance, would it not be possible for there to be non-stop flights between both DEL and BOM and, say, JFK, ORD, YYZ, YVR and SFO, using the "ultra long-haul" A340s and without any weight restrictions?

For example, the DEL and BOM to JFK service could route over northern Sweden and Norway, then over Greenland, which would be about 6350nms and perhaps 13 hours. The DEL and BOM to SFO services could fly over Krasnoyarsk and the New Siberian Islands before entering Alaska via Barrow or somewhere and continuing down to SFO? This would be about 6700kms and take perhaps 13.5-14 hours.

Obviously, I know nothing about flight planning, so do realise this and also realise that I know Canada 3000 operated its 340s between YYZ and YVR and India.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
spyderz
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RE: Non-stop Flights Between India And The USA And Can

Fri Sep 19, 2003 10:52 am

Well Air Canada is going to fly YYZ-DEL using their 343's going directly north I believe. I don't know about payload restrictions but that is one mightly long flight. I also read about a series of charters by Canadian Western Airlines using leased 744's to go nonstop to DEL from Vancouver.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Non-stop Flights Between India And The USA And Can

Fri Sep 19, 2003 10:58 am

The flights should be about as long as MH's EWR-DXB. But yeah, damn long.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
KQ777
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RE: Non-stop Flights Between India And The USA And Can

Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:06 am

This brings up something I have never understood: if DXB to EWR is possible with a 777-200ER, then why does EK need to wait for the A340-500 to inaugurate service to JFK? And on that topic, here's another question: does anyone think that there's a chance of DL ever reopening JFK to DXB? They served DXB via Cairo briefly before 9/11 with an MD11. No US airline now serves the Middle East, aside from Tel Aviv or Istanbul, which I consider the Near East.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Non-stop Flights Between India And The USA And Can

Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:13 am

Actually, the "Near East" is Eastern Europe, for example Bulgaria, Romania, etc etc.

Geographically, Israel is a part of the Middle East, although cultually, aside from the arabs, it is perhaps more European.

Istanbul is virtually half in Eastern Europe and half in the Middle East. So a small part of Turkey is in Europe, with the majority in the M.E.

[Edited 2003-09-19 04:18:18]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
KQ777
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RE: Non-stop Flights Between India And The USA And Can

Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:23 am

FYI: There is no official classification scheme for this region of the world. For instance, Egypt is often referred to as being part of the Middle East even though it is clearly on the continent of Africa. Other examples: Iran is sometimes considered part of the Middle East, other times referred to as Central Asia. In my opinion, nations which border the Med. are not really part of the Middle East but the near east, including Jordan, Lebanon, and Israel.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Non-stop Flights Between India And The USA And Can

Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:32 am

Taking your Egyptian example, you will find that whilst it is geographically a part of Africa, it is vastly an Arab country, hence cultually it is a part of the Middle East. The same is true for all the North African countries.

The vast majority of the inhabitants of Jordan and Lebanon are Arabs. Consequently, I consider these countries a part of the Middle East.

This all proves our point: we base our decisions upon different criteria.

Anyway, moving on...
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Airbus Lover
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RE: Non-stop Flights Between India And The USA And Can

Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:35 pm

MH's DXB-EWR vv services are weight restricted i believe, esp during certain season of the year.

EK would like to fly the A345 on this route to make it non stop year round. Since they are the handling agents in DXB for MH's flight, they know that MH needs a payload restriction sometimes to fly the plane non stop.
 
kdonohue
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RE: Non-stop Flights Between India And The USA And Can

Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:58 pm

All this talk of Near East is very Anglo-centric

From where I am in Vancouver the "Far East" is really the "Far West"

 
IndianFlyboy
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RE: Non-stop Flights Between India And The USA And Can

Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:05 pm

Yup this is indeed possible , United was to start non stops from US to DEL and BOM but this was pre 9/11 , all plans got shelved later on for obvious reasons. Sean would be the best person to answer this . but one of the reasons for the AI 772 LR interest was non stops between India and the US.

As of now load restricted 343's , 744's ,772 LR, 773 . 345,346's all are capable of doing these routes. No doubt there is an amazing demand but there are other things which come into play. Since all these routes will fly directly over the North Pole, using the great circle mapper , I would presume HF links would be required on all these aircrafts (United , when it was planning these routes, was talking to Iridium for coverage beyond 82 deg N) The other thing is alternate landing spots on the routes in the event of emergencies. The last thing required would be overflying rights for the airlines.

I travel pretty frequently between DEL and SFO , and believe me I for one would love a non stop between these 2 places.

Anyway , my 2 cents.

Regards
 
Guest

RE: Non-stop Flights Between India And The USA And Can

Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:12 pm

Kdonohue: "All this talk of Near East is very Anglo-centric. From where I am in Vancouver the "Far East" is really the "Far West" "

Hehe, that's right. We have that problem since we all know that earth isn't a disk.

And when people are talking about "west coast" they think that there is only one west-coast in the world.

Also meaning "Middle East": for us europeans it's Near-East ...

 
IndianGuy
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RE: Non-stop Flights Between India And The USA And Can

Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:35 pm

Technically, it may be possible to runt he A340-300 type aircraft on a routing like DEL-SFO or DEL-JFK mebbe with a payload hit. The A340-500 could do it without any restriction.

But the question is of commercials. An intermediate stop enables the airline to pick 2 more sectors. For eg. a routing like JFK-LHR-DEL allows the airline JFK-LHR and LHR-DEL as well. This allows them to offer more frequencies. Undoubtedly better.

Also with flights of upto 14 hours duration, an extra set of crew will have to be carried along costing moolah.

Just my rs.2

-Roy
 
Pe@rson
Topic Author
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RE: Non-stop Flights Between India And The USA And Can

Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:43 pm

Just my rs.2."

LMAO!  Wink/being sarcastic You got a thali I could umm have?  Wink/being sarcastic

A non-stop flight would reduce the time it takes to get between India and the USA, although it would incur additional costs. However, I am sure that there would be a year-round demand for a daily non-stop DEL/BOM-JFK service using a 345. So I guess that it is a question of the additional costs vs the demand for and the convenience of a non-stop service.

[Edited 2003-09-19 14:45:28]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
irishpower
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RE: Non-stop Flights Between India And The USA And Can

Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:46 pm

Right before 9/11, UA announced that they were going to start ORD-DEL service with a 744. It was going to fly north and come pretty close to skimming the pole. UA did a practice flight that summer to check winds and such but 9/11 put that on hold and I don't know if it will ever been re-instated.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Non-stop Flights Between India And The USA And Can

Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:33 am

but one of the reasons for the AI 772 LR interest was non stops between India and the US

AI never had any interest in 772LR at this point (it'll be a cold day in Hades before they buy a plane that hasnt yet flown)... nor did they have any interest in nonstops to N.America, due to their plethora of unused 5th freedom rights.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
behramjee
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RE: Non-stop Flights Between India And The USA And Can

Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:58 am

I dread to imagine the state of AIs B 772LR toilets after a 14-16 hr nonstop USA-INDIA or INDIA-USA flight!!!

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