Ezra
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CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 7:04 am

Just a thought, but would CO stand to gain anything from opening transcons from JFK to LAX/SFO? Those routes are almost purely O/D, there are a ton of CO FF's in the area, and JFK and EWR are entirely different animals so I wouldn't think CO would be poaching from its EWR flights to run these services from JFK. Perhaps on BF equipped 752s?
 
globaldude
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 7:13 am

EWR is an O/D market as well in that market. CAL will never try that with EWR being its NYC hub. CAL basically runs only hub and spoke (with a few exceptions).
 
LambertMan
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 7:14 am

Well, with their most profitable hub across the way in Newark, I don't think they'd care to cannibalize the most profitable hub's most profitable flights. Laugh out loud Look for them to continue to concentrate on EWR for the NYC area, as they have nothing to gain from JFK. Plus with the new entrant HP on that route it makes it even a little less desirable. Big thumbs up
 
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jetjack74
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 7:16 am

EWR is the busiest airport in NYC area with better options for passengers. It's a nicer airport than the other ones
Made from jets!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 7:18 am

EWR is the busiest airport in NYC area with better options for passengers.

Not anymore it isnt... JFK is back in the #1 spot
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 7:20 am

CO transcon from JFK? If/when an ERJ variant with non-stop transcon range becomes available...  Big grin
 
Ezra
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 9:44 am

Originally posted by LambertMan:
Well, with their most profitable hub across the way in Newark, I don't think they'd care to cannibalize the most profitable hub's most profitable flights.

My point was that there is enough O/D traffic in the market, and that JFK and EWR are different enough in their cachement areas, that such services could make sense. (Not to mention the enormous numbers of CO frequent flyers in the greater NYC area). For instance, AA and UA run transcons from both EWR and JFK.
 
flyboyaz
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 9:59 am

No JFK but CO is starting EWR-TUS nonstop in December..will be a test for 1 month and hopefully they will keep it. We had it a couple of years ago but was on Saturday only....not very heavy loads..this one will be 7 days a week.
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luv2fly
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 10:02 am

Ezra

If pax are already coming to EWR to fly you then why enter into a fare war by taking on AA and UA at JFK? Also just because AA and UA fly from JFK does not mean CO needs to as well. You also have JetBlue flying from JFK, so the market is pretty full as it is, let CO stay in EWR and operate from there.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
CALMSP
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 10:05 am

where did you hear EWR-TUS flyboyaz?
 
flyboyaz
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 10:07 am

From our CO manager...they haven't released it yet, it will be available in SHARES tomorrow I guess...they were asking her what times would be best.

[Edited 2003-09-27 03:10:44]
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CALMSP
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 10:20 am

do you work for us in TUS? I do remember us having saturday only service, just like ABQ did as well. Is this going to be seasonal service only? I'll have to check SHARES tomorrow.
 
flyboyaz
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 10:27 am

Yeah i work in TUS....its not supposed to be seasonal after the test period. She said it would show up tomorrow in SHARES...I will check too! TUS just hit 1 million people so she thinks that's why were are expanding. Last year we had 2 IAH flights a day...now we will have 5 plus 1 EWR. We've gotten alot of the ERJs but they go out full almost all the time...we also have gotten the 738 and 739 on a regular basis and even they went out full.

We are also HP in TUS and we have Freedom/Mesa flights now...they just set up a mx base in TUS and we hear they are going to put quite a few point to points to California and there abouts. We will have more RONS and they have to go somewhere!

Needless to say, TUS is going to get a lot busier!
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worldtraveler
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 10:28 am

It is possible that CO will eventually codeshare on DL's transcons from JFK and DL on CO from EWR eventually although CO obviously has a much bigger presence at EWR.
 
CALMSP
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 10:29 am

so do we have any employees in TUS, you said "we are also HP in TUS" do you work for CO or HP doing contract work for us?
 
luv2fly
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 10:35 am

WorldTraveler

I think with the code share they add flights all the time and have not fully added all the flights yet. I thought I read that the only flights that they could not code share one were the flights that operated from one airline hub to another airline hub? I.E. being a DL flight from EWR to CVG, CO could not code share on that flight per say, tho a DL flight from EWR to CVG and then to MEM would be OK, I could be wrong or explaining it wrong.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
flyboyaz
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 10:38 am

We are all HP and we have some of the best stats systemwide I might add! We work really hard for CO.

We just have 1 CO employee...she's been in TUS since 1978! She's really great, knows everything.

It's a lot of fun and a nice change for us sometimes...though there have been more delays with the CO mainline jets....mx not like it used to be...we used to see a mx delay maybe once every 6 months or so...now it happens about every month..who knows! It's nothing like Mesa though...we want our HP jets back in the worst way!  Sad
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STT757
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 12:19 pm

The problem is that yields are being trashed on domestic routes out of JFK, while it is true that JFK just (this year) regained the title of busiest NY airport (thanks to Jetblue who's traffic grew a whopping 40% last year) the problem is all the growth at JFK is low yield Jetblue, Song and American's forays into Jetblue markets such as Long Beach.

Yields suck from JFK and are getting worse, that's why no major has ever had a "true" hub at JFK. It's gotten worse with Jetblue, DL is scaling back their trans-cons.

DL now has only one flight from JFK-SFO, a 757.
DL still has 3 daily flights from JFK-LAX but two of those are now 757s, eventually it's quite possible Song will take over DL's Trans-Cons since most are already 757s.

Things at JFK are getting worse for the Majors, AA has eliminated all Eagle flights except BOS, DCA and YUL from JFK. They are also reducing the size of their new terminal (which the completion date for has now been pushed back to 2008) , instead of the originally planned 55 gates it will now have 39.

No Eagle gates.

Newark has the advantage of drawing NYC traffic but also being "somewhat" insulated from the Low Fare yield trashing by Jetblue at JFK and WN at Islip.

Newark has a much stronger base of business travelers, that's why there are so many UAL and AA flights from EWR to Denver, Chicago, DFW etc and no UAL flights from JFK to Denver or Chicago. And also why AA only has 2 flights from JFK to DFW and none to Chicago.

EWR and LGA get the business travelers, JFK gets low yield folks.

DL originally flew from EWR-LAX up untill '92, even after DL took over Pan Am's JFK hub and Trans-Atlantic routes from JFK DL was still flying twice Daily from EWR-LAX with 767-200s.

Even back in the '80s when Eastern had a large JFK presence they flew trans-Cons out of EWR with 757s.

AA and UAL's 767-200 flights from JFK-LAX and SFO are unique in that they have a long history and strong connection to Hollywood folks who "glamorized" the routes for AA and UAL.

However don't be suprised if this changes, with the approaching retirement of the 767-200 fleet for AA and UAL there might be changes in the wind.

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
cdfmxtech
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 12:38 pm

though there have been more delays with the CO mainline jets....mx not like it used to be

Interesting comment!
 
flyboyaz
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 12:41 pm

It's just something we have noticed more...but in this poor economy, I guess cuts have to be made. I do remember when a plane broke....they could not easily find a part for it....it was a common part but they had none on hand. We guessed that maybe they were limiting their number of spare parts to save money. They are still very reliable though!
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 12:46 pm

Newark has a much stronger base of business travelers, that's why there are so many UAL and AA flights from EWR to Denver, Chicago, DFW etc and no UAL flights from JFK to Denver or Chicago. And also why AA only has 2 flights from JFK to DFW and none to Chicago

Not exactly that simple either.

AA/UA have quite clearly chosen LGA as their gateway to Queens/Manhattan... for them to fly ORD-JFK would be quite redundant as the sole purpose for many such travelers would be to connect to int'l flights, which can already be done for either carrier at ORD.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
tommy767
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 12:56 pm

Did DL ever operate from EWR-DFW? And why did they discontinue the LAX flights in 92'? DL has always had a medium presence at EWR, but these routes are interesting. Lets also not forget the EWR-FRA flights.

CO has the strength in EWR. I'm not sure why they would get caught up in the what I would like to call "Transcontinental WARS" at Kennedy. They would have JBlue, AA, UA, and DL to compete with. Very unlikely to happen.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 1:00 pm

DOES CO SERVE JFK?????
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
cdfmxtech
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 1:06 pm

Yes, a couple of flights to hubs not names EWR
 
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STT757
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 1:06 pm

DL flew from EWR-DFW up untill '99 or 2000.

And CO flies from IAH to JFK with 737-500s, CLE with ERJ-145s.

Back in '87-'88 right before the EWR got going CO operated JFK-Honolulu-Sydney with a DC-10 3-4 times weekly, the flights operated out of the old Eastern Terminal.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
prosa
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 1:18 pm

CO has the strength in EWR. I'm not sure why they would get caught up in the what I would like to call "Transcontinental WARS" at Kennedy. They would have JBlue, AA, UA, and DL to compete with.

And, soon, HP.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Delta777Jet
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 11:17 pm

Delta never operated from EWR to Frankfurt ! Never!!!!!
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ContinentalEWR
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 11:29 pm

Oh yes they did! Delta briefly flew EWR-FRA in the early 1990's, just after the Pan Am North Atlantic purchase. The route was operated with a 767-300 and it lasted a few months. This was at the time when Delta was maintaining and strengthening Pan Am's hub at Frankfurt Main. At that time, Delta flew twice daily from JFK to Frankfurt and once daily from EWR. It was 1993 or 1994.

ContinentalEWR
 
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STT757
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RE: CO Transcon From JFK?

Sun Sep 28, 2003 12:36 am

DL did indeed fly EWR-FRA, as mentioned with a 767-300. I think the flight might have lasted almost two years, almost.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757

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