flybynight
Posts: 1131
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 1:58 pm

Too Big For The Seat

Wed Oct 01, 2003 1:24 pm

Whatever happened with airline charging, how shall I say, gravitationally challenged passengers (as in overweight) for two seats.
I believe someone sued, and won(!!), a lawsuit against one of the big airlines for having to sit next to someone too big for their seat.
Heia Norge!
 
UAL747
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RE: Too Big For The Seat

Wed Oct 01, 2003 1:27 pm

I think it's rediculous. They aren't a government service. If you are too fat, it's usually by your own accord. Unless you can prove by doctor documentation that it's not your own fault, then airlines have EVERY right to charge for two seats, that or you can buy a first class ticket.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
tekelberry
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RE: Too Big For The Seat

Wed Oct 01, 2003 1:29 pm

WN does this.

You buy a ticket on a per passenger basis, not a per seat basis. It seems pretty discriminating to me.

Gravitationally challenged? That doesn't even make any sense...
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Wed Oct 01, 2003 1:51 pm

Heres a rule of thumb to live by:

If you are too fat for a coach seat then you probably shouldnt be travelling by airplane in the first place.

The airlines have every right to charge people for two seats. By taking two seats, and only paying for one the airline is LOSING REVENUE.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Guest

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Wed Oct 01, 2003 2:03 pm

speaking of weight.. what is the magic number airline pilots use for calculating a passengers weight for the purposes of weight and balance?
 
WMUPilot
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RE: Too Big For The Seat

Wed Oct 01, 2003 2:32 pm

Every airline has the overweight passenger rule in the operations manual...just not many airlines choose to strictly enforce it as it may come back to bite them. I know I try to get a passenger in a seat that will work for them or, in the case of C8 and the SAAB's, i'll try to give them their own row on the double sde.

As for weight C8 has 2 different weights that we use. Summer and Winter Weights. Winter weights are heavier because now we take into account passengers and their winter coats. I think for the summer we use 150lbs for each adult (average) and 175lbs for the winter weight.
JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
 
WesternDC1010
Posts: 306
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RE: Too Big For The Seat

Wed Oct 01, 2003 3:11 pm

Jcs17 and UaL747,

Lets not be too critical now. You may end up needing two seats aboard an airliner one day!

WesternDC1010
Western Airlines - The Only Way To Fly
 
PER744
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 11:38 am

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:51 pm

Let's implement per-pound airfares! (Would be good for me, seeing I weigh less than 120)  Wink/being sarcastic
 
BN747
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RE: Aviation Lovers- We Are Not Terrorists. Speak

Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:10 pm

I was on a AA 727 outta MBJ to MIA..luckily I gotta window seat..luck didn't last long, shortly thereafter, a 270+lb woman sweezed into the middle seat...if I had to whiz...it wasn't gonna happen until we landed in MIA. She was an employee non-reving. But I felt awful for her..it was palpable that she was extremely uncomfortable (in the small Y seat) and the fact that myself and the other guy was now trying to be comfy as possible and not be cognizant of parts of her settling onto parts of our seats. Not to mention 'owning' the armrest. I tried to stare out the window the entire time. Breakfast was served..she refused. After I finished..I took off my CD headset and decided to speak with her because I knew she was not enjoying this situation. She was a really nice person, a res. agent. I'm certain the conversation put her at great ease...cuz she didn't shut up until touchdown. I don't want to diss fat people but there has to be something done in situations like this..because had this been a MIA-LHR or LAX-AA), Japan">NRT flight...there's no way on earth I was gonna put with that situation!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Too Big For The Seat

Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:11 pm

>>>The airlines have every right to charge people for two seats. By taking two seats, and only paying for one the airline is LOSING REVENUE.

The issue has nothing to do with lost revenue, and everything to do with customer service/satisfaction of the pax being impinged upon by the person-of-size on one or both sides of them. They were complaining, and rightly so.

Different airlines have different policies, and from what I recall about SWA's was that you can get a refund of that second seat ticket if the flight wasn't full and you didn't have anyone next to you. Surely, if it was truly about "losing revenue" they wouldn't have that policy

It is obvious that the issue of larger customers is a sensitive one, and some of those affected feel (and react) as if they're being targeted or are otherwise victims. I respect their right to feel that way, but have to note that if a person's personal volume is such that it spills over the armrest in the adjacent seat's volume (and the person sitting there), doesn't -that- person have rights and a basic customer service expectation? Those of the ones who were complaining, and the ones the airlines reacted to.

If folks will go checkout the actual policy of their airline (instead of relying on "I heard that..." or other inaccurate stuff, I think they'd find that the policies are not that unreasonable.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
BeltwayBandit
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:25 am

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:57 pm

If I (200lbs) decided that I could only sit cross-legged, and as a result I consumed two seat widths, then I should absolutely pay for two seats. You use the space, you pay for it. It's not discrimination unless you charge differently for the same product.

Is it discrimination for Hanes to charge more for XXXL briefs than they charge for M or S briefs? Use more, pay more.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Too Big For The Seat

Wed Oct 01, 2003 10:33 pm

They don't go by weight. They would go by whose stomach etc starts seeping over onto another person's seat.

You can't really go by weight.

A 300 pound woman most likely would take up more than one seat, or a man 5'6" 300 pounds. A muscular man who maybe is 6'6" 300 pounds like a pro wrestler with only 10% bodyfat is big but probably wouldn't be big enough that the person sitting next to the window is going to be squashed against the side of the plane.

Not only is it a revenue issue, but it is also a safety issue. If the plane makes an emergency landing and people need to get off as quickly as possible- a 300 pound athlete would probably be able to get up quickly, but the 300 pound woman or 300 pound non athlete is not going to be so quick to move out of the seat and the people behind him/her cannot just simply climb over them either.


Back when air travel was starting in the 20s, they used to have scales at airports to weigh passengers before they got on a plane.
 
goingboeing
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RE: Too Big For The Seat

Wed Oct 01, 2003 10:35 pm

Southwest took a lot of heat when they announced the enforcement of this policy that has been on their (and most other airlines) books for quite some time. The "solution" proposed by the groups that opposed this policy was for the airlines to "simply" provide wider seats. They didn't say what the airlines should do about recovering lost revenues caused by the loss of seats on their aircraft. The most vocal group was NAFAA, and at one of their conferences, they invited representatives from Delta, American, and Southwest to address the topic. Southwest explained the program, and explained that if the flight were not sold out, those passengers who paid for two tickets would recieve a full refund (even for nonrefundable tickets) for the "unused" seat. The whole idea was to have those who won't fit in a seat that is 17 inches wide to go ahead and purchase a second seat in advance...saving themselves the "embarassment" of being denied boarding on the day of the flight should the flight prove to be full.

A big hoopla was made about "selling" a second seat at the gate, and the decision for requiring the seat was to be made by the gate agent. But they didn't address the concept that IF the flight was not sold out, they would be refunded the price of the second ticket - and they didn't address how on earth one was supposed to buy a second seat on a flight that was sold out. At the NAFAA conference, the reps from Delta and American kind of danced around the issue, although the NAFAA members applauded their "sensitivity". Basically, what AA and Delta said was that they would only do something if someone else complained...in other words, make the customer out to be the bad guy, not the airline. But AA and Delta were avoiding the issue of a full flight. And if you read their responses closely, would subject the obese person to even more humiliation, since they proposed trying to find someone who would not object to sitting next to the obese person while everybody was already on the plane. If no volunteers could be found, the obese person would be placed on the next available flight out. WMUpilot sort of responded the way that they did....we'll just give you your own row. But what do you do if there aren't any empty seats on the plane? Whose "rights" or more important, the obese person who needs to share your seat, or the person whose seat is being shared?

As for the policy on other airlines, should an obese person who paid for a rock bottom fare be given priority for a first class seat over an "elite" customer looking for an upgrade? Whose goodwill is more important - the occasional obese passenger, or the passenger who flies you on a weekly basis?

[Edited 2003-10-01 15:36:50]
 
Greg
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RE: Too Big For The Seat

Wed Oct 01, 2003 10:39 pm

I believe the customer that won the lawsuit had her arm literally trapped in the fat fold of some glutton sitting next to her. There were no other seats onboard--even up front.

I'd give her money too. But more realistically, I would have demanded to deplane.

I've only heard of the case, I have not read the brief....
 
luv2fly
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RE: Too Big For The Seat

Wed Oct 01, 2003 10:53 pm

Yes I believe the people who were forced to sit next to the overweight person for the flight have recovered money when taking them to court. Now the overweight who have challenged the rules about buying 2 seats have all lost the cases. Go into any store and look at men's clothes t-shirts in size small to 2X-Large is one price and then from 3X and higher the price is more.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
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RE: Too Big For The Seat

Thu Oct 02, 2003 1:38 am

Different airlines have different policies, and from what I recall about SWA's was that you can get a refund of that second seat ticket if the flight wasn't full and you didn't have anyone next to you. Surely, if it was truly about "losing revenue" they wouldn't have that policy

Regardless of what you may think, it's about passenger comfort AND losing revenue.

You provide a disservice to a customer who has an obese seatmate literally spilling over the armrest into their seat. You also lose revenue if you just give an obese person a "comfort" seat next to the one they purchased, as it could have been sold to another revenue customer.

Clearly this only becomes an issue if the flight is totally full, but it's an issue of lost revenue nonetheless.

The problem is that in today's "I'm a victim, and therefore cannot be held accountable for anything," society, this concept of "Obesity Tolerance" has become ridiculous. It's not up to others to make accomodations for someone who has, for one reason or another, gotten morbidly obese. It's their burden to bear, and if that means they occasionally have to buy a second seat on airplanes, in movie theaters, etc...then so be it.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
elwood64151
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RE: Too Big For The Seat

Thu Oct 02, 2003 3:46 am

OPNLguy:

No, it has everything to do with the airlines losing revenue. Most human beings fit into an airline seat. The airlines base their fares upon how many seats are available on the plane, due to economies of scale. If you're going to take up more than one, then the airline might as well have charged twice the price and put half as many seats in. Oh, wait. YX has tried to do this and failed!

HlywdCatft:

Actually, they recommend you do exactly that. In an emergency situation, do everything you can to make it to the door. If you feel you're going to die, climb over the seat. Just don't try to squeeze out of the door once you're there.

When I was at Vanguard, we had people call up in advance asking about buying two seats. Obviously, people have known about these regulations. The people who are now complaining about them are probably the people who would never have flown prior to deregulation.

A lot of people seem to think that it is their right to "feel good". While I certainly encourage people to feel good about themselves, I do not want that at the cost of my wallet, as that would be violating my rights. If I am a shareholder of an airline and I find out they are giving seats to obese passengers that could otherwise be sold for more money, then I'm going to be pissed.

For many people it is their choice to remain obese, whether by laziness or psychological defeatism. I'm overweight, though only by 15 pounds over the upper limit of my "ideal weight range". I know I could lose that weight if I tried, but I don't. That's my choice. It's not dibilitating and so it's not important to me.

Say all you want to about "fat genes" and "eating disorders", but you can always simply say to yourself, "I'm not going to eat too much today." I have in fact done this today. I'm not going to eat too much. I'm going to resist the Chocolate Chip Ice Cream in my freezer. I'm going to avoid the potato chips on my stove. I can do it. So can 99.9% of everyone else.

Okay, I've ranted. Flame me.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
767Lover
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RE: Too Big For The Seat

Thu Oct 02, 2003 6:21 am

Now, granted I don't know what's involved in assigning seats to pax, so I don't know what happened here, but I was on a flight that was not full, and an extremely heavy pax was assigned to sit next to me -- she by the window, me on the aisle on the "2" side of a 3-2 config. She took up half of MY seat. Yet there were a couple of empty rows on the plane.

I'm not sure why the agent didn't seat her in an empty row in the first place. Wouldn't this be an obvious choice for an extremely heavy pax?

I snuck up to one of those empty rows before we left the terminal. I felt kind of embarrassed because it was obvious why.
 
WNfan
Posts: 198
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RE: Too Big For The Seat

Thu Oct 02, 2003 6:51 am

I like Southwest's policy. If you need two seats, you pay for two seats, and if the flight isn't full, you don't pay extra after all. Very sensible.

I believe the policy is that if a passenger can't sit down between the armrests without raising them, then they require two seats. Also very sensible to me. Passengers of size can easily book two seats and then request a refund after the flight.

I don't like the AA and DL policies mentioned above; relying on passengers to complain is not a proactive way to deal with the situation.
 
Spacepope
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RE: Too Big For The Seat

Thu Oct 02, 2003 6:57 am

The lawsuit where someone sued the airline for damages was against Delta. Evidently the story goes something like this: the plaintiff is flying on the 2 seat side of an MD-80. He gets the window seat. The aisle seat end up being occupied by an obese man. The plaintiff said something to the effect that he ended up being pressed against the side of the aircraft, and was "fused to the other man from the shoulders to the knees" for the duration of the flight. he sued for emotional trauma, and claimed medical expenses to his neck/back from being shoved into the side of the plane.

T.J.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
DFWLandingPath
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2001 12:17 pm

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Thu Oct 02, 2003 7:18 am

Not to be mean or anything, but what about the safety issue of exiting the plane in the event of an emergency, how is that adressed?

Cheers,
DFWLandingPath
 
leviticus
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RE: Too Big For The Seat

Thu Oct 02, 2003 7:29 am

Jus for the record... a couple of days ago I saw an interview with the Italian opera singer Luciano Pavarotti and he was "complaining" (actually he was mad as hell) about that he could not fit into the Business Class seats on Alitalia.

Regards
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Too Big For The Seat

Thu Oct 02, 2003 7:38 am

>>>Luciano Pavarotti and he was "complaining" (actually he was mad as hell) about that he could not fit into the Business Class seats on Alitalia.

It makes you wonder what Alitalia was supposed to have done--charter a USAF C-5 for him?  Big grin
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2557
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RE: Too Big For The Seat

Thu Oct 02, 2003 9:49 am

2big..2seats

I was recently on a DLConnection flight from GRR to CVG on the CRJ-700 series.

This guy must have been over 475 lbs. just huge and over 6'6", I was in the Window seat, he walks down the aisle, part of him bumps on me (I'm in the window seat of a 2x2 config) - and he stunk (another of today's topics). I think he was Russian as well (so no one could talk to him) or he did not know how to talk.

We had a weight balance issue preventing takeoff - he moved forward of the landing gear around row 12, and we were able to take off. He had two seats to himself (thank goodness the flight was not full) and I think he was miserable and I think I saw two extensions on the seat belt.

If the flight was full, he should have been (no-charge) reaccomodated on another DL/DLConnection flight in coach that would have an empty seat next to him. Offer him a discount to do the same on another airline. Or - refund his money.

That would have been a nightmare if the flight was full. There is no way someone could have sit next to him in a seat, nor on his lap, nor on one of his rolls.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
skyhawk
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 12:23 pm

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:09 am

767lover-to try and answer your question as best I can. Depending on the program each airline uses, normally the computer will assign the seat to each person. The agent doesn't have as much to do with seat assignments as they used to. Example, the first row on what used to be DLX was held back by the computer to be used for special needs people(unless of course a person requested the first row). The same idea applies to certain other rows-they may be the last assigned because the company deems them to be the least desirable. That is why so much of the time as a non-rev we get assigned the middle seat(one of the least desirable). Yes of course the agent can change a previously issued seat, but if a mention is not made then it may not be noticed that a change is needed.
 
jeffrey1970
Posts: 1235
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2001 1:41 am

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:51 am

I am a rather large person who is 290 lbs. I can see the airlines point in charging a large person the price for two seats since space is what airlines sell, and well if you take up more then your allotted space then you should have to pay for that. However if a skinny person decides to spread themselves out and hog up space, shouldn't the FA's then demand that they either stop doing that or pay extra. Also, if space is a concern, what about the person who decides to use more then one seat to lay down. Eventhough they may be laying down on seats that are unoccupied, they only paid for one seat. Anyway, my point is I do agree that large people should have to pay extra if they take up too much space. However airlines have to be very careful as to how they apply this. To those future passengers who will be flying with me; I know I am a big person, and I know that is of my own doing. Airline seats are sometimes comfortable to me, and sometimes not comfortable. I will promise that I will do as I always do with the arm rest, and that I will try not and take up too much of it, or I might even let you have it all. Since I usually prefer an isle seat, if you need to use the bathroom I will gladly move out of my seat so that you can get by. Unfortunately, for those of you that do not like flying with large people I love to fly. I plan on continuing to fly whether I lose weight or not. The only thing I ask is if you ask to be moved from sitting next to me, please don't give me a rude look as you move to a different seat (that has happened to me before).

May God bless you and everyone through Jesus Christ with lots of love,

Jeff
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
SWAFA30
Posts: 436
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RE: Too Big For The Seat

Thu Oct 02, 2003 11:48 am

Not to be mean or anything, but what about the safety issue of exiting the plane in the event of an emergency, how is that adressed?

I can't speak for other carriers but at WN, passengers who require a seatbelt extension are not permitted to occupy an exit row seat.
 
cancidas
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Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:34 am

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Thu Oct 02, 2003 12:12 pm

could we be a little more sensative to those of us that are a bit 'gravitationally challenged?'  Nuts i do think that it is fair. i manage to fit into one seat, im not that fat. but i do think that charging people that don't makes sense, financially if not morally. maybe they could charge these people two fares on the NYC subways....?
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
Motorhussy
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Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Thu Oct 02, 2003 7:12 pm

I fly Polynesian Airlines every-so-often between Samoa and New Zealand.

They always have the chubby old boys up the front of the cabin and have special seat-belt extensions for them.

I shouldn't laugh, but...

Yeah, airlines have businesses to run and it's very much based on power to weight ratio and the cost involved. They have to charge, but people worldwide are getting, not just fatter, but bigger overall, so Boeing and Airbus have got to start innovating in terms of ergonomics as well!
come visit the south pacific
 
prosa
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RE: Too Big For The Seat

Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:14 pm

could we be a little more sensative to those of us that are a bit 'gravitationally challenged?' i do think that it is fair. i manage to fit into one seat, im not that fat. but i do think that charging people that don't makes sense, financially if not morally. maybe they could charge these people two fares on the NYC subways....?

The subway analogy doesn't really apply, because payment of fares entitles people to entry into the system, not necessarily to seats.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:28 pm

I thought people could stand on the subway, so passenger comfort is kind of a moot point.
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:33 pm


**could we be a little more sensative to those of us that are a bit 'gravitationally challenged?' i do think that it is fair. i manage to fit into one seat, im not that fat. but i do think that charging people that don't makes sense, financially if not morally. maybe they could charge these people two fares on the NYC subways....?**

Yeah it makes sense to charge someone who is 450 pounds that takes up half of another seat. You can't sit anyone else there and the airline loses money by not charging for the seat used. If the fat people can afford to go out and buy extra food to make them that big, then they can afford an extra seat.


**and he stunk (another of today's topics).**

This is an even more bothersome issue to me. On a couple of occassions I have had to ride next to people from certain cultures that don't know what the bathtub in their house is for or what something called deodrant is. Yes I support cultural diversity, but there is a point I think when you go out in public I think in this situation you should follow our countries culture if you are going to be out in public. I know in certain cultures the scent of BO is considered a sign of manliness, but here it is a sign of uncleanliness. To make a long story short, unfortunately both flights were totally full so I couldn't get my seat changed. The good thing was both were short hops. I have spoken to people who used to fly DTW-AMS on KLM or Northwest and had to sit next to people like that for the whole trip, now that would suck.
 
cancidas
Posts: 3985
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:34 am

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:47 pm

did you all notice that little smiley with his eye spinning? ok, take a chill pill and read my post: i do think that it is fair. i manage to fit into one seat, im not that fat. but i do think that charging people that don't makes sense, financially...
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
CanadianNorth
Posts: 3133
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:41 am

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Thu Oct 02, 2003 11:22 pm

Airlines make money by selling seats. More seats they fill the more money they make, Thats how it goes. If you can not fit in the seat because of yer weight then its yer own damn fault.
Why should the airlines pay for the extra seat because you decided to go eat McDonalds and watch tv instead of getting some exercise.

So the bottom line is, You buy a seat on an airplane. If you can not fit in it then it is yer own damn problem so it is up to you to either buy a second seat or buy an upgrade to bizz or first class.

CanadianNorth
What could possibly go wrong?
 
BeltwayBandit
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:25 am

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Fri Oct 03, 2003 6:44 am

I despise the "blame everyone but yourself for your problems" trend in society, and I suspect that a vast (huge?) majority of obese people are so due to choice and weaknesses. However, some of the venom you read here is kind of scary.

Let's focus the analysis on logic and economics. Take up more than one seat, and pay for more than one seat. It's not important whether you take up that space due to a personal shortcoming or genetics. Whether a person is perceived as disreputable, disgusting or weak-willed has no bearing on this issue at all. Worse yet, this kind of talk only propels the issue into one of discrimination, which only supports nutty legislation and litigation.
 
JGPH1A
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Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Fri Oct 03, 2003 11:32 pm

Technically, when you buy the ticket, the contract is to transport you, the person, from point a to point b. It does not say, we will transport 80kg of you, after that you pay more. The choice of the airline to make the seats 17in wide is purely arbitrary, if they had made them 21 inches wide, then far fewer people would have a problem. If the airlines have a problem transporting large people in a single seat because of them squashing other passengers, give them a bigger seat ie. upgrade them. Or give them 2 seats. Or say on the ticket "If you way more than 200lb, buy 2 seats".
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Sat Oct 04, 2003 12:30 am

The choice of the airline to make the seats 17in wide is purely arbitrary, if they had made them 21 inches wide, then far fewer people would have a problem.

Not really...they are limited by cabin width. If you made them 21" wide, you'd have no aisle. So you'd have to remove one seat per side. Now you've reduced the capacity of the plane by 1/3, and in effect, raised prices for the vast majority of folks who can fit in a 17 inch wide seat - in effect, everybody subsidizes those who can't.

If the airlines have a problem transporting large people in a single seat because of them squashing other passengers, give them a bigger seat ie. upgrade them.

So...if a first class seat is sitting out there with a $700 price tag on it, and they pay $150 for their coach seat, then it's okay to give them the premium seat for a super discount price? What if someone who was petite wanted to BUY that seat - should they be moved to coach so that the airline could accomodate the other passenger?

Or give them 2 seats. Or say on the ticket "If you way more than 200lb, buy 2 seats".

Giving the two seats on a sold out flight means the airline lost revenue. And talk about your aritrary numbers....I have weighed as much as 240 pounds, yet I easily fit into a 17 inch seat without raising the armrest. The airlines pretty much already say that if you cannot fit in a single seat without raising the armrest, you are not entitled to a second seat free, nor are you entitled to travel in a different class of service than what was purchased.

[Edited 2003-10-03 17:31:23]
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Sat Oct 04, 2003 12:51 am

If you're that fat, buy a first-class ticket.

C'mon, tasty, low-fat, healthy foods have been available in the U.S. for many years, as have jogging shoes, treadmills and other tools to let you control your weight and health.

And has anyone noticed that you never see really fat people (I'm talking about 300-400+ pounds) older than 45 or so? That's because they all DIE!

I feel no pity for the gravitationally challanged. I myself could loose 30 pounds or so, but I know it's my own damned fault I have them. It would be dishonest of me to have other people lose money because of my actions.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Jumbolino
Posts: 473
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 4:15 am

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Sat Oct 04, 2003 1:21 am

everything is said with the last posting, but I vote for the idea with pay per weight, as I fit in clothes made for 12 year old children I aim to get a youth fare  Wink/being sarcastic
and I don't accept that I pay the full fare and then the check-in girl place on a sold out ATR the most fat pax into the seat nearby me that I felt like a thunfish after being sold in the supermarket.

Jumbolino.

[Edited 2003-10-03 18:22:05]
Kind Regards, Jutta.
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Sat Oct 04, 2003 1:47 am

Goingboeing brings up an interesting point:

Let's suppose the airline does increase the seat width to say 21" instead of 17". On a 3X3 config, this means 24" more of seat space, effectively. Therefore, to accommodate the aisle, it would be necessary to go to a 3X2 config (and even then you'd be encroaching into the aisle by 3 more inches, but let's pretend this isn't a big issue.)

The average Delta 738 has 138 seats in coach. Taking out one seat per row brings the total down to 115 -- a difference of 23 seats.

Does anyone know how much yield there is per seat in coach? If the loss of 23 seats is spread over 115 passengers, how much are we really talking? For the sake of argument, let's say it costs $125 to fly a passenger in a coach seat (correct the figure, please.) The airline loses $2900 by taking out that one row of seats....but this can be recouped by charging $25 extra per those 115 remaining pax.

I think most people would be willing to pay $25 more -- even $40 more -- for extra room, don't you? I know I would.
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Sat Oct 04, 2003 2:00 am

And about the venomous attitude being displayed by a number of posters here: yes, there are people out there who are lazy and gluttonous. There are also people out there who struggle with their weight and can't help it. I agree that it is a frustrating issue but do they have to be talked about with such incredible hatred?

Personally, I find it ten times more irritating when people insist on smoking cancer sticks in bars. THAT is something that infringes on MY health and my appearance (stinky, smelling clothes.) People can do something about THAT habit and yet they refuse to -- just like some people choose to eat fries instead of salad.

My point is that many people have their vices, and unless you can claim to be 100% irritant free to the people around you, don't spew the venom.
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Sat Oct 04, 2003 4:55 am

767Lover,

There are also people out there who struggle with their weight and can't help it.

I know what it's like. I've struggled with my weight all my life, almost. But when I see huge fatsoes with flab dripping halfway down to the floor on either side of the chair, eating enough food for 3 or 4 people, he's not trying.

Smokers make a choice, and they must live with the consequences. Overeaters do the same. There is an additional factor here - the fact that space in an aircraft is limited and is a prime revenue driver, along with mass, and if someone comes who takes up 3 times the mass and space, he should pay more, because otherwise it is the company, who has done nothing wrong, which is penalized. And running an airline has never been a highly profitable one where margins allow you to give a lot of leeway who waste space due to their own decisions. Someone is a wheelchair also takes up excess space, but he didn't choose to be there, so I'd feel much better about the airlines giving him a break.

CHarles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:09 am

Charles,

Again, I know it is a difficult dilemma, and I agree that neither pax nor airlines should suffer because some people request triple the standard amount of mayonnaise on their sandwich (as the rather large woman in front of me at the sub shop did today.)

My comment was only about the utter hatred people seem to have for fat people, whereas smokers, drug addicts and alcoholics (who really do affect other people's lives) are treated with more compassion.
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Too Big For The Seat

Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:28 am

P.S.

I'm sure nobody would complain if the person they were "squeezed" next to was a famous linebacker!  Smile