767Lover
Topic Author
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:01 am

I know that we aviation buffs can easily figure out if a flight is code-shared and who is actually operating it. However, for the masses who don't get into the minutia of airline operations, do you think code-sharing is sort of a bait-and-switch?

For example, say a pax chooses an Air France flight from ATL to Paris because they have heard good things about AF and they want to try an international carrier.

Then they show up at the airport and discover it's actually a Delta ship, Delta crew, etc. Isn't this false advertising of sorts?

This happened to me...I chose a KLM flight ATL-AMS instead of Delta (and gave up the chance to rack up some miles) because I have always wanted to see what KLM's service was like & never had the opportunity before. Come to find out, it was a KLM jet but a Martinair crew. They were fine, but the whole point was that I had wanted to experience KLM, and nowhere on the booking information did it say it was operated by Martinair. It kind of made me mad in a way. Of course, it didn't ruin the trip, but somehow I think the codeshare thing can be very misleading.

Your thoughts?
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:11 am

no, particularly considering that airlines are required to disclose the operating carrier when a codeshare is sold
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
AMS
Posts: 1620
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 7:34 am

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:21 am

I can understand your frustration, however I knew that KL operated their flights between AMS-ATL-AMS with MP Crew, and this information also poped up in most CRS systems.

The person who books you on a flights is required by international law to disclose this kind of information, if some staff fails to do so, then the airline may be liable for misleading or not providing correct information.

Many airlines are using codeshare flights to offer customers a wider choice, however the actual operating carrier or crew should be always disclosed.

Regards,
AMS
 
767Lover
Topic Author
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:24 am

C-B and AMS,

Thanks. I booked the tix on Travelocity and believe me, I would have known if they posted this on the information on the site and on the tix (I study every word! :>)

This was 2 years ago so maybe they do it now.

Cheers.
 
carduelis
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:24 pm

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Sat Oct 04, 2003 7:39 am

As mentioned above the selling carrier is obliged to advise the passenger as to who operates the service.

Quite frankly, whilst it looks good for the pax, 'extra choice' etc, there is absolutely no benefit to the pax at all. Codeshares only benefit the carriers, by reduction of staff and through common host handling at airports, etc!

Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
justplanesmart
Posts: 676
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 3:25 pm

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Sat Oct 04, 2003 6:29 pm

767Lover:

Yes, it is.

"So many planes; so little time..."
 
thadocta
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 9:44 am

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Sun Oct 05, 2003 4:12 am

Codeshares DO assist the customer. I get QF status bonus miles on QF, AA and BA, on all other OneWorld carriers I only get base miles, and even then not in all Y classes. If it carries a QF flight number and I am booked under the QF code, I get the full perks of my status, something I don't get if booked under the code of the operating carrier.

Dave
 
ha763
Posts: 3170
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:36 am

767 Lover, I doubt your flight was not a codeshare flight. It was more likely a flight that used a wet-lease aircraft since the flight was on a KLM painted aircraft. A codeshare means that the flight has a flight number for all airlines selling seats on that flight and operated using crew and aircraft from the operating carrier. A wet-lease leases both aircraft and crew from the leasing company and the aircraft will be painted in the lessee's livery.

[Edited 2003-10-05 00:38:48]
 
767Lover
Topic Author
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:02 am

Thanks Ha763!

I have another question about codesharing: Can airlines "claim" their codeshare flights* in their total number of markets served? In other words, if an airline claims that they offer flights to "all 5 continents" but the ones to Africa are actually codeshared on another carrier, not actually flights they themselves operate, is this cool?

It seems like this could be cause for a lot of untrue claims (and multiple carriers claiming to be the largest).

*I'm speaking of the flights that they are not operating, not the ones they are operating and someone else is codesharing
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2561
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:09 am

A dingbat travel agent (only some, not all) can mess that up.

For example, I was sold a NW ticket GRR-CLE-AUS. I knew it was COEx the whole way, travel agent said it was NW. I knew better.

Most airline websites disclose actual operation - even for their own majority-stake regional carriers. DL's website puts an asterisk next to the flight number - even for song. Even though it is not really a different airline and not really a different type of aircraft, it gets such distinction.

I don't forsee codesharing slowing down any, what will it look like in a few years? I have seen flights in ATL carrying three flight #s - A DL, AF, and Ailitalia number. In a few years, will that same flight add NW, CO, and AS to its manifest of flight #s. Maybe more flight #s than pax  Smile
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:32 am

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:11 am

It can be a major pain in the butt. Passengers get confused all the time. What I hate the most is the express flight codeshares. Passengers buying tickets for example on America West out of TUS, think they are flying HP. When something goes wrong (and it does VERY often), HP takes the blame for it when they have nothing to do with the operation. Mesa/Freedom walk away with money and no worries of customer retaliation. A big pet peave for me!
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:13 am

767Lover
I agree with what you are saying, the airlines/travel agents are supposed to inform you when you book KL and it is actually MP crew on a KL flight, unless it happened very last minute?

Also I do believe airlines take liberties with advertising service to XYZ when in fact it is code share.

I once booked myself on KL from DTW to AMS to experience them and it was a NW flight, it was my fault for not noticing tho I stood firm and got it switched to a KL flight.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2561
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:14 am

Flyboyaz:

Pax do get confused. Imagine someone's grandmother trying to fly the first time on a codeshare ticket - in an airport like DFW - where NW and CO are in different terminals - can't check in @ the NW counter in Terminal E for the NW ticket on the CO aircraft - have to traverse to Terminal B (I think).

I hope she makes it (and figures it out).

B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:32 am

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:15 am

It's a big problem for us at work....luckily TUS isn't big and pax who accidently go to the NW line only have to walk about 100 feet to the CO line!
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
bobrayner
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:25 am

Normally I don't give a damn about codesharing, and don't really mind what logo is on the plane, as long as I get to my destination quickly and comfortably...

However, I've recently been trying to boycott BA (just a personal gripe). Was very disappointed when I checked in for a flight - on a route that I now have to use often - to find that it was a codeshare with BA, mostly on BA metal.
Cunning linguist
 
ha763
Posts: 3170
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Sun Oct 05, 2003 10:17 am

767lover,

Airlines do claim codeshare destinations as part of their markets served. However, they have to be clearly marked as codeshare destinations. Airlines got busted for not indicating codeshares flights and the operator because of complaints from pax. That's why they have to disclose this information.
 
FlyboyOz
Posts: 1744
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2000 10:05 am

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Sun Oct 05, 2003 1:54 pm

More than ten years ago, my friend's grandma went from SYD to London via Hong Kong. He told me that she flew by Qantas to London but I told him that Qantas didnt operate from HKG to London..it might be British Airways. He said no...he saw her plane ticket it said QF from SYD to LHR and also QF from HKG to LHR. She and he didnt know that QF has a codeshare.

Ahhh I remember when I was in New York, my mum wanted to call Canadian Airlines to confirm our plane tickets. My mum and her friends looked up at the New York Yellow Page. We could not find Canadian office and phone numbers in US. She said how come Canadian did manage to fly from JFK to YVR as she saw the airline code "CP" in our plane ticket. They were confused as they didnt know about codeshare. I told her that we had to fly by American Airlines. Then she called American Airlines. The lady in the AA customer serivce told us that they have our names for our flight to YVR. Ahh it was working!
The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
 
jhooper
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Sun Oct 05, 2003 3:49 pm

I guess it could be for someone who has no idea what codesharing is. I know someone who bought a flight on Delta and was really disappointed to see the EMB120 turboprop (ASA) sitting outside.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
ssides
Posts: 3248
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2001 12:57 am

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Sun Oct 05, 2003 11:56 pm

I remember seeing an interview with Bob Crandall (former AA CEO) a couple of years ago, after he retired, and he said he thought governments should ban all code-sharing. I tend to agree. I don't think it rises to the level of false advertising, but I do think overall it does disappoint and disadvantage many consumers. I love the sharing of FF miles, that's great, but that can happen without code-sharing.

Nevertheless, I can say that I have benefited from the practice. A few years ago I checked CO's fares from DCA-ABI; they were about $350. I got the exact same itinerary simply by booking through NW's web site for $189. Continental flights the whole way, with NW codeshares, saved more than $150.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:32 am

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 12:18 am

Airlines do disclose that information...but if anyone works in the airline field.... you know....you can stand there and beat them over the head with a club and say "You're flying on Continental Airlines!!!" and they would respond..."But my ticket says Northwest!" People just turn into morons when they hit the airport...must be the jet fumes. God help us!  Nuts
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
planeguy
Posts: 315
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: Code-sharing: Is It False Advertising?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 12:31 am

Codeshares used to give me so many headaches. When I worked res for NZ I'd get angry passengers calling me from the airport saying that we duped them. They'd see the NZ two-letter designator on their tickets and head from their inbound terminal to our counter at terminal two only to find out that they were supposed to board a UA flight (much to their dismay). Similarly, passengers picking up tickets in will call would often end up at the wrong ticket counter.

My biggest laughs would come from UA customer service agents who'd call from DIA or ORD and ask me if I'd allow them to book their passengers on "our" flights. My response would always be the same: "Be my guest, it's your plane!"

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos