tommy767
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Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:15 pm

What are some airline hubs that do not exist anymore?

AA: BNA, RDU

UAL: I hear CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO and CLE?

DL: ?

USAIR: I hear CLE, but also Dayton and Indianapolis

CO: Stapleton

NW: DCA?
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
flyCMH
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:18 pm

America West: Columbus
 
futureualpilot
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:27 pm

PSA and SAN!
Pan Am and Miami

I understand that both airlines are defunct, but I still miss them!
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sccutler
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:33 pm

MCI- Eastern and Braniff (II).
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
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STT757
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:33 pm

NWA-
BOS and DCA

CO-
Denver Stapleton, Washington Dulles, Greensboro

AA-
Raleigh, Nashville

DL-
LAX, PDX

UAL-
CLE, Orlando, and to a certain extent MIA and JFK because of the Latin America cut backs.

US Air/ways-
Cleveland, Indianapolis, Syracuse, Dayton, Kansas City, Newark, Orlando, LAX

America West-
Columbus

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
N839MH
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:38 pm

DL: DFW, it's just a bunch of little RJ's....DFW won't last for DL
Solodude!
 
ckfred
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:45 pm

Reno Air: RNO

AA basically sold SJC to Reno, then bought Reno to get it back.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:46 pm

NWA we can probably say about MEM since that seems to be going all RJ too.
 
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STT757
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:46 pm

One more..

Delta-
Frankfurt
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Guest

RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:46 pm

The Dayton hub mentioned above was actually a Piedmont Airlines hub.

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Of course. Piedment merged with USAir to make US Airways. So the Dayton hub became redundant.

 
Guest

RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Mon Sep 29, 2003 11:14 pm

Piedmont also had a hub at SYR.
 
prosa
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Mon Sep 29, 2003 11:25 pm

Piedmont also had a hub at SYR.

Another inherited hub, from Piedmont's purchase of Empire.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 1:08 am

Pride @ MSY

WPac @ COS

PanAm & TWA @ JFK

Continental @ LAX

Texas Int'l @ IAH

Braniff @ DFW
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jeffrey1970
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 1:15 am

Piedmont also had a hub at BWI
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flyboyaz
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 1:32 am

I just flew to BWI and was shocked to see that USAirways had hardly any gates left...Piedmont used to have almost the whole airport! They had some commuter flights and lots of empty spaces....very sad. America West moved into one of their old gates.

Piedmont was a great airline...one of 2 (PSA) that US screwed over.
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zrs70
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 1:52 am

TW:
ATL
MCI
PIT

RC:
PHX

DL:
MEM

EA:
CLT
ATL
MCI
MIA

UR:
SYR
ROC

BN:
MCI
SFW

17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
copaair737
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 2:05 am

Didnt NW have a hub in Montana like a long ass time ago? I think it was billings. Mesaba did just buy out Big Sky, so could you count BIL as a hub for NW???
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
flyboyaz
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 2:08 am

I remember when TW had a hub in ATL...in the early 90's...probably right after EA went under.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
PVD757
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 2:15 am

USAIRWAYS/METROJET: BWI
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 2:18 am

Zrs70--as much as we Rochesterians appreciate the compliment, ROC wasn't a hub for Empire. SYR was their hub, and the other Upstate cities were focus cities. Empire typically had 13-15 daily F-28's from Rochester, to places like SYR, BOS, LGA, EWR, JFK, and ALB. At its height, UR typically ran around 70-80 dailies from SYR, split between F-28's and Swearingen Metros.

Empire, and then Piedmont, was great for competition in the Northeast. Heaven knows USAir needed competition. As Flyboyaz noted, UR/ PI got screwed over by US, as did the cities that lost competition through that merger.

Several people here have argued in other threads that RDU, and maybe BNA, could have survived if AA had made them mostly-RJ hubs. But RJ's weren't widespread yet. And AA's pilots would have gone ballistic, and at that time gotten away with it, if AA had tried to save those hubs with RJ's.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
jeffrey1970
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 2:41 am

Did Northwest ever have a hub in Raleigh, NC? Because I seem to remember back in the early 90's I flew from DCA to Melboune, Florida on Northwest, and I am sure I changed planes in Raleigh.

God bless through Jesus,

Jeff
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
midexjet
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 3:56 am

NW @ mke is another one that is gone..
 
Air1727
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 4:21 am

The term "hub" is definately abused; a lot of these were only gateways and never hubs. Pan Am also had a hub in Houston (IAH). Republic's gateway in Phoenix was acquired from Hughes Airwest. Northwest's gateway in Milwaukee was certainly one folks forget, as well as Delta's Memphis hub. Continental's tenure at Washington Dulles and Denver Stapleton were also ones people forget about. Orlando was only a true hub to two carriers; Florida Express and Braniff II (which acquired Florida Express). Braniff II started with a hub in Dallas (DFW) and then moved operations to Kansas City.

Saint Louis had its fair share; Trans World, Ozark, Air 1, and was also a gateway for Eastern. Atlanta has been infested by Southern, Republic, Delta, Eastern, Trans World (gateway), and so on. So much depth to some airports.

Very cool thread!
In the Alaska bush I'd rather have a two hour bladder and three hours of gas than vice versa.
 
USAIRWAYS321
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 4:27 am

Jeffrey1970: Northwest never had an RDU hub, but American did for a while around the time your flight was taken. Perhaps you are mistaken on the airline. US Airways (USAir at the time) would've been the only other airline from DCA-MLB with a North Carolina (Charlotte) connection.

Edit: typo

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy Smile/happy/getting dizzy Smile/happy/getting dizzyUSAIRWAYS321 Smile/happy/getting dizzy Smile/happy/getting dizzy Smile/happy/getting dizzy

[Edited 2003-09-29 21:29:49]
 
tommy767
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 5:05 am

Neat responses!

TWA at ATL? what were some of the gateways?

When did DL have a hub in MEM?

When did UA start and stop there "intense" MCO operations......

and there CLE ops.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
zrs70
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 5:06 am

New York Air had a mini hub at RDU for a while as well.
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
JohnJ
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 5:30 am

"When did DL have a hub in MEM?"

They had a long-standing regional hub in Memphis all the way into the early 1980s. Remember, Chicago and Southern Airlines was based in Memphis at the time of its 1953 merger with Delta, and was, I believe, larger than Delta. It's not inconceivable that Delta could have been based in Memphis rather than Atlanta. I grew up in Memphis in the late 1970s and can clearly remember seeing Delta L-1011s and DC-8s at the airport. I made a special trip out to the airport one day in the early 1980s to get a look at my first 757, of course on Delta. Delta used mostly DC-9s and 727s into Memphis during its days as a hub.

The hub was dismantled right about the time Republic Airlines announced it would more than double its Memphis presence. Here's a timetable from 1979 that shows 53 daily Delta flights operating from Memphis:

http://www.geocities.com/gjh1975/DL121579Page11.html
 
cmb320
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 5:53 am

Don't forget Continental's attempt at El Paso in the 80's.
 
electraBob
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 6:36 am

A couple of questions:

Did Mohawk Airlines have a hub or hubs? If so, where?

Did Delta briefly operate a hub in the northeast (perhaps Boston) after it merged with Northeast Airlines in 1972?
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.....
 
Air1727
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 7:08 am

Delta did keep a lot of the flights Northeast had, but slowly disposed of several routes over time. Northwest also had a gateway in Boston for any years which was also not mentioned.
In the Alaska bush I'd rather have a two hour bladder and three hours of gas than vice versa.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 7:26 am

Northwest also had a gateway in Boston for any years which was also not
mentioned.


It was mentioned in the fourth post.
a.
 
BillElliott9
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 7:28 am

NW @ TPA
YX @ OMA (now will probably be a Skyway only city)
You can fight without ever winning but never really win without a fight.
 
BOSugaDL
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 10:13 am

When did NW have a hub at BOS? and where did they fly? I can only assume that NW had trans-atlantic flight to make it a hub at BOS
 
B4REAL
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 10:29 am

N839MH:

DL is adding a 767-300 back to DFW later this year from ATL. A possible rebirth of the #4 hub in their network? The RJs are saving the airlines that use them (IMHO).

Others

I agree with some other statements, just because an airline has some market-driven routes (not to another hub), that doesn't make it a hub or even a focus city. But just a station!
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
CitationX
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 10:30 am

Does anyone remember Continental Lite's short-lived attempt to hub out of GSO?

The late-Vanguard and the final incarnation of Braniff tried to hub out of MCI.

The late-Pacific Western tried to hub out of Colorado Springs.
 
elwood64151
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RE: Airline Hubs That Are No More :(

Tue Sep 30, 2003 10:56 am

Sccutler:

Your forgot,

MCI: Vanguard. Also, way back, TWA.

CitationX:

You beat me to it! Also, it was Western Pacific at COS, not Pacific Western. They were very successful at COS, but decided to move to DEN, and the costs of doing so killed them...

I'll also add:

IAD: ValueJet had increasing operations at IAD, really a focus city that might have become a hub were it not for Flt 592...

MCO: AirTran's hub here has become the number 1 focus city for the new AirTran, but it's no longer really a hub. It may soon be surpassed by BWI, which is growing into a hub...

A lot of people are listing "hubs" that never really were hubs in the modern sense of the term. What were connecting cities during the "bad/good" (your choice) old days of regulation would today be called a focus city or gateway.

Modern hubs have significantly higher numbers of flights than their counterparts around the system. For example, AirTran has nearly 300 daily operations at ATL (maybe more), while only 6-10 operations at the majority of its outstations (opeation = 1 t/o or 1 landing). Prior to deregulation, the CAB kept airlines from operating in such a way that the majority of its flights operated from any one airport, and no airport was dominated by any one carrier to the point that others could not also have significant operations there.

I'm not arguing, I'm just pointing out that the definition of "hub" has changed.

Actually, I don't think anyone really thought of any city as a "hub" way back when, excepting when they grew naturally out of the geography, such as Braniff's organic hub at DFW, or Delta's organic hub at ATL. However, many of these gateway cities were effectively hubs because the airlines chose to schedule their flights with connections through those airports, like AA at BNA.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.