Capital146
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Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sat Sep 20, 2003 3:25 am

Have just noticed on the Ryanair website that the airline have told the authorities at Derry airport, Northern Ireland, to extend the runway or risk losing services from the airport.

Ryanair say that they plan to retire the 732 (which currently flies from Derry to Stansted) in the next 2 years and this popular route will have to come to an end unless the runway is extended as it will be too short for 738 flights.

They go on to say that the runway length has already prevented Ryanair starting services from the airport to Germany, France and Belgium (ie Hahn, Beauvais and Charleroi).

I know that Derry gets a handful of charter flights to the Med with A320's (which I know are better from shorter runways than the 738), but are Ryanair serious that a 738 couldn't even make it to STN? How long is the runway at Derry?
Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
Ikarus
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RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sat Sep 20, 2003 3:26 am

What about the ex-Buzz 733s? Are they going to be retired soon, too?
 
Tom in NO
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RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sat Sep 20, 2003 3:41 am

http://www.cityofderryairport.com tells me that the primary runway at Derry is 6,076' feet. I'm not sure what a loaded 738 would need (of course, it depends on weather, winds, temperature, weight, etc), but I would think it could operate there, perhaps with a weight penalty, though.

For comparison sake, SNA (Orange County-John Wayne) has had a 5,701' runway for many years, and seems to be doing well enough.

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
Ikarus
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RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sat Sep 20, 2003 3:42 am

Much funnier is their most recent press release.... about ads causing complaints in Italy (showing 4 bikini-clad female bottoms)


Peter Sherrard, Chief Bottom Analyst at Ryanair said:

"I don't see what is wrong with this at all. I mean, I don't think I have ever seen examples quite as exceptional. What we are looking at here is without doubt top quality, well-formed, freely available and perfectly rounded air-fares. They look great to me and I think you would have to be mad to ignore them. I certainly don't intend to get left behind and plan to get my hands on a few."



Now where do I apply for that job?

Regards

Ikarus
 
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Crosswind
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RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:06 am

Ryanair's claims on this issue appear to be their usual pointless press-release rubbish which we'll hear nothing more of. With Londonderry's runway length and charachteristics serving Standsted, or indeed just about any European Ryanair destination would not present any significant problems for the B737-800.

air2000 and LTE already serve Palma and Arrecife with the A320 from LDY, the latter flight is in excess of 4 hours long. While the B737-800's wing may require higher takeoff speeds, this doesn't limit it's airfield performance to such an extent that flights of 1-2 hours are not possible from LDY.

With Ryanair you can't help wondering if press releases like this are just used as leverage in negotiations on landing charges etc. Ryanair will drop their stance, which is potentially harmful to Londonderry in return for reduced airport charges....


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On another issue, the new look is excellent - a much needed update. Their old livery managed to make the B737-800 look old-fashioned, and I've been hoping for something like this since they unveiled EI-CKS in this scheme in 1996...

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Only took 'em 7 years!

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
Capital146
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RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:16 am

Tom in NO,

Yep, that's my point. I agree that a 738 would have weight restrictions operating from a runway of just over 6000ft, but the flight to STN is only scheduled as around 75 mins (and in reality about 60 mins) so a full fuel load is not required.

I reckon that even with a full passenger load, the majority of passengers are not going to have too much baggage, as they are travelling to London and not on their summer holidays, unlike the occasional holiday charters they have from Derry with A320's.

So taking this into account, would a 738 realistically still be able to operate from Derry to Stansted???
Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
Capital146
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RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:18 am

Sorry Crosswind, typed up my message just as you had posted yours! Thanks for your advice, good to hear from you again!

Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
Ikarus
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RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:42 am

Ryanair planes do not refuel at every stop. They refuel where it is cheapest, then do a few trips here and there....

Perhaps Ryanair does not wish to be limited and forced to always fly to and from Derry with a near empty fuel tank?

Regards

Ikarus
 
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Crosswind
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RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:45 am

Ikarus,
Fuel in Londonderry is expensive! You tranker fuel into LDY to save money, and uplift as little as possible there. For that reason you'll just leave Londonderry with the required fuel to reach your destination, certainly on the Standsted route.

You'll always be limited by your max landing weight on short-haul aircraft, so tanking fuel for a single STN-LDY-STN roundtrip with a full payload is as much as you'll ever do...

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
Ikarus
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RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:44 pm

So, can a 738 with max landing weight land in Derry? That was more or less my point... if they arrive with the fuel for the next trip (or 2) already on board, can they land (and takeoff again)?

Regards

Ikarus
 
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Crosswind
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RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sat Sep 20, 2003 9:54 pm

Ikarus,
It wouldn't be a problem.

The air2000 A320 flights route BFS-PMI-LDY-PMI-BFS. The aircraft is fueled in Palma to arrive at LDY at MLW to minimise fuel uplift. I'm not aware of any issues with that operation.

Landing performance will almost always be less limiting than takeoff performance for a given runway, since takeoff performance is based on the most limiting of
(1) An engine failiure at V1, and a continued single engine takeoff
(2) A descision to stop at V1
When you can achieve (2) at a given weight/set of conditions, then there's going to be enough runway to complete a landing under the same conditions.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
Big777jet
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RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sat Sep 20, 2003 11:06 pm

My Goodness! Look at the ramp surfrace. Does it look like brick? Old fashioned! Take a look: http://www.cityofderryairport.com/viewgallery.asp?id=7

Big777jet

 
Lufthansa
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RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sat Sep 20, 2003 11:33 pm

Big777jet, that is so cool!
I really love that old fashon style of airport look...I think they're
are a few in places like ukrine still used like that....with terminal buildings
to match
 
Guest

RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sat Sep 20, 2003 11:39 pm

German government plans to demand minimum-ticket prices for Low-cost-carriers. Ok, governments (esp. german with that bad economy) shouldn't give too much rules but it has economical reasons.
 
Ikarus
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RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sat Sep 20, 2003 11:46 pm

StefanDotDe: Economical reasons? I doubt it. Perhaps ecological ones, but frankly, when it comes to low cost flying, I think it's one of the best things that has happened to air travel in Europe in recent memory, and I'd be seriously annoyed if the German government tried to damage that.

Regards

Ikarus
 
Guest

RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sat Sep 20, 2003 11:59 pm

@Ikarus - sure, you are right. I mean ecological reasons.
And it depends, Ikarus. So if there are fun-trips, just for a day to milan cause ticket is only 1 Euro + taxes. That's sh**
And I also don't want to have american situation (as the US had in the 80's) with old planes and bad maintenance cause airlines can't afford it.
 
Ikarus
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RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sun Sep 21, 2003 12:04 am

. So if there are fun-trips, just for a day to milan cause ticket is only 1 Euro + taxes. That's sh**


You are describing one of my hobbies....

Regards

Ikarus
 
Guest

RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sun Sep 21, 2003 12:06 am

lol @ Ikarus. Sorry about that.
But everything has to cost some money - even flying.
 
Ikarus
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RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sun Sep 21, 2003 12:22 am

StefanDotDe:

You can rent cars from £1 a day. You can order a pizza and have it delivered for £1. You can go to the cinema and watch a movie for £0.50. You can take a minibus from London to Birmingham for £1. You can sleep in a London hostel for £5 per night. At least, all of these things will be true if the Easy Group open up all the businesses they've announced for 2004.

The key to it all is the demand curve. Instead of drawing a single price, and satisfying only a certain number of people's demands, the principle is to cover the entire demand curve with lots of prices: from the cheapskate who orders his pizza 3 days in advance and has it delivered in the afternoon, to the guy who orders his pizza 30 minutes in advance on a weekend evening and pays the maximum price. The same is true for flights. That's the reason why low-cost airlines are so successful: They manage to grab almost the entire demand curve, from the guy who wants to fly almost for free to the guy who pays near-business class fares. Take away their flexibility to set prices, and you ruin their business model. If the German government were indeed to specify minimum prices, Ryanair and Easyjet would pull out, German Wings and HLX would become like dba, loss-making crippled airlines, and they might even eventually fade away.

And to be honest, I love the freedom to do a day trip to Venice, see a different country, a different style of living, a totally different world, without having to pay for accomodation, and paying just £20 for the flight (including all taxes) because I booked 3 months in advance. That's what Europe, the EU, is all about: Free movement of people, the broadening of horizons, the abolishment of borders, both national and financial (airline deregulation having now, finally, erased the financial obstacles to travelling)

Regards

Ikarus
 
Guest

RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sun Sep 21, 2003 12:30 am

Ikarus, from view of customers you are totally right. And I also would love to have that cheap fares to the countries I would love to go.
But there is no black and white, there is also a grey. And the dark side is the ecological problem.
Also in my opinion this can't be a german law but a european. And then it's not just a problem from HLX or German Wings.
But how many €1-tickets do the airlines offer per flight? Depends on departure time and day of week. We got 8 tickets from Ryan Air for trip from HHN (not fra  Wink/being sarcastic ) to STN. After our booking there was no more ticket for € 1 - and I am sure our flights will be rebooked from the airline - a Ryan Air's practice.
 
DoorsToManual
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RE: Ryanair - Derry, Extend Your Runway!

Sun Sep 21, 2003 12:54 am

I totally agree - I have been using low-cost airlines for 4 years now, and have seen so much of Europe in that short space of time - I think they are a good thing, and of course it would be a shame if ticket prices had to increase. They have even forced the full-service airlines to lower their prices, which means cheaper flights to other destinations.

I think the govt in the UK is reviewing its policies on air tickets - currently no VAT/sales tax is charged on tickets, and I believe fuel is sold to carriers tax-free.

As for the runway - this is the usual 'bla bla bla' from Ryanair, hardly something new.  Big grin

rgds