BeltwayBandit
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:25 am

Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 7:02 am

NEW YORK, Sept 22 (Reuters) - Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said on Monday that Italy and France wanted to see a merger of Alitalia (Milan:AZPIa.MI - News), Air France (Paris:AIRF.PA - News) and KLM(Amsterdam:KLM.AS - News), which would create Europe's biggest airline.

"There is a desire on our part and that of France to end up with a merger of Alitalia, Air France and KLM where national identities are respected," Berlusconi told reporters in New York where he was attending an anti-terrorism conference.
Berlusconi and French President Jacques Chirac left the New York conference together for about 10 minutes on Monday.
"Our governments are working in this direction," said Berlusconi, whose government owns a 62 percent stake in Alitalia while Chirac's holds a 54 percent share of Air France.
Berlusconi said that a three-way commercial tie-up would "create a group that could take on the big international companies, above all the American ones."
Alliances between major airlines are seen as crucial as the industry struggles with an economic slowdown and mounting competition from nimble no-frills carriers such as Ryanair.
Loss-making Alitalia's troubles would mount if it is left out of a consolidating European sector. The airline is already set to axe 3,000 jobs as part of a do-or-die restructuring plan, a source close to Alitalia said last week.
Last week a source close to Alitalia said the creation of a listed holding company, which would sit above the three airlines, was being studied as a means of tying together the partly state-owned carriers but allowing them to keep their national brands.
The source also said that Air France and KLM were set to strike an alliance deal within two weeks.
And in a sign that the Italian flag carrier's efforts to be included may have paid off, the source added that Air France and Alitalia would sign an accord to launch a single intercontinental schedule over the same period.
Analysts expect Air France to ultimately swallow up its two smaller rivals if the partnership goes ahead. But Berlusconi on Monday touted a marriage of equals.
"At the request of the companies, they must have the same weight in the deal. That is the essential thing for an agreement, and each company is looking for that," he told reporters.
Air France and Alitalia already have commercial ties and a small cross shareholding, and shares in all three airlines surged last week on expectations of an imminent merger between at least two of them.
KLM is set to brief unions on Wednesday on the progress of its partnership talks with Air France after saying last week that discusssions were at an advanced stage but several key issues still stood in the way of a deal.

 
BeltwayBandit
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:25 am

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 7:05 am

How can three, large, government-controlled, teetering airlines compete with the smaller, nimble startups? Become one, huge teetering airline!
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 7:11 am

I agree. Despite all the merger mania that has been discussed in Europe, to date no country has yet had its "national" airline merged with another.

Each EU country still has (understandable) national pride; I still can't see the Dutch or Italian people accepting that their national carrier is now Air France, or vice versa.

Rightly, or wrongly, I think each EU nation will retain its national carrier due to national pride.

Alliances and small equity stakes are all that I see on the horizon ever for EU national carriers.


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
OOPJV
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 1:37 am

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 7:41 am

Maybe not a recent merger, but SAS is an example of a merger and close cooperation of three EU-countries... I agree, these countries may have more in common historically than France, Italy or The Netherlands, but it can be an example of what may come...
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 7:43 am

Maybe not a recent merger, but SAS is an example of a merger and close cooperation of three EU-countries

I agree but they started SAS from scatch effectively so there was no loss of national identity. If each SAS country had their own separate airline now, I bet a merger would stir up national ire!


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
OOPJV
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 1:37 am

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 7:52 am

I don't have the time to look it up now, but I thought that a the moment SAS was formed, each country had its own national airline, and that these airlines were merged... I thought it happened in the 60's...
 
bobrayner
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:46 am

This is not without precedents.

However, I think that a merger of klm / alitalia / air france would just make them more inflexible. The latter two really need to shape up.

Both would have a hard time breaking the news of "efficiencies" to their staff, but (real or perceived) job losses to foreigners would be completely unpalatable to French / Italian union leaders.  Smile

Just personal opinion, &c &c.
Cunning linguist
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:53 am

Okay, so the heads of state of two European countries, both of whom would be in jail were it not for their position in the government, want to merge their national carriers, along with another national carrier.

It's like a Mafia marriage!

Okay, that's a somewhat sarcastic statement...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:48 am

In reality, Berlusconi wants to get some cash for the gov'ts holding of AZ but knows he can't just outright sell AZ to the French. The Dutch gov't is farther down the road of seeing AZ as a company and not the single source of Dutch national pride and thus the Dutch people can accept a KL/AF merger far better than the Italian people can. Ultimately, the Italian gov't wants out of the airline business but knows that for the present he has to speak reverently about AZ.
 
Birdwatching
Posts: 3573
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:48 am

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:31 am

If each SAS country had their own separate airline now, I bet a merger would stir up national ire!

They do:
Braathen's SAFE(Norway)
Finair (Finland)
Maersk (Denmark)
(Several others in Sweden)
All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
 
CRJ'sRule
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 8:12 am

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:42 am

Silvio Berlusconi is involved in this thing? Let's see how long it is before he makes another insensitive comment to the French or Dutch or pisses off the EU, thus destroying the merger. Don't believe me. Just the German guy he called a Nazi a few months ago. This merger idea will be gone before you can say wooden shoes, fromage or pizza.
 
VCE
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 6:07 pm

Elwood64151 Okay, so the heads of state of two European countries, both of whom would be in jail were it not for their position in the government, want to merge their national carriers, along with another national carrier.

Yr comment doesn't have any sense. It's not true and absolutely it doesn't have any link to the topic.

If You really want to know, is this Government in Italy that wants to privatize Alitalia, not the previous, and the time for this is set. I agree with our Premier that the alliance with AF and KL should be closer. It's the only point in common we have in this moment with our French cousins, but it's good.
 
keesje
Posts: 8611
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 6:28 pm

perhaps AZ / Berlusconi are afraid AF doesn't need AZ anymore when they partner with KLM (2 times as big as AZ & much, much healthier)..

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
VCE
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 6:43 pm

perhaps AZ / Berlusconi are afraid AF doesn't need AZ anymore when they partner with KLM (2 times as big as AZ & much, much healthier)..

I don't think this is the problem. The Government in Italy (and Berlusconi as the first) wants to privatize AZ as soon.

Regarding AZ, as i already said, it has a competition in Italy that KL doesn't have in the Netherlands, but AZ must increase and to take advantage of its domestic market firstly in a country of 60.000.000 of inhabitants, while the Netherlands have just 10.000.000 and AZ must return in a position of leadership in the Middle Eastern and Asian market. The programmes goes in this direction.
 
kl911
Posts: 3979
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 7:17 pm

''AZ must increase and to take advantage of its domestic market firstly in a country of 60.000.000 of inhabitants, while the Netherlands have just 10.000.000 and AZ must return in a position of leadership in the Middle Eastern and Asian market. The programmes goes in this direction.''

VCE,

Sorry, but the Netherlands have close to 18 million inhabitants.........

 
keesje
Posts: 8611
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 7:34 pm

I think the number of inhabitant plays a role in politics. AF and AZ are still politicaly influenced. They should privatize ASAP.

In negotiations it is the size / strenght of the airline that matters.

Who cares that KLM mainly serves US, UK, German & Scandinavian passengers & cargo as long as they make money ?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Menno Marrenga





"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
kl911
Posts: 3979
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 7:45 pm


What should worry KL is the number of strikes that hit AF per year....
Unions in France are really communist.... Don't even talk about efficiency and jobcuts...... Unions will declare war immediately....
 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:28 pm

KI911
I agree with you that the unions in France are too extremists...
to be fair the deal should include a condition that KL shouldn't suffer from AF personnel yearly-one week-strike
but is that possible if the companies merge?

geachte keesje

"Who cares that KLM mainly serves US, UK, German & Scandinavian passengers & cargo as long as they make money ? "

I m not denying KL has been a profitable airline but are you sure KL is still making money? I know AF is, but can't find any statements in this sense as far as KL is concerned....


AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TN
 
keesje
Posts: 8611
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:38 pm

Regarding AZ, as i already said, it has a competition in Italy that KL doesn't have in the Netherlands

Jooking right ?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Garry Lewis



Every major European/Asian/US carrier serves Amsterdam and it is a low Cost Easyjet hub
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
keesje
Posts: 8611
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:15 pm

"I m not denying KL has been a profitable airline but are you sure KL is still making money? I know AF is, but can't find any statements in this sense as far as KL is concerned...."

KLm is just starting to make money again after the 9-11, Iraq, Sars dip.

AF received more then E 5 Billion (e.g. sunsidizing environmental friendly aircraft) state support during the last five yrs.

The problem is the french state that owns AF also control AF airspace (keeps low cost carriers out), allow AF to have a virtual monopoly in France and blocks any EC measurements against this practises.

That why they are profitable now.


"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
kl911
Posts: 3979
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:26 pm

Keesje,

Aren't we better of for the moment to keep KL the way it is and wait till AF is fully privatised? I guess 5 years after AF is privatised it will be either smaller then KL or bankrupt. Let's merge then and see the beautiful blue KL birds dominate French skies. ( and learn them something about efficiency )

I've got nothing against AF, but I'm strongly opposed to Government aid and those Unions who seem to have all the power....
 
keesje
Posts: 8611
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:39 pm

"AF received more then E 5 Billion (e.g. sunsidizing environmental friendly aircraft) state support during the last five yrs"

Excuse me, it is 15 yrs .. not 5.

Just an article I googled up :

"French connection

When I flew from London to Strasbourg four years ago to visit the European Parliament, I was astonished to discover that Air France, which enjoyed a monopoly on the route, charged £550 return. MEPs and others were naturally delighted with Ryanair's rival service, charging as little as £40 - until last week, when Air France won a French court ruling that it was in breach of EU competition rules.

This distaste for unfair competition is a new one. A few years back, the European Court of Justice ruled that a French government subsidy of £2.4 billion for Air France was illegal. After a quiet word from Paris, however, the European Commission reframed the rules and the subsidy suddenly became legal after all."
http://www.warmwell.com/2aug31booker.html
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
VCE
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:12 pm

@Kl911
Sorry, but the Netherlands have close to 18 million inhabitants.........

It doesn't change so much.
 
VCE
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:14 pm

@Kl911
What should worry KL is the number of strikes that hit AF per year....
Unions in France are really communist.... Don't even talk about efficiency and jobcuts...... Unions will declare war immediately.


I totally agree with You. That's one of the reason i really hope in a strong alliance between AF/AZ/KL.

KL is a really good airline.
 
VCE
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:25 pm

@Keesje

Are you joking? Do you want to compare the domestic market of the Netherlands or Italy?
In the Netherlands the only hub is AMS, and the 90% of the traffic is there. In Italy there are FCO and MXP and some other medium hubs like VCE, TRN, LIN, NAP.

Italy has made the fortune for many airlines (included KL) because in the last 15 years the management of AZ wasn't able to face with new strategies the big increase of the requests.
Thx to this management (fortunately now over), AZ lost almost half of the domestic market because of the big number of competitors, and the same happened on the international routes.

I remind You that AZ has to face not only the competition from the other foreign airlines, but even the competition from many Italian airlines on the domestic and the International routes:

Volare Airlines
Volareweb.com
Meridiana
Azzurra Air
Air One
Alpi Eagles
Wind Jet
Air Dolomiti
Lauda Air Italy
Air Europe
Blue Panorama

and others.
 
tripple7
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 8:53 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:35 pm

@VCE

The point is....that these 18 million people all live within 2 hours driving of AMS. This number does not even include the Ruhr Area in Germany, also a huge market from which KLM gets a lot of business. KLM might have a smaller home market, but they have a home market with a higher GDP/capita...that's what counts.

It's nice to hear that Italy has about 60 million inhabitants, but what are you trying to say with that. It still has a lot of very poor areas, especially the south. Those people will never spend money on flying...when they are already happy when they can afford a train ticket.

Regarding the bullshit you say about competition. I think you are stuck with your head in the sand. Competition is really tough @ AMS just like it is anywhere in the "liberated" air transport world. Easyjet has a hub at AMS and many low cost carriers are expanding out of AMS.
 
keesje
Posts: 8611
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:40 pm

VCE, how much competition do you think KLM has if it doesn't even have a sizeable home market ?

Stealing away passengers from other airlines homemarkets is a way of living for them ...



I'm not denying AZ has no competition. Just changing the mngt won't solve all problems. Even now Berlusconi has to come to the rescue. Some of the carriers you metioned are not real competitors. More partners.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
VCE
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:43 pm

@Tripple7

Surely you have never been to Italy. After that i read yr comments i can easily understand it as everybody who knows it. It's true, i come from Venice, and my region is with Lombardy and Bavaria the economic 'engine' of our continent, but Italy is the 5th world largest economy. From the north to the south.
In the south there are no people who live as you belive. The salaries in Italy are the same from the north to the south and the southern Italians are big travellers. Move from AMS before speaking.
 
tripple7
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 8:53 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:59 pm

@ VCE

I am not bashing Italians here. So don't get emotional. I am just realistic.

I have been in Italy about 10 times in my life. Last April I was in Florence, but recently I have been in the south too. In the south there is still a lot of poverty, compared to the the Po area to clarify with what I mean.

And by the way I don't live in AMS not even close to it. I lived there for a year about 8 years ago but I don't like the city so I moved far away from Amsterdam.
 
VCE
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:01 pm

Nice picture Keesje Smile

http://www.aeronautica.difesa.it/vc.asp?i=/UCSMA/Images/fn5005-8.jpg


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Damiano GUALDONI




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Italian spotter



 Smile
 
VCE
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:04 pm

@Tripple7

I'm realistic too. Being from the north of Italy i should agree with you Smile
But i use to go on holidays in the south every year and i know very well how they are. They are real Mediterranean and their character is surely different than here, but it doesn't mean they live in a different way than me and you.
 
VCE
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:20 pm

Competition is really tough @ AMS just like it is anywhere in the "liberated" air transport world. Easyjet has a hub at AMS and many low cost carriers are expanding out of AMS.

Once it was "Roma caput mundi" now it is "Amsterdam caput mundi"  Yeah sure
 
dispatch
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:14 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:37 am

Reply 2 says:
Despite all the merger mania that has been discussed in Europe, to date no country has yet had its "national" airline merged with another
This will also not happen if AF - AZ - KL get into an alliance. They will NOT merge, but form an alliance and KEEP their identities.....

Reply 3 says:
Maybe not a recent merger, but SAS is an example of a merger and close cooperation of three EU-countries
NORWAY is NOT an EU-member, check out things before posting please....

Reply 4 says:
I agree but they started SAS from sc(r)atch effectively so there was no loss of national identity
FROM SAS SITE:
1918
Danish parent company (DDL) founded.
1924
Swedish parent company (ABA) founded.
1927
Norwegian parent company (DNL) founded.
Check out things before posting please....

And to a few more replies:
KL and AZ had an alliance just a few years ago. KLM blew the whole thing, because the Italian govt refused to speed up privatising Alitalia. Or maybe Alitalia did not want to be privatized..... KLM also wants the French government to reduce it's stake in AF.
If both the Italian and French govs don't guarantee this black on white, forget the whole thing. KLM will NEVER be ruled by a foreign govt.

Peter
 
VCE
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:45 am

I agree with you Dispatch. Nobody of us wants to have a foreign Gov. to control the national airline. But this Government in Italy had on its electoral programme an Alitalia privatized. But let me to say that to sell Alitalia or Air France is not like to sell an ice cream. By the way Berlusconi and Chirac were clear enough i think.
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:51 am

Okay, so the heads of state of two European countries, both of whom would be in jail were it not for their position in the government, want to merge their national carriers, along with another national carrier.

Actually, that statement is not unfounded. Berlusconi is (or was) on trial for bribing judges in a civil matter involving the purchase by a private organization of a state-owned food conglomerate. That's according to an article in The Economist on August 2.

The reason why Jacques Chirac ran for his position was to escape Embesslement charges when we was mayor (?) of Paris. When his current term is up, the statute of limitations will have expired. I don't know where I read this, but I'll find out and post it, if you like.

And regarding this string, it's relevant because of the particular nature of Mr. Berlusconi's alleged crime.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
VCE
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:58 am

Berlusconi is (or was) on trial for bribing judges in a civil matter involving the purchase by a private organization of a state-owned food conglomerate.

He was. He was acquitted in all. Anyway, this is not the point of the discussion. I'm sorry.
 
VCE
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Wed Sep 24, 2003 1:01 am

And regarding this string, it's relevant because of the particular nature of Mr. Berlusconi's alleged crime.

It's absolutely out of the topic, it's an yr own opinion and totally false and even offensive regarding a foreign Premier and especially regarding the Italian people.
 
dispatch
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:14 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Wed Sep 24, 2003 1:11 am

I, in turn, agree with VCE:
the fact that Berlusconi and Chirac were "suspected" of "anything" has NOTHING to do with this topic, the merger of or alliance between the Dutch, French and Italian national airlines.

Let's stick to aviation issues. If anybody wants to post an article on politics or white-collar crime, I'm sure there are lots of other discussion forums......

Peter
 
VCE
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Wed Sep 24, 2003 1:19 am

I fully agree with You Peter. Let's hope in this alliance between AF/AZ/KL now.
 
User avatar
Heavierthanair
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 11:20 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM.

Wed Sep 24, 2003 2:40 am

G'day

One of the greatest problems with Alitalia is all those politicians that want to have their say in all and everything with rarely anything actually being done as a result.

Now the worlds champion in grease jar jumping tunes in. Great. I hope he is - as is common practice in Italy - not taken seriously and simply being ignored.

Cheers

Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
VCE
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Wed Sep 24, 2003 2:51 am

..ignored like yr message..Heavierthanair..
 
Rafabozzolla
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 1:27 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Wed Sep 24, 2003 4:47 am

The problem with AZ is mismanagement. It could be competing, if not with LH, AF and BA, with IB, and KL for the fourth position in the European market.

Besides the spread of operations is also a problem. The split of flights between FCO, MXP and LIN diminishes connexion possibilities throughout the network. I know I am just someone with an opinion, but isn't that soooo obvious?
 
LJ
Posts: 4103
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Wed Sep 24, 2003 5:02 am

One of the greatest problems with Alitalia is all those politicians that want to have their say in all and everything with rarely anything actually being done as a result.

You have put it with almost the exact words Leo van Wijk justified getting rid of Alitalia. Even when he had to pay AZ EUR 150mio he still argued KLM was better off without Alitalia. I wonder what he'll say about AZ when KLM enters Skyteam.........

 
VCE
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

RE: Berlusconi - "...merger Of Alitalia, AF & KLM..."

Wed Sep 24, 2003 6:19 am

The problem with AZ is mismanagement. It could be competing, if not with LH, AF and BA, with IB, and KL for the fourth position in the European market.

Besides the spread of operations is also a problem. The split of flights between FCO, MXP and LIN diminishes connexion possibilities throughout the network. I know I am just someone with an opinion, but isn't that soooo obvious?


I totally agree with You.

The problem is that for 'political' reasons the previous Governments sponsorized FCO and the project of MXP was just on paper. Now the new President of Alitalia has well on mind what AZ has to do. He's a good manager and not the typical manager of public holdings that doesn't have any knowledge of the market. Fortunately this time it's even a Government that has clear on mind the expansion of AZ.

Who is online