ghost77
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Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sat Oct 04, 2003 8:02 am

———— Mexicana podría comprar aviones a Airbus en Diciembre————

FUENTE: Transporte Siglo XXI
Gabriel Rodríguez
MÉXICO, D.F.- El vicepresidente de la compañia francesa fabricante de aviones, Airbus, Rafael Alonso, informó que será en diciembre próximo cuando la aerolínea Mexicana defina su oferta financiera para la compra de 22 de 38 aviones que renovará el próximo año.

En entrevista con Transporte Siglo XXI, el directivo dijo que actualmente la aerolínea se encuentra en un proceso de ajuste de su oferta calculada en unos 800 millones de dólares para una renovación de flota que incluye aviones A-320, A-319, Fokker-100 y B757.

Alonso dijo que Latinoamérica representa entre 6 a 7% del volumen del negocio, del cual México representa 50%, por lo que considerá que México adquirirá una especial relevancia para la industria una vez que se vendan Mexicana y Aeromexico.

————————————————————

According to http://www.transportesxxi.com Today Mexicana announced that it might order 22 aircrafts to Airbus by the end of this year.

Mexicana's current fleet:
09 - Dc9s - (QA)
10 - F100s
12 - A319s + 3 more schedule.... and possible 5 more???
26 - A320s
09 - B757
Total of 66 aircrafts.

I know it sounds ridicolous to replace 38 from a total of 66, but what the hell! Hope they do as they say they will!

Facts
Mexicana looking for a fleet commonality.
Mexicana will phase out the 757 next year.

Rumours:
QA merging with MX soon.
Mexicana studying the A321 and A330 as possible replacements for the 757.

Possible new order:
06 - A320s
10 - A321s
06 - A330s
or
10 - A319s
06 - A320s
06 - A330s
or
10 - A319s
12 - A320s

Mexicana's fleet in a near future....
20 - A319s
32 - A320s
10 - A321s
06 - A330s
Total: 68 aircrafts.
or
30 - A319s
32 - A320s
06 - A330s
Total: 68 aircrafts.
or a boring
30 - A319s.
38 - A320s. (It wouldn't be a surprise, MX once was the second largest fleet in the world before United with 44 - B727s at the time)
Total: 68 aircrafts.

Definetly good news for Mexicana! Hope to see the A321 or A330 with their colours!! Hope they don't choose the A318! What are your opinions/predictions on this???

Ricardo M.  Smile

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
luisca
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sat Oct 04, 2003 8:28 am

make an Airbus for boeings swap... i wish they would do that

 Big grin
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
AM744
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sat Oct 04, 2003 8:40 am

If this is true, MX should give a step ahead and get some A330/A340s... Now, back to reality, they will be A318s if any, and continue to feed COPA on the MX), Mexico">MEX-PTY run..LOL

 
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yyz717
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sat Oct 04, 2003 8:59 am

If Boeing is serious about keeping the 757 line open, they should make an unbeatable offer to MX with an NG/752/753/763/7E7 split to roll over the entire fleet. It may be an uphill given the increasing AI focus at MX, but worth a try maybe.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Bobs89irocz
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sat Oct 04, 2003 9:05 am

What do i think of this order? They made a mistake...

Go Boeing...

My gf house sits right under the 4L approach to ORD and see the MX 757, A320's come it and it would be a shame to see them get ride of there 757's they look awsome.

It would be nice to see Boeing offer MX a great deal but i dont see that happing. MX does have some routes that there Boeing aircraft would work great on but oh well. Good luck to them and there Scarebuses.
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sat Oct 04, 2003 12:02 pm

Just got home and opened the newspaper (El Financiero) and I note that there's an article about this order.

It says that the 10 F100s will be replaced with 10 or 12 A318s. And they will be replacing 10 or 12 A320s with the same number of aircrafts.

And they will start delivering this new aircrafts by the end of 2005 or in the first months of 2005.

Also it says that Airbus is in talks with Aviacsa (to good to be true if they buy new buses), Líneas Aéreas Azteca (Looks it will be Boeing for them only) and AeroUnión (I think they won't replace their 3 A300Fs).

So, back to the topic, Mexicana's fleet will be:

12 - A318s
12 - A319s + 3 more scheduled to arrive in Dec, Jan and Mar.
26 - A320s
09 - B757s
Total: 62 aircrafts.

Too bad we will have to wait till 2004 to see an A321 or an A330 order.

Ricardo M.  Smile

Ps. AM744, LOL a good one.... keep feeding CM flights instead of giving trouble to them, TACA, LAB, etc etc etc!

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
motech722
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sat Oct 04, 2003 12:23 pm

What do I think of this order? They made a great choice...

The 757 is a nice aircraft, but doesn't seem to fit into the airline while the A320 series is a great idea looking at their fleet, it fits in nicely. This kind of swap is nothing new, many airlines are doing this, such as Frontier, America West, and US Airways here in the states. Going to one type of fleet is a good idea.

Nothing against Boeing, but the new kid in town continues to gain respect from airlines. Go Airbus...
 
fly727
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sat Oct 04, 2003 1:38 pm

I think it is a smart move. Mexicana once had a bit of a problem (and might still have it), operating aircrafts from several manufacturers. I remember a few years ago, they had (including their Regional QA) airplanes from:

Airbus (A320)
Boeing (B727, B757)
Fokker (F27, F100)
Douglas (DC-9)
Britten Norman (BNIII)
Cessna (C-208)
BAe (J-32).

Getting Airbus commonality was something that eventually was gonna happen. Too bad they will get rid of the 757. The natural replacement for this would be the A321 but I have no idea how good it will perform out of hot and high Mexico City Intl bound for their medium to long haul destinations such as Argentina and Canada.

The A330 seems to be kind of large for Mexicana needs though, at least for the routes they are currently flying (with the exception of Buenos Aires). If they bring it, hopefully that would bring closer their long desired wish to fly to LHR and FRA (a Star Alliance hub).

This whole topic just made me realize the unfilled gap Airbus have between the narrow bodied A321 and the A330; precisely the kind of aircraft that would fit perfectly MX's needs instead of Boeing's 757 or 767-200.

Saludos
RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
Mexicana757
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sat Oct 04, 2003 1:50 pm

OOh good news *claps* I think that MX should replace those 757s with A321s and A330s. They should take the advantage and buy the A330-200s at least. Then they can open up new routes into Europe, like LHR and FRA! The F-100s should be replaced with the A319 instead of the A318, just my opinion. If they are looking for an aircraft to replace the F-100s, why not buy the Embraer 190/195.  Big thumbs up But I know MX is going with commonality and trying to cut cost. I hope everything works out for them.

I find it interesting that Airbus is in talks with Aviacsa, IMO Aviacsa should go out and buy some 737-300/400/500s since there seem to be many out in the desert. Im sure they can get some of US 737-300/400s cheap. From what I see, Azteca will stick with Boeing.



 
osteogenesis
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sat Oct 04, 2003 3:58 pm

Congratulation Mexicana and Airbus. I am happy to see Airlines buying the A318.

To see A330 in Mexicana colours would be great, I will keep my finger crossed!

Mucha suerte Mexicana!
 
rojo
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sat Oct 04, 2003 8:55 pm

The info I had was that MX was close to a deal with Airbus for 12 A318's... but it will be decided in the next few months. They were talking to GECAS and other leasing companies before closing the deal. It is about time they get rid of the F100's and all the spares which are giving a headache to Mexicana Maintenance Area.
 
LeoDF
Posts: 349
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sun Oct 05, 2003 12:48 am

Hey everyone!!

This goes for Rojo: damn you Airbus!!!

If we speak of economics, it looks like Mexicana is getting way ahead of Aeromexico in orders and of course fleet renewal.

It's great because it will probably force other airlines to renew their fleet on a medium basis! But why Airbus!! WHY???

Hope this order turns out well though, for Mexicana IS Mexicana!!

Cheers!

A. De Leo!
Lloyd Aereo Boliviano
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sun Oct 05, 2003 1:41 am

If we speak of economics, it looks like Mexicana is getting way ahead of Aeromexico in orders and of course fleet renewal

Mexicana is WAY WAY WAY WAY ahead of AeroMexico. With this new order, Mexicana will enter to it's second renewal phase, while AM's has not even started! Just start raiding some Dc9s to MD87s and B737s finally are getting here on the October 16th!.....

But why Airbus!! WHY???

I ASK MYSELF THE SAME THING!

I think it's a tough decision that MX will have to take at the end of 2004 with the 757 replacement.

I think MX only has two chances..
1. Going A318, 319, 320, 757.... and if ever... 767/777.,
2. A318, 319, 320, 321 (with a lot of restrictions out of MX), Mexico">MEX), 330/340.
But I think number two it's going to be the option. It would definetly be a surprise to see MX in talks with Boeing next year.

Anyway, ARRIBA MEXICANA!!!!!



Ricardo M.  Smile

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
rojo
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sun Oct 05, 2003 2:00 am

But why Airbus!! WHY???
Thank God competition exists... if not, many of you will be happy spotting MX B727 fleet still flying the mexican skies!!!

This goes for Rojo: damn you Airbus!!!
Alex de Leo: Aviacsa and AeroMexico are in talks with Airbus, 6A wants the A320 family to replace B737's and AM the A330 to replace B767's... The mexican skies will be filled up with Airbus machines. Naa, just kidding!! but it will be amazing!!

You know that I don't care if it is Airbus or Boeing, as long as airlines in Mexico have new, clean and efficient airplanes... not Latas like N2.

By the way, I was told that MX wants to get rid of the A320's leased by Mexibus (10 - 12). They couldn't close a deal with Mexibus to lower the payments of these airplanes which are at the same monthly rates as newer A320's and they are 12 to 14 year old planes.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sun Oct 05, 2003 2:58 am

and AM the A330 to replace B767's

At one point, AM was talking to AF about some of its older 772ERs... what became of that?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
LeoDF
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 1999 11:44 am

RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:31 am

Hey you all!

Rojo: you are right! As long as there are new planes in Mexican skies no problem!! Anyway as a business administrator competition is the best thing ever!! Boeing has now to organize itself perfectly well to face Airbus! Airbus is winning fair and square! That's what makes me angry!!

Oh well, the strongest one will survive!!!

Good luck Boeing!

A. De Leo
Lloyd Aereo Boliviano
 
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mx330
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sun Oct 05, 2003 1:45 pm

They should stay with those 757's
A321 is N O T an option, A330 is...

Mx330
All Canon! EOS 5D mk III, 8mm, 17-40, 24-105, 70-200 f2.8, 100-400L
 
JAVOMD88
Posts: 285
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sun Oct 05, 2003 2:10 pm

KEEP DREAMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mexicana has told these type of story tails lots of times, why dont they think about the pilots they just put to the street instead of dreaming.

My best friend was a F.O. on the A320 and he told me he never had been so embarrased in his life after being layed off from MX. He told me they told the going away pilots to meet on an empty floor of the MX tower(which isnt even theirs anymore) and with plastic tables they gave them there check and sign her and goodbye. They felt they left the company they served for 7 years through the small door of the company. So there are severe issues they need to fix before changing there Camiones del aire(airbus) . Also told to us by the head of office at our union, MX has more serious financial problems than ever before, and are considering to fire another 57 pilots. DOES THAT RING A BELL!

Come on people, how in the world can u say MX is way way way way way way,,,,,,,,,,,from AM, come on, i want to laugh my head off!

If only you worked around here you could have a much more clearer picture of things, and not just say what u think is going on!

Thanks
JAVO
aeromexico.....the only true carrier of mexico
 
fly727
Posts: 1752
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:27 am

RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sun Oct 05, 2003 4:34 pm

"Mexicana is WAY WAY WAY WAY ahead of AeroMexico. With this new order, Mexicana will enter to it's second renewal phase, while AM's has not even started!"

Indeed MX might be on its second phase of fleet renewal, but that was because it was an urgent issue. Don't get me wrong, the 727's are (were) fine aircraft and so the F100 but they were killing the company with its excessive maintenance and operational costs. Single-aisle airbuses seem to be the solution and happily they fit MX needs as if they were custom-made for them "como anillo al dedo, pues". The best luck for them though.

I, like Javo, have many friends that were furloughed by Mexicana. More than 120 pilots in a mere six months period. More than what the industry can afford to have in excess. Add the +40 pilots from A.Internacionales, add the 44 pilots (and maybe 58 let goes of Allegro). I don't think this is exactly the best time to dream about A330's and stuff (as much as I would like to see them coming). Maybe I'm veering off course here, but I find insulting (for those furloughed and for us, jet qualified pilots flying any kind of trash in "provincia") that they are considering a "fleet expansion". Almost just as insulting as our bright head of nation talking about the creation of thousands of jobs (and I am not sure but I think he happened to mention that in the last Pilot's Union Assembly). Gawd !!!!

I, for the sake of the Aviation just hope that the reality turns out to be as bright and as hopeful as some of the opinions written here.

The bitter, Ramon  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
osteogenesis
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sun Oct 05, 2003 5:08 pm

LeoDF

But why Airbus!! WHY???

I am also a Mexican and believe me I am happy Mexicana is buying form Europe and not from the gringos. And with all respect I have never understand why so many fellow Mexicans are so in love with all the things made north of the rio bravo.

I always laugh when I see the Mexicans with their Atlanta Braves, Dodgers and Raiders T Shirts. I just don’t get it. I also ask my self. Why? Why? Why?

Get a t-shirts from the chivas and stop crawling into Americans a…




 
sr117
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sun Oct 05, 2003 5:40 pm

Well if we talk about shady labor practices, AeroMexico ain't that hot either... they utilize ILLEGAL contracts to devoid their ground workers of legal work benefits, I know, I was one of them, you never know if you'll have a job next month or not, and it's like that for many many of AMXs ground workers all over the country. They just give you your check and buh bye. So unfortunatley it's not just people in the air that are having a rough time

Still, I guess cuts are necesary to keep the companies afloat, I dunno really, one understands the economic point of view, but when it's your turn to get snubbed, it's much harder to understand.

In any case, I guess an order is inevitable, MX needs to get rid of those F100s ! although maybe A318s are a bit too heavy.. maybe RJs would fit better perhaps? I doubt it though : ) Let's wait and see, we all know how long the AMX decision for 737s took !

 
rojo
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sun Oct 05, 2003 6:07 pm

Javomd88:

I hate that pilots like you just think about other pilots that were fired and don't realize that also flight attendants, CSR's, management people and many more were fired from Mexicana and AeroMexico in order to keep the jobs of the rest and don't go bankrupt. Thank God that you are part of a Union that protects you very good (ASPA), because if not, most of the pilots will be FIRED. They are draining MX and AM a lot of money with its lousy contracts that come from the past and the STUPID BONUS you got last week, and don't tell me I don't know nothing because I don't work around there... my best friend, with whom I went to college is an senior executive of Club Premier INSIDE AeroMexico and his father is part of CINTRA'S executive committee, so believe me, he knows a lot more than you. And yes, Mexicana has lots of financial problems, but they need to get 12 new Airbuses in order to LOWER payments of some of the A320's they have in their fleet, because they are paying high monthly rates thanks to a contract signed in 1990 with Mexibus. They finally realized that they can get newer airbuses at the same or even at lower monthly rates because there are lots of aircraft offered in the market. Mexicana will keep firing pilots because they just retired a 3 pilot crew aircraft and replace it with a 2 pilot crew aircraft, that seems logical. I don't like people to be fired, but that is the reality of our country, so if you want to blame someone, blame the government... my brother was just fired from a bank in Mexico and he is not complaining, he know how the country is and he is trying to find a new job, but blame the company for firing him, please... the company has to survive...

And if you think Mexicana is telling story tails about their fleet renewal, why do they have 12 new A319 and AM doesn't even have their first B73G????

Rojo
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sun Oct 05, 2003 11:25 pm

Javomd88,

This has become like a little fight. We are Mexicans, mostly, we all leave in Mexico and we love our aviation. It's obvious you are going to defend AM!!! That's logical it's your company, you fly for them, and you love the shirt a lot!

It is not really necessary to be around there, I have lot's of family/friends who are Pilots (They felt they left the company they served for 7 years don't exagerate, if that was the case, an uncle (flying 320 for 5 years) and two friends that were flying the 320 (one with 5 years and the other with 6 years) they wouldn't be around in MX, and all of them stayed....), FA's and Maintenance (just like SR117 said, AM is also not playing nicely with their maintenance employees with short 3 months contracts with ORION and other copanies and paying less money than AM employees and both work in the aircrafts and do the same hard work...) from MX and AM. I read the newspapers and see all the cuts! All the problems both airlines are facing. And if you want to, you can also add AeroCalifornia and Allegro with their financial problems.

Finally, I never made a ridicolous statement, in terms of fleet MX it's WAY ahead of AM. While MX right know it's focusing in a second renewal, today it's Oct 5th and finally yesterday they just received their first 737.

Ricardo M.  Smile

Ps. AMX B737 was Del. yesterday, will fly BFI-LAS-BOS-LAX-TIJ-BFI-Mex. On October 8th the aircraft will land in TIJ.... by the 16th will be touching at Mex.

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
Airbus-Insider
Posts: 30
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Sun Oct 05, 2003 11:43 pm

Hello everyone,
great news.
Just wanted to say something not of particular importance but yet of interest to some of us:

It's aircraft not aircrafts, there is no S at the end.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=aircraft
air·craft = Pronunciation Key (ârkrft)
n. pl. aircraft

Kind regards
Ronaldo
Airbus and Fokker Flyer
 
fly727
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Mon Oct 06, 2003 3:15 am

Ghost77: I'll be in LAS from Oct. 20-27 and in LAX from Oct. 29-31. Any chance I'll see an AM 737NG?
AeroMexico rules.

RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Mon Oct 06, 2003 9:43 am

Fly727,

I guess you'll have to wait and see it in CUN or any other mexican airport.

Ricardo M.  Smile

Ps. Airbus-Insider - Thank You very much for the correction!

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
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mx330
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Mon Oct 06, 2003 12:08 pm

Osteogenosis:
I don't know what is your problem with the United States, and I just want to remember you that every thing you and this country have is because they make it possible and because they keep this country alive supporting our economy. Also, I don't know what the Atlanta Braves and the Oakland Raiders have to do in an aviation forum....
Mexicana decided on Airbus because right know its the best option for them. AM Has picked Boeing and they will keep on them its all competence.

JAVO
I Don't work In AM neither in MXA but put your feet on the ground AM is not far away form MX. Having a new plane on your fleet (this week is the first time in over years) shouldn't make you think you are better than an airline who has received over 20 brand new planes in the past years....
Think about it and then talk

Mx330

[Edited 2003-10-06 05:09:55]
All Canon! EOS 5D mk III, 8mm, 17-40, 24-105, 70-200 f2.8, 100-400L
 
osteogenesis
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:34 pm

Mx330,

I don't know what is your problem with the United States, and I just want to remember you that every thing you and this country have is because they make it possible and because they keep this country alive supporting our economy.

Do you fell ok Mx330? Everything I have is because I have worked very hard for it.

I have no problem with the USA. I just don't understand Mexicans like you who worship them.
 
AM744
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:59 am

Mx330

I don't know what is your problem with the United States, and I just want to remember you that every thing you and this country have is because they make it possible and because they keep this country alive supporting our economy.

Man, you gotta be joking. I second Osteogenesis points. Do a search for the "1920s US-Mexico Treaty" or something thread and look how they have given us "everything we have"... LOL

Read some history...

No problem with the US, they play their world power role, and we would do that kind of stuff if we could...
 
LeoDF
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 1999 11:44 am

RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:27 am

Osteogenesis and AM744:

You gotta be joking me! If you do hate the US or wonder why Mexicans worship them a lot, take a look around, tell me what items you have from Mexico, and which ones are from the US.

The language alone you are using in this forum! HAHA got ya!

Para el caso hablamos español y sin pedos!!!

Pero no es el punto, finalmente MX330 solo expuso su punto de vista, sin atacar... Es lo malo de internet, en vdd puedes malinterpretar el tono de las cosas.

Let's not make of this forum a place to fight, we should enjoy it! We have written or read great news here. It's our place to speak and to say what's on our mind regarding aviation!

Saludos a todos!!

A. De Leo W.
Lloyd Aereo Boliviano
 
osteogenesis
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 9:44 pm

RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:32 am

LeoDF,

I wont answer your post in detail (me da hueva).

But let me tell you that the language we are using comes from the United Kingdom not from the US.

Saludos a todos.
 
LeoDF
Posts: 349
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:34 am

Think about it!

You speak BRITISH ENGLISH OR AMERICAN ENGLISH

Thank you!
Lloyd Aereo Boliviano
 
LatinPlane
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:44 am

Osteogenesis

"I have no problem with the USA. I just don't understand Mexicans like you who worship them."

For the record Mexicans don't worship anybody except for the Virgin of Guadalupe and the Pope!



Speaking of 737NGs. I still don't really know exactly why AM officially ordered the 737s. Looking at the picture, (from an outside perspective) they just don't seem to fit in. (to me, that is!)

The 737s were originally ordered to replace their DC-9s. Later AM said that the 737s were not ordered as replacements for their DC-9s, but as replacements for the older MD-80s that were aquired brand new in the early 80s and are now 22 years old. The DC-9s would instead be replaced by secondhand MD-87s. So in the end, their fleet looks like this:

MD-87
MD-80
B737-700
B757-200
B-767-200/300


In my personal opinion, the B737s could be used to replace not only the MD-80s but 757s as a whole. (as much as I like them) The 737s can easily take over all the routes the 757s currently fly, and if need be add service by adding extra frequencies. On the other hand, they certainly need to add capacity on their European market and I really don't see them doing it unless they add 777 size aircraft in order to capture the volume that it requires to make these destinations profitable (no doubt they already are). I'm no insider, and I'm sure they know what they're doing, but I think what's going on here is mixture of a bad recession and politics that are not working for the benefit of the mexican airlines.

 Smile LatinPlane
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
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mx330
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:49 am

Osteogenosis:
Yes I do feel OK, how about you? I do worship them because they have won the right to. If instead of having to buy aircraft to them (or to Europeans) we could buy our own, then I would think about it. But your indifference to answer posts reminds me that "El que calla otorga..."

English comes form the UK agree... Yes probably UK dominated in 1920 as Mr historic man AM744 knows, but let me remind you both that its the 2000's and things have changed. And I agree wit you 744 I wish we could play the power role and produce our own aircrafts.

Mx330
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CPH-R
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:33 am

About the 757's - what routes are they used for? I mean, the A321 range is shorter than the 757's, but the capacity is roughly the same. The A330 matches (/kills) when it comes to range, but it also has a much greater capacity.
 
osteogenesis
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:55 am

Who is talking about dominance? I was just wondering why you guys don’t like the fact that Mexicana is buying a European product.

Mx330,

I do worship them because they have won the right to.

You make me feel sick. I admire single humans for achieving great things. Stop behaving like a conquered Indio, who is shocked because the one he worshiped (Moctezuma) lost the battle.


[Edited 2003-10-06 21:57:04]
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Tue Oct 07, 2003 5:48 am

CPH-R,

MEXICANA mainly uses the B757 for long routes AND high traffic demand.

In the country, mainly:
MEX-TIJ
MEX-GDL-TIJ
MEX-GDL
MEX-MXL
MEX-MTY
MEX-CUN
MLM-TIJ
ZAC-TIJ

US
MEX-LAX
MEX-GDL-LAX
MEX-GDL-SFO
MEX-ORD
MLM-ORD
ZAC-ORD

Canada
MEX-YVR
MEX-YUL
MEX-YYZ
MEX-MTY-YVR (Starting next DEC, 22nd)
MEX-MTY-YUL

Ricardo M.  Smile

PS. Osteogenesis:

I was just wondering why you guys don’t like the fact that Mexicana is buying a European product.

Because I love the way Boeing/Douglas/Embraer aircraft look and more! HATE AIRBUS and CANADAIR/DHC! And my reasons got nothing to do if they are an American or a European product....

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:55 am

Latinplane,

Officially, AM never said that 737 was replacing MD80s, I think that was only me LOL. I said it, because a source of mine in AM maintenance told me that. Also I think AM would look very stupid saying they would replace their old 1978/80 Dc9 fleet to newer 1990/2s MD87s.

In the short term it doesn't make sense but in the long term 737 will become the MD80 replacement and maybe also the 757, why not....

According to some rumours, after all 737-700s are received, next order will be 737-800s for the replacement of the MD83s and some MD88s.

So probably by 2006 AM will have a fleet of
20 - MD87s
15 - 737s
15 - 738s
06 - MD88s.
10 - B752s
6/8 - B767s
Total +-72.
---------
Current fleet:
07 - DC9s
16 - MD87s + 1 to enter the fleet soon...
11 - MD82s
08 - MD83s
10 - MD88s
08 - B757s
05 - B767s.
Total +-73

Ricardo M.  Smile

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
LatinPlane
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:55 am

Osteogenesis  Smile

You don't need to call him that. It is totally uncalled for you name him in such way. It would be like someone calling you a Nazi bastard just because you are German. He has nothing to do with the conquest and if you are Mexican I sugguest for you to stop using the words "indio" or "malinche" in any way, because they are used to refer to people as a lower mentality race, and that is simply not true and it shouldn't be tolerated. His point of view is valid and does not imply he's a sell-out. The words can be easily turned back against you without difficulty.  Smile

MX330  Smile

One thing is to admire, another is to worship. I don't think you mean worship.


AM744  Smile


I do not second your opinion on the 1920 U.S./Mexico treaty. Like I told you the other day, Mexico wouldn't have been able to develop an aerospace industry because it simply wouldn't have been able to invest the enourmous amount of resources into the scientific research that were required in order to develop the technology that what we have today. Lots of the money that was invested into research for Aviation was done thru military expansion that ultimately found its way into civilian use (I respect you, and your mother for the aircraft technician that she is, but history is history because you cannot go back to change it.) Mexico is not a nation that seeks wars, it does not need to invest huge amounts of resources into a military industrial complex that benefits technological research.

Mexico of the 1920s was just trying to get itself established after its infrastructure was lost due to the revolution. As a matter of fact, although the revolution is glorified for getting rid of the great injustices that prevailed in the country at the time, what really ended up happening was what has recently occured in certain African nations like Zimbabwe where the land owners, bankers, and merchants have been thrown out of the country by populist revelions but the economy is completely devastated as a consequence and then no one knows how to properly run the show. I don't think that the Mexico of the 1920s was ready to start developing a NASA of its own.

Yes, although Brazil has a successful aircraft company called Embraer, you're fooled to think it was a sweet story. Brazil heavily invested in Embraer to make it what it is, and when I say heavily, I am also infering to the fact that it literaly took food away from childrens mouths to do so. Brazil invested many resources that theoretically could have otherwise been used to benefit society and invested them into an aircraft manufacturing company instead. Whether it was worth it or not that's for Brazilians to decide, they are the only ones to judge the issue for that matter. But let me tell you this, Brazil up until the late 1960 didn't have an aerospace industry, actually it was Argentina that had a well established one. However, for some reason, they let it go; they just decided that it was wasn't as important and the government stopped investing in it. Trust me, they kick themselves in the behind when they looked at how much Brazil invested in theirs to make it what it is today while they already had the foundation to do it for next to nothing, but threw the opportunity away.

So the point is that although the U.S. did not play fair with treaty, but realistically to say that Mexico would have overachieved in such matters... well Mexico hasn't really proved itself in other aspects, so it doesn't really convince me that it would have done so with this one either.

De todos modos que viva Mexico, si señor...

 Smile LatinPlane

Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
pzurita1
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:23 am

Shoudn't it read "¡Qué viva México, 'iñor!" ?

PZ
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
LatinPlane
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:33 am

Pzurita1

LOL. No you say it like a mariachi would say it. Con la "S"  Big grin

Si Señor!

 SmileLatinPlane



Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
fly727
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Tue Oct 07, 2003 8:28 am

Don't want to reply every single thing each of us said about the US and Europe. It is a matter of "geopolitics" that we can't change right away. (and yes, the word exists).
* * * * *
It's like when you go buy a car. Some of us like Volkswagen others Nissan. Get over it.
* * * * *
You all guys need to take it easy and realize that we definitely need to talk about this under the effects of cervezas.  Smile
* * * * *
By the way, I really don't like Volkswagen. Audi rocks.

RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
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mx330
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Tue Oct 07, 2003 10:09 am

Osteogenosis.
Creo que lo dicho por LatinPlane es suficiente para callarte la boca. Asi es que si quieres evitar el buscarte porblemas ya mejor mantente al margen. En este foro nadie insulta a nadie ni se mete con la nacionalidad, porque mira que tu bien tienes cola que pisar; y no creo que sea el lugar para buscar problemas, que si es lo que quieres, Bienvenido, dime cuando y donde y con mucho gusto los buscamos.

LatinPlane:
Probably you are right, I don't refer to the term worship as to idolatrate and mainly yes as admire them because FOR Mr. OSTEOGENOSIS INFORMATION I'M AMERICAN (and Mexican also).


Mx330
VIVA MEXICO!! and LONG LIVE AMERICA!!
All Canon! EOS 5D mk III, 8mm, 17-40, 24-105, 70-200 f2.8, 100-400L
 
osteogenesis
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Tue Oct 07, 2003 10:40 am

Mx330,

Asi es que si quieres evitar el buscarte porblemas ya mejor mantente al margen.

Yo no tengo ningun problema.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

En este foro nadie insulta a nadie ni se mete con la nacionalidad, porque mira que tu bien tienes cola que pisar

 Confused

y no creo que sea el lugar para buscar problemas, que si es lo que quieres, Bienvenido, dime cuando y donde y con mucho gusto los buscamos

 Yawn

 
AM744
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:53 pm

Latinplane:
You make some good points. But, the US wouldn't have pushed for such an agreement for nothing. Sure, the incipient industry could've collapsed by itself, but at least it was worth a try.

well Mexico hasn't really proved itself in other aspects
Yep, it's hard to fight five long centuries of history, but we're working on it  Wink/being sarcastic
 
fly727
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:19 pm

AM744 that was just well freaking said. Just give us some time, we will prove wrong whoever thinks we can not.

RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:51 pm

AM744, well said! Lots of years fighting... only 180 years of Independence and 80 from our Revolution which is nothing! Just give us some time, and I think Mexico will prove a lot.

Ricardo M.  Smile

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
LatinPlane
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:12 am

AM744

Muy bien dicho. And I do second with you on that one.  Smile


Ghost77

"Officially, AM never said that 737 was replacing MD80s, I think that was only me LOL."

Carajo...  Smile I don't know, but I distinctly remember looking at the press releases stating that they were ment to replace the DC-9s. I know that the very first days we got some official distorted releases from Boeing, Originally it was said that they would be 737-600s instead of the 737-700s, to replace the DC-9s, remember?

In any case, I guess its a good choice to get more MD-87s to just replace the DC-9s. I don't know if it was the right time to get new 737s. The MD-80s are great work horses that could last another 10 years easily, and the fact that they're very cheap right now is a great thing. The area that needed to be looked at more closely is the long haul fleet I think.

 Smile LatinPlane

Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
rojo
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:57 am

AM and the Long haul Fleet!!!

I just flew the TOdo Jodido, uuuppps, I mean XA-TOJ, AM's B767-200 to Madrid and guess what??? Yes, the flight was packed. No seats empty and when I arrived at AM's ticket counter in Mexico City, I was offered a roundtrip domestic ticket on AM which of course I rejected. I told them that if they offer me money, I will stay, but they manage to find a family that was sent on the next flight that day (I was on AM001 MEX-MAD which left at 5:50pm and next flight was AM003 at 9:00pm). Thank god I didn't accept the roundtrip ticket, because I had an Easy Jet flight to catch. While waiting for the Easy Jet counter to be opened I was looking at AeroMexico's check in counter (next to Easy Jet) and saw that flight AM004 MAD-MEX was delayed two hours. After I got my boarding pass, I went to the AM counter and started chatting with an AM staff. He was telling me that most of the times this flight is delayed because of the lack of equipment AM has to replace an aircraft that is delayed or broken and they even had to cancel one flight not long ago because the airplane had an oil leak an was diverted to JFK (airplane never got to MAD). Then I realized that AM just increased from 8 to 9 frequencies the MAD run, which makes it very difficult for the 5 B767's to have a good on-time performance if they are flying more hours every day. It is amazing that AM has full flights each day to MAD, CDG and SCL and they don't get another B767 to compensate the runs and to increase frequencies. If it was because of money I will not complain, but I don't think they are not able to get a second hand B767's, because they are getting new B73G's. Even the guy next to me on the flight, who was from Valencia, told me that AM is always full and he holds a Y class ticket on IB and AM in case needs to travel with one day notice or less; and he comes to Mexico 5 or 6 times a year.

Hope this time they get the 6th B767 (doesn't matter if it is 200 or 300) but they could benefit of the strong performance of the European routes.

Rojo
 
cx340
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RE: Mexicana Might Order 22 Aircrafts To Airbus!

Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:22 am

Rojo,

"Hope this time they get the 6th B767 (doesn't matter if it is 200 or 300) but they could benefit of the strong performance of the European routes."

mmmmmm. . don't you mean the first 777 . . . oh, sorry, I forgot, we are talking about a Mexican airline here and its executives. . .I got carried away there for a second. . .I thought that with the current price and availability of leases on aircraft, with the urgent need to offer more seats on long haul routes and with one of your alliance partners begging you to take a beautiful and new aircraft that would most likely suit your needs and at a (probably) very reasonable cost, what you do is YOU GET THE DAMN PLANE AND YOU START FLYING!!!

Back to reality. . .I don't even think they will get an additional 767. . .just the plain bureaucracy involved to take such a decision at AM must be amazing, I'm sure.