ghost77
Posts: 4464
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

AeroCalifornia In Financial Problems....!

Thu Sep 25, 2003 8:51 am

A month ago I was told that JR was having financial problems, yesterday a source working in ASA (Aeropuertos y Servicios Auxiliares) the company in charge of the taxes and fuel in all Mexican airports., there are some rumours going on that there's a big possibiliy in closing AeroCalifornia.

AeroCalifornia has a big debt with ASA....(I not really sure of the exact figure, but I think it's of 7 million usd) and also they owe more money to the airports. (GACN (Grupo AeroPortuario Centro-Norte), GACM (G. A. Ciudad de México) and GAP (G. A. del Pacífico).

Does anybody knows exactly JR debt? (Rojo?) Also, does anybody knows something else about this??

What's your opinion......??

IMHO, I would be very sorry for all JR's employees, but I also think that this would be for good in our aviation. JR has an average fleet of 35 years!!! JR have never worried about bringing newer aircrafts to their fleet.... (I'm not saying the have to get the 717 or be the launch customer of the new 717-300, but at least why not bringing some MD80s... or paying their debt) If they go belly up, I repet, this would be for good! This would allow Aviacsa or Azteca to enter in all the Pacific, fly to LAX and with newer aircrafts and probably serving a lot more better. Also all Mexican airlines would have the possibily to expand their fleet, just like they did when Taesa went ouf the bussiness.

Some stats:
JR got 11 Dc9-15 and 11 Dc9-32s. And around 60 flights a day in cities in Mexico and Intl to LAX and TUS only....

Ricardo M.  Smile


Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
rojo
Posts: 2266
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 6:08 am

RE: AeroCalifornia In Financial Problems....!

Thu Sep 25, 2003 9:54 am

Ricardo:

AeroCalifornia has been in financial trouble since I can remember. Every time you see an add in the newspaper with the big sale (50% off on all JR flights) you can figure out that they need to do a big payment and those sales are the only way to get the money on time. The problem is that their yields are going down and eventually they will run out of money. I really like JR, since they keep AM prices down, specially on the MEX-MAM route, but they need to improve a lot... we all know that Mr Raul Arechiga, CEO of JR, is the worst financial planner in the airline industry and he needs to figure this out before his airlines goes bankrupt.

AeroCalifornia's debt should be around $900 million MXP (Mexican Pesos) or $90 million USD. The gross amount of the debt should be with the airports and ASA - JetA (around $800 million MXP / $80.0 million USD) and the rest are small debts including leasings.

Rojo
 
ScottB
Posts: 5505
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: AeroCalifornia In Financial Problems....!

Thu Sep 25, 2003 10:11 am

Well, maybe if AeroCalifornia goes out of business, NWA can buy their planes!
 
fly727
Posts: 1753
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:27 am

RE: AeroCalifornia In Financial Problems....!

Fri Sep 26, 2003 2:01 am

I respect your opinion, but I really don't see how it could be for good. From my very personal standpoint I see no good at all having more pilots, mechs, and F/A in the street. We have had enough with Mexicana downsize and Internacionales closure (and this nightmare is not over yet, Allegro will downsize too and furlough some 40 pilots and 50 F/A)

I really don't know a lot about JR, nevertheless I doubt it is run by completely aviation ignorants who could not foresee the need of newer equipment. Maybe they were busy trying to pay more important (or immediate) debts as Rojo pointed out. Although.... you never know; some airlines are/were run by loaded (millionaire) farmers old-school type.

But again., that was IMHO. Un abrazo brother !

RM  Smile

PS. Como estuvo la reunión? No pude ir, ando en Mérida en "amaestramiento"
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
ElPelon
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:59 am

RE: AeroCalifornia In Financial Problems....!

Fri Sep 26, 2003 2:35 am

I think that if JR can´t pay their operative costs, there´s no way that they will buy some newer equipment. I agree that their fleet is really old, so if they won´t improve, i think is better that they close.. I now is bad, that to have more people in the street, but safety is first!! And also rememeber that we live in a world where only the stronger survive...
ElPelon
 
LeoDF
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 1999 11:44 am

RE: AeroCalifornia In Financial Problems....!

Fri Sep 26, 2003 4:35 am

HAHAHAHA! good one Rojo!! True true! How unfortunate, really sad!!!

So we'll be ending with two airlines again!! Aeromexico and Mexicana perhaps?
Lloyd Aereo Boliviano
 
a340pilot
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:22 am

RE: AeroCalifornia In Financial Problems....!

Fri Sep 26, 2003 5:30 am

What?????? An airline company that's in a financial crisis? Couldn't be! All airlines are in the black, with absolutely no debts, yea right  Big grin But all kidding aside I suppose its time to add aero California to the list! That's sad
Go! Canucks Go!
 
Marcus
Posts: 1666
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 5:08 am

RE: AeroCalifornia In Financial Problems....!

Fri Sep 26, 2003 5:42 am

Do you guys (paisanos) know anything about this article?

http://www.frontera.info/edicionenlinea/nota.asp?NumNota=30985
Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
 
copaair737
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:00 am

RE: AeroCalifornia In Financial Problems....!

Fri Sep 26, 2003 5:46 am

doesnt JR fly ratty old DC-9-10s? I heard that they were a potential 717 customer, can anyone add to this?
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
ghost77
Posts: 4464
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: AeroCalifornia In Financial Problems....!

Sat Sep 27, 2003 3:40 am

Fly727,

Yeap, it would be bad in the short term and worst having more more pilots, f/a and mechs..... but just imagine JR leaving all the Pacific... in the long term another airline (thinking on Aviacsa and Azteca) could take over all JR routes and control of the Pacific.

If JR dissapears from the map.... the beneffits could be:

1. AM, MX, 6A or ZE expanding the fleet.
2. 6A and ZE would give more trouble and more REAL COMPETITION to AeroMexico and Mexicana in all the Pacific....
3. A Modern fleet and a better service with 6A and ZE.
4. More real competetion to Alaska Airlines and maybe this would also stop AS future expanding programas to PVR, SJD, MZT, etc etc.... lets face it.... JR it's no competition to the american carriers flying to the Pacific.
5. More destinations from the Mexican airlines to the US and more.....

But, for now, let's wait and see what happens to LL and JR!!

Ricardo M.  Smile

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: AeroCalifornia In Financial Problems....!

Sat Sep 27, 2003 4:27 am

on a different note, is AVIACASA going to be purchasing 737 NG's?
 
fly727
Posts: 1753
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:27 am

RE: AeroCalifornia In Financial Problems....!

Sat Sep 27, 2003 8:37 am

Thanks for your time replying Ghost77.

You have 5 valid points there and I recognize it could happen, although.... Remember A.Internacionales? Has it brought more airplanes to AM, MX and QA fleet (current operators out of CVM airport) ? Nope. Do they provide the public with the same frequencies that Internacionales was doing before? There's another no. This happened with an airline with a 5 or 6 (dunno exactly) airplanes. What would happen, in the case of JR, going belly up with a medium (I mean decent) structure, fleet and route system?

An easy example: I just came back from Merida where JR flyes out of Mexico City. If they go out of business, do you think AM, MX and QA will increase their frequencies to fill up the traffic left by JR? They might or might not. Scary to know some markets will be entirely dominated by Cintra's carriers.

Great reply of yours though (welcome to my RUL).

RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
ghost77
Posts: 4464
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: AeroCalifornia In Financial Problems....!

Sat Sep 27, 2003 9:14 am

Fly727,

That's a good point about what happened in CVJ airport and A. Internationales departure from the Mexican skies. And also as you mentioned, taking into consideration that LNT had a fleet of only 6 aircrafts.

But, I think CVJ was less attractive to 6A or ZE in the moment N2 left. For instance, AM, MX, QA were more prepared or had the power to take a fast decision on flying into CVJ than 6A or ZE.

And yes, AM (they retire 2 Dc9s (XA-AMA, AMB) but they brought 3 more MD87s and expecting a fourth...) and MX (they added 2 more A320 and they are expecting 3 new A319s more for a total of 15). About, QA's fleet, after N2 they received it's 12th Dc9.

Also after N2 departure, JR request approval to SCT for the MX), Mexico">MEX-REX route... they were authorized to fly into REX and the sole airline flying into REX right now it's AM, JR haven't even stared because it's lack of equipment. Also AM was flying a Dc9 in this route, right after N2 left REX they upgrade equipment into MD87/MD80.

Also I think it would be a different story with an airline with 22 aircrafts! Also they have more exotic destinations and important routes.... just to mention a a few.. MZT, PVR, SJD, TIJ, LAX..... and for sure 6A or ZE would be more interested in those routes than flying into CVJ.

Rembemer what it was Aviacsa before Taesa's departure??? I guess nothing... 8 727s and 3 Dc9s a fleet of 11 aircrafts. Now they got 25 in less than 2 years, expecting 3 more in this year and according to a source next year they plan to get to 40 aircrafts!!!

Probably AM, MX and QA won't upgrade or worry about the MX), Mexico">MEX-MID in case JR goes... but 6A will care and add more capacity.. remember they also fly into MID or.. ZE will open the route.

Ricardo M.  Smile

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!

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