airplanetire
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 11:59 pm

Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:38 am

I started thinking of some major cities in the world that are not served by any of the six US majors. Some of the airports that came to mind were:

VIE
WAW
CPH
ARN
CAI
DXB
JNB
CGK
KUL


I know that some of these such as KUL have really had problems in making a profit and some of these other airports used to be served by US majors, but no longer are. For any of these cities and any other ones that you can think of, why do no US majors fly there?

-Airplanetire
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:43 am

4 of the top 12 metropolitan areas in the world are not served by US carriers.

These are Kolkota, India (#5); Delhi, India (#6); Jakarta, Indonesia (#11) and Karachi, Pakistan (#12).
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
airplanetire
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 11:59 pm

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:06 am

What is the reason for this? Is there just not a business market or a market of nationals of those countries going back to visit family? Is it just that there are other routes that an airline is serving instead and lacks the equipment? Is is it low yield?

-Airplanetire
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:11 am

We can also add DUS to the list. DUS had in the past a few US airlines but after September 11, 2001 disappeared the last (UA to IAD), other US airlines at DUS were AA to ORD and CO to EWR.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
airplanetire
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 11:59 pm

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:17 am

The cities that could be added to this list are endless. The African continent, which has some big cities like DKR, CAI, NBO, JNB, CPT, LOS, ACC, and others completely lacks a US carrier. Delta served CAI briefly before September 11, but cut it pretty quickly after that. Eastern Europe really is missing US carriers too. Delta is the only one and it serves just IST, ATH, and SVO. There are a lot of other large cities in Eastern Europe like Warsaw, Budapest, Krakow, and Bucharest, all of which have transatlantic service to the United States, but by their native airlines.

-Airplanetire
 
TLHFLA
Posts: 492
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:13 am

Vienna is one city that I am surprised no US carrier serves. I know Delta has served it off and on over the years, but have any other U.S. carriers served VIE?
Bill in ATL
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:25 am

Delta stopped ATL-VIE around the time Austrian started to serve ATL, and Delta codeshared on the flight. When Austrian left, Delta did not resume direct flights to VIE, instead Air France's flights between CDG and VIE became a codeshare with Delta.
 
okko
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 6:44 pm

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:50 am

I'm not sure if Helsinki is a major city but let's add it to the list. I recall both Delta and Pan Am had services to HEL at some point - maybe they stopped in late 80s or early 90s. AY still have the daily flight to JFK with onward connections to ARN, LED, TLL, VNO and RIX.

okko
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 6:15 am

Add budapest, Prague, and maybe IST (not sure if DL still goes there from Kennedy)
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 6:24 am

USA carriers can make a lot of $$$ if they fly to DEL, DXB and KHI.

Didnt DELTA do well with its 5 weekly MD 11 JFK-CAIRO-DXB-CAI-JFK flights? I read that loads were always 80%+ and they had full rights between CAI and DXB too!

As far as DEL goes, it has the demand to support flights from LAX, ORD and JFK bound for the city (even nonstop).

Karachi is too a good destination for a US carrier to look into for flying 3-4 times a week as of right now all the PAK pax fly EK/QR/GF to LHR and then VS or AA or UAL to USA.

There is also huge demand between LAGOS, DAKAR, ABIDJAN and ACCRA to USA. Only SAA flies DAKAR-JFK nonstop from JNB with B 747s and A 346s.
Lagos (LOS) would be a good destination for the JFK hub guys such as AA or DL to seriously consider flying to nonstop with B 763ERs.

OR fly the B 777s to West Africa and extend the flight to Nairobi 2-3 times a week and JO-Burg 3-4 times a week!

DXB can too easily a nonstop JFK-DXB or EWR-DXB or even ORD-DXB flight 4 times a week B 777-200ERs.




 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:33 am

"We can also add DUS to the list. DUS had in the past a few US airlines but after September 11, 2001 disappeared the last (UA to IAD), other US airlines at DUS were AA to ORD and CO to EWR.
"

UA flew 763s to DUS from ORD..
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13200
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 1:04 pm

Pan Am pretty much flew to all the cities mentioned up untill 1991, in '91 Pan Am flew all over Eastern Europe, Helsinki, Nairobi, Karachi, Riyadh, Dehli, Bombay/Mumbai, St.Petersburg, Warsaw, Belgrade, Dubrovnik, Bucharest and so on and so on.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 1:41 pm

Isn't KUL served by Northwest, but out of NRT on an A320?
 
Marco
Posts: 4005
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 3:41 pm

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 1:48 pm

Didnt DELTA do well with its 5 weekly MD 11 JFK-CAIRO-DXB-CAI-JFK flights? I read that loads were always 80%+ and they had full rights between CAI and DXB too!

I believe they were three weekly flights, and from what I heard in Dubai at the time, the flights weren't as successful as you think (especially the CAI-JFK part).

USA carriers can make a lot of $$$ if they fly to DEL, DXB and KHI

I don't think KHI would be a very profitable destination, KHI doesn't even have the major European airlines flying there...
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:46 pm

Looking at some European countries, it seems strange to me that large French cities (MRS, LYS, BOD) are not served whereas similiarly sized secondary cities in Germany (STR, DUS, HAM, MUC) and the UK (BHX,MAN,GLA) have direct transatlantic service - only NCE has service to JFK. It might be because the French transport system is entirely Paris-centric - possibly everyone assumes you WANT to fly via CDG.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:54 pm

Marco...KHI would be a profitable destination if it was flown to especially via LHR or LGW nonstop by an American carrier. American Airlines and Continental Airlines have HUGE SALES from KHI with pax flying either EK or GF to LONDON and then either one of them to USA.

Only SWISS out of the Western folks flies to KHI 4 times a week with A 343s and A 332s (2 times each) and does an avg 75% load per flight out of KHI to ZRH via DXB.

DELTA increased its DXB flights from 3 to 5 weekly with MD 11s!!!
 
ssides
Posts: 3248
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2001 12:57 am

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:14 pm

Does DL no longer serve VIE from ATL? I flew that route in '99, service was just OK; it was a Delta flight but I think it also had an Austrian Airlines codeshare.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
mozart
Posts: 2028
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:21 am

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:41 pm

Here's a MAJOR miss: Berlin!!! A big metropolis (around 4 million inhabitants), and the capital of Europe's biggest economy.... But I think this has to do more with Berlin's connections being a joke and with the city being a pathetic business place than with the US carriers. DL used to go, but no longer...

Instead, US airlines fly to Stuttgart... this is as if all the foreign airlines shunned London and all went to Newcastle instead. Germany's structure is really funny
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8004
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:48 pm

Mozart,

I think people are waiting for the opening of Berlin's new international airport before committing flights there.  Smile

Anyway, the reason why Frankfurt-am-Main, Munich, Stuttgart and Dusseldorf get a lot of transatlantic traffic is that these cities offer a huge amount of premium passenger traffic in and out of these cities. Frankfurt and Munich are major business centers in Germany, and Stuttgart is home to Germany's aerospace and automotive industries (e.g., DaimlerChrysler headquarters).
 
Marco
Posts: 4005
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 3:41 pm

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:21 pm

DELTA increased its DXB flights from 3 to 5 weekly with MD 11s!!!

No it didn't...it was always 3 weekly flights.

And as for KHI, I'm, not talking about loads. I'm sure there are enough people flying KHI to say NYC for a flight everyday or 5 times a week, but the yields would be pretty weak. KHI, doesn't have the European majors, therefore that says alot about its profitability.
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
EverettWA
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 1999 12:28 pm

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:49 pm

Delta still flies to IST, daily in the summer and 5X weekly otherwise. This is in addition to the daily THY flight to JFK (sometimes even double daily, not sure when) and 3X weekly to ORD (4 in the summer). Non-stop flights between Turkey and the US have in the past included ATL-IST on DL and MIA-IST on TK...
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13200
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Major Cities With No Service By US Majors

Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:03 am

American, Delta, Pan Am and TWA have all flown to Berlin, the loads are good is just not a big business route.

However..

CO launching flights from EWR with either a 757 or 767-200 and LH launching flights with Privatair between Berlin and either EWR or IAD are quite possible in the near future.

As for Stuttgart, the business communities of Stuttgart have strong connections to manufactoring areas of the Southeast US (South Carolina etc) thus DL caters to this community with flights from ATL. They tried Stuttgart-JFK flights but they did not last more than a couple years, Pan Am flew to Stuttgart via Zurich and TWA and AA also briefly flew to Stuttgart.

Both AA and more recently DL have flown JFK-Lyon, DL had the advantage of the AF code share but it still did not work (for them).

UTA used to fly to EWR from Marseilles, Bordeaux (sp?.) and another French city.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757