IntheKnow
Posts: 321
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 7:32 pm

Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:37 am

According to "Galley FM"

We are ordering them soon

we are flying to Seoul, Hyderrabad, Kano, Osaka soon as we can

we are going back to ORD and YYZ asap

and it looks like we might start flying to a whole new continent....no not OZ but South America! Gotta love that Rio!!!
 
Bobs89irocz
Posts: 599
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:41 am

Sorry for being ignorant but i had a brain fart. What airline is VS?

What is "gally Fm"
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:45 am

If you believe for one second that VS really buys-into that "4engines4longhaul" horsecrap that Airbus had it spewing during the A346 intro, then I have a bridge to sell you  Big grin

Whether VS can get the 777 to fit within its model and cost structure, when A340NGs are already there... is another story. It's true however that few longhaul airlines have had problems fitting into the 777s, and VS is certainly no TG  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
IntheKnow
Posts: 321
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:45 am

Hi,

VS = Virgin Atlantic

Galley FM = gossip on flights about whoever and whatever in the company!!

cheers
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:45 am

Bobs,
VS is Virgin Atlantic
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
GoAibusGo
Posts: 237
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:50 am

Bobs89irocz

VS is Virgin Atlantic

"gally fm" dunno.


ps: You have a '89 Camaro IROC-Z (International Race Of Champions)
 
RickB
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:53 am

Richard Branson has used the slogan of '4 engines 4 longhaul' for many years as the longstay of his attacks on BA. Therefore buying twin engined aircraft at this time will be a huge U turn for him and his airline. A man of integrity, commitment to his ideals etc. would never do that.

So consider that deal for the 777's signed !!!  Wink/being sarcastic

RickB

 
Bobs89irocz
Posts: 599
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:56 am

I thought it was Virgin but i couldnt believe that they would buy some 777s when they have a very well set up international fleet with the Airbus and 747's. Dont get me wrong i think it would be awsome for VS to get the 777's but doesnt seem like something they would do to me. I hope my feeling is wrong.

GoAirbusGo- Even though i can tell by your name we wouldnt get along very well with airplanes (lol jk, but im a big boeing fan) Yes i do have 2 iroc-z's. One is a race car (drag racing) another is a street car with lots of goodys on it too. I use to be a big camaro guy but i have recently got big into motocycles and have been having the time of my life ridding them.
 
Jkw777
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:56 am

VS With 777's Embarrassment! I am sure that they bought/had borrowed a few 767's (long time ago) as well, that never really caught on! (Please correct me with the correct info)

Imagine how one of those babies would look in that VS Colour Scheme!?! Big grin  Smile
jkw6210@btopenworld.com or +447751242989
 
steve6666
Posts: 449
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:58 am

If Virgin fly to South America it will be to Sao Paulo not Rio - BA's 4 weekly flights from Rio fill about half the economy section and 2 people elsewhere in the plane. Business demand for Rio is miniscule compared to Sao Paulo.
A306, A318, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A343, A346, A388, B722, B732, B733, B734, B735, B73G, B738, B742, B744, B752, B753, B762, B763, B764, B772, B773, B77W, B787-8, BAe-146, Cessna Something, DC-10, E175, E195, ERJ145, MD-11, MD-80, PA Something
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 6:02 am

I am sure that they bought/had borrowed a few 767's (long time ago) as well, that never really caught on!

They wetleased a 763ER from Martinair for intra-Europe as well as Orlando/Newark service.


Richard Branson has used the slogan of '4 engines 4 longhaul' for many years as the longstay of his attacks on BA

Actually, the slogan was essentially Airbus'. It was adopted by Branson at Farnborough in July of 2002.

His notable slogan from 1997 onward was "No way AA/BA"
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
GoAibusGo
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 6:10 am

Bob89irocz :

You were right on my name, I am more a Airbus guy.

I like dragracing too. But this is a aviation site, so I won't get into details.

Still nice see some car related names etc. on this site


Have a nice one, and go easy with those V8s <:->
 
ILoveORD
Posts: 193
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 6:10 am

"we are going back to ORD and YYZ asap"

Great news!! I've missed those VS 747s and A340s these past few years at ORD; can't wait to see them again!! A few questions though: anyone how soon VS will return to ORD and which aircraft will likely operate the route: I'm guessing a combination of 744 and A340?


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mopac
Posts: 196
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 6:22 am

That's funny because just yesterday I was reading the Oct 6 issue of Fortune and they profiled Branson.

In the article they were listing his daily routine and mentioned phone calls to Phil Condit of Boeing "to see if he can talk him down on the price of his 747s for Virgin Atlantic". I thought WTF?... Branson wouldn't be buying new 74s at this time, and dismissed it as trying to talk down the terms of the current aircraft, re-finance or something. Or maybe even trying to haggle Boeing down on a new widebody order so he could take that offer to Airbus and beat them over the head with it. But now that you mention the 777 maybe that's what Branson was talking to Condit about and the reporter just didn't have the sense to note the difference. Hmmm.


The reporter for this article was following Branson during the summer sometime while he was on Necker, and that's when those conversations would have taken place.
 
tekelberry
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 6:30 am

I'm guessing a combination of 744 and A340?

They're not going to take a dropped route and just start flying 744s there again. If they start flying to ORD again, it'll probably be their smallest A340.
 
RickB
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 6:51 am

Actually - now is a typical time for Virgin to order new aircraft. The market is depressed and the 744 isn't exactly selling like hotcakes. It would be a very good time for Branson to order new 744's - he would get them at a great price, they wouldn't be in service for a couple of years (so the market should of picked up). This is pretty much what he did when first ordered 744's and A343's - he wanted (according to his book Virginity) to just get PTV's added to his fleet of 742's - but couldn't get the financing. He contacted both Airbus and Boeing and asked them about supplying 744's and A343's with PTV's and he got them to supply both all with PTV's and supply the financing. Branson was happy because it was around the time of the first Gulf war and no one was buying aircraft - so he got a good deal and he got the PTV's he wanted..and the finance !!

Plus new 744's wouldn't hurt his image like the 777 would. He's also not solely an Airbus fan !!

RickB
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:15 am

RickB,
past press releases (that maybe 0.001% of the population is actually going to remember) aside....

...how exactly would operating a member of what's currently the longest ranged and most technologically-advanced aircraft family in commercial service, going to 'hurt' Branson's image??
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
RickB
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:23 am

Concordeboy,

Nothing to do with the technical specs of the 777 - its a superlative aircraft - you wont have any argument with me on that one (no looker mind !!).

Branson is embroiled on a long term and often bitter dispute with BA - originally it was no way AA/BA, then a serious advertising campaign stating '4 engines 4 long haul' followed by the Concorde debacle.

The 4 engines 4 longhaul slogan was an attack on BA's extensive use of the 777 (obviously a twin). He played it in a way that implied that 4 engines where safer than a twin for longhaul (transoceanic) journeys. If all of a sudden he now buys a twin - not only is he joining BA - but its like admitting he was wrong all along.

We all know the 4 engines bit is pure BS but Branson has made his bed - probably not a good PR move to change beds at this point !!

RickB
 
carduelis
Posts: 1388
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:27 am

"Therefore buying twin engined aircraft at this time will be a huge U turn for him and his airline. A man of integrity, commitment to his ideals etc. would never do that."

A man of integrity - are you talking about Branson?



Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
RickB
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:33 am

Carduelis,

You must of missed the bit where I said 'Consider that deal for the 777's signed' !!

The integrity bit was sarcasm !!

RickB
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:48 am

RickB, perhaps I should repeat it....
"past press releases (that maybe 0.001% of the population is actually going to remember)"


Tell me, do you honestly think that vacation-makers and corporate travelers who find a respective lowest fare and/or best departure time on VS are actually going to seek travel elsewhere, when/if VS renegs on its 4engine PR?

If nothing else, those same people would have left VS when the PR started last year: due to the seeming hypocrisy of its past 763ER wetlease, expressed public interest in the twinjet Sonic Cruiser.

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RickB
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:56 am

Concordeboy,

I honestly dont think the vast majority of the people flying today actually have any interest in what they are flying on - so from that perspective - it wont make any difference. However - it will damage Branson's pride - and he knows it - it will be brought up in various interviews etc. and as someone who craves publicity of the sort he can engineer in his favour - to his own ego it wont make good reading.

For that reason the purchase of 777's will make him look bad - it wont make his airline look bad and it certainly wont deter passengers - but his ego will take a beating and im not sure he is the kind of person who will go for that.

RickB
 
behramjee
Posts: 4344
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:16 am

VS would do well from YYZ if it flies via LHR and not LGW daily with A 346s or B 744s. From LHR pax can then go to Africa and India...2 key markets out of YYZ.

As for ORD...a daily A 346 is fine to test it.

Sao Paulo too daily with A 343s or 346s is perfect.

As for HYD-India...its a wise move as only LH thus far fly from there WEST so a 3-4 times a week A 343 is an ideal aircraft for this route. But VS should too try and use its influence on getting additional frequencies to DEL and starting BOM and CCU flights ASAP with 346s and 744s!!!


 
FutureFO
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:57 am

You didn't know that Sir Richard signed an LOI woth Boeing for the 777-300ER for the new services. Also VS will become the first new member of Star after the first of the year. Or maybe those are just pipe dreams. Oh well. Would be nice to see the 777-300ER in VS livery.



Sean from MCO
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 11:28 am

As for ORD...a daily A 346 is fine to test it.

I think a 343 would be better to test it, yes daily. Maybe even twice.

N
 
luisca
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 12:06 pm

can someone in europe tell me if they had any TV adds with the 4engines4longhaul crap?
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
RickB
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:41 pm

Luisca,

I dont remember seeing any TV adds with the 4engines4longhaul slogan - however there where plenty of billboards and posters advertising Virgin with the slogan.

It would be nice to see the 777 in virgin colours - all that remains to be seen is whether or not Branson will eat his own words - he's done it plenty of times in the past so its definately a possibility. Hence the reason why many members on here question him - very few people take him that seriously purely because he is someone who craves publicity usually at everyone elses expense. Hence the reason why he offered the deal to buy the BA Concordes at £1 a plane - he also wanted the gates, slots and the check in space currently used by Concorde included in the deal....

RickB
 
David_itl
Posts: 5970
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:09 pm


When is the UK-India bilateral up for negotiation? As far as I know, all possible frequencies have been allocated so for VS to go to Hyderabad, it would need to be rewritten; I'm sure Air India wouldn't mind if it was!

I believe the Martinair 767 they had on lease only ever operated MAN-MCO.

David
 
na
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:17 pm

Why should Virgin order the 777? Don´t see a need for them and wouldn´t like to see VS do the BA thing. More 744s or A340s seem more likely especially when some quite new aircraft are cheap on the secondhand market, but who knows Bransons mind?
 
Leezyjet
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:24 pm

Intheknow,

From what I've heard, they would have ordered the 777-300ER instead of the A346, but they were not going to be ready in time.

Not heard anything about the routes you mentioned, I'd take all that with a pinch of salt, Galley FM is almost always wrong about most things (ground staff onloading their own companions before crew being one of the biggest  Big grin ).

The only routes I've heard mentioned are the OZ routes, and DXB and possibly Cuba too. No immediate plans to return to ORD or YYZ.

Thats just what I've heard, on 'Ground staff FMBig grin

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
IntheKnow
Posts: 321
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 9:13 pm

Leezyjet,

Love it! Ground Staff FM!

I guess we shall just have to wait and see. I guess this is part of why I love working at Virgin, never a dull moment!!!

In my interview 12 years ago we were told that SYD was the next route along with SFO and HKG. I guess two out of three aint bad but I wont believe we fly to SYD until I land there!!

Byee
 
manni
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 11:53 pm

Will VS start flying to ICN, as the thread starter mentioned this? Anyone can confirm this?
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
CitationX
Posts: 122
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:03 am

My guess is that Virgin is looking for an "off-season" transatlantic replacement for the high-trip/seat-mile costs of the A340-300, as well as a more economical plane to pioneer new long-haul routes. The 777 apparently has superior economics to the older A340s. I think Branson is looking to have Boeing cut him a deal much like Singapore's and swap older, A340s for 777s.

The A340-600 is their 747-200 replacement.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:13 am

I think Branson is looking to have Boeing cut him a deal much like Singapore's and swap older, A340s for 777s.

Yeah a "deal" that's continued to cost Boeing tons of money.

This was a stupid idea when it happened, and its a stupid idea now. Boeing will NEVER make another mistake like that.

high-trip/seat-mile costs

You just sorta made this up. While the 777 may be a more capable aircraft, the A340 still is an efficient and economical craft to operate.

N
 
planesarecool
Posts: 3211
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:39 am

I hope Virgin Atlantic doesn't buy the B777. It doesn't suit them and it would ruin their image. G-VROC is currently on order for them (A B747-400) and with a further 5 A340-600's and 6 A380's to come i doubt they'll be looking into B777s. I hope they don't get rid of the A340-300's! They're only around 10 years old!

-Stephen
 
Greg
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 3:01 am

In regard to the Singapore deal..don't say 'NEVER'.
While Boeing may not have been particularly pleased that the excess Airbus aircraft didn't move very fast--they would make the same deal again, anyday. Protecting their market share with one of their biggest customers is nothing they would take lightly.

 
behramjee
Posts: 4344
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 3:02 am

Virgin will make good money out of DXB if it sends a daily A 346 or B 744 to DXB...they should definitely start DXB asap with an A 346 and then based upon demand for seats and cargo upgrade to B 744 for the peak summer / winter months. From DXB it can obtain connecting traffic from neighbouring Arab countries + Pakistan & Sri Lanka.

If it does send a B 744 to DXB daily then 3-4 of those flights can be extended to PAK (namely KHI) or SRL (CMB)!!!

 
vsmike
Posts: 279
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:33 am

No 777.
"intheknow"... I don't think so.

VSM
Skyteam. Caring More About Me.
 
Hamlet69
Posts: 2468
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:40 am

"For that reason the purchase of 777's will make him look bad. . ."

Don't forget that Virgin has already come very close to ordering the 777 before. IIRC, it was in 1996 that an LOI for 11 -200ERs was signed between Boeing and VS.

OTOH, it seems VS's continuous suggestion they would order 777s is to get more concessions out of Airbus.

Regards,

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:05 am

Yeah a "deal" that's continued to cost Boeing tons of money.

And your source on this is....?

Not only did the now-famous "SQ-F.U." allow Boeing to very publically embarrass Airbus twice (the measure of which is invaluable), but the aircraft are now placed with EK and, if nothing else, not costing Boeing much of anything.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1825
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:13 am

Gigneil:


Yeah a "deal" that's continued to cost Boeing tons of money.

This was a stupid idea when it happened, and its a stupid idea now. Boeing will NEVER make another mistake like that.


I'm sure Boeing has lost money on the Singapore trade-in deal, but Airbus probably lost more. Since those ex-SQ 343s became available, Airbus Asset Management had to place close to 20 second-hand 342s and 343s. In addition, Airbus sold close to 20 343s to SAA and Swiss. Airbus tried extra hard to prevent Boeing from placing their ex-SQ 343s. It means Airbus had to offer concessions at least at the level Boeing offered to some of the customers. Boeing lost money on 17 planes, but Airbus lost money on approximately 35 planes. You don't have to be a genius to figure out who has lost more money. There are also other intangible gains for Boeing. I wouldn't say it's a deal Boeing would do anyday, but I wouldn't say it was a stupid deal, either.


While the 777 may be a more capable aircraft, the A340 still is an efficient and economical craft to operate.


You can't define efficiency in absolute term. Relative to the out-of-production MD-11, your statement might stand. But, we have only two competing products in this category. Unfortunately, the 343 is not as efficient, economical, and capable as the 772ER.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:19 am

Brilliantly stated Dynkrisolo  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
RickB
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:43 am

Dynkrisolo,

Any proof that Airbus lost money on the A340's it placed ?

Documents? Weblinks? Manufacturer statements? Financial accounts?

RickB
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:47 am

RickB,
given the case Dynkrisolo laid out... common sense would indicate that Airbus lost money.

A much more compelling case would be to come up with a source/corroboration that they didn't lose money due to said transactions, assuming of course that that was the case.  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:52 am

allow Boeing to very publically embarrass Airbus twice (the measure of which is invaluable)

In your 5 year old child's sort of way, maybe. Public embarrassment is of variable value, and in non-American cultures means far less. Even beyond that, most businessmen realize that Boeing was grasping for straws at SQ and managed to get one, and that an act of desperation is hardly an endearing quality.

but the aircraft are now placed with EK and, if nothing else, not costing Boeing much of anything.

Boeing paid for these aircraft at the height of trading. They paid a pretty penny is my guess, AND cut their sales cost to razor thin margins on the 777s. That makes them lose money from both pockets.

Whether EK is paying a lease rate worth anything to Boeing now, at the bottom of the aircraft trading cycle, is easily arguable, and I don't see you providing dollar figures to support your side either. My educated supposition is that they're still well underwater on the lease vs. the cost of the aircraft, and they're gonna have to make it up later when the value of a 343 is even lower.

I'm sure Boeing has lost money on the Singapore trade-in deal, but Airbus probably lost more.

I disagree entirely here. Airbus has effectively lost zero dollars. They sold those aircraft at whatever rate to SQ, got paid for them in full. That effectively cancels any negative benefit from their future actions...

...which weren't necessarily any worse. They may have undercut their margin target to outsell Boeing in those deals, but I rather doubt they "lost" any money on any of the planes. They may have a razor thin margin, but no matter what economic issues you have with them you can't argue that Airbus loses EADS money.

That aside they STILL SOLD 20 more frames, on top of the original 15, which were already paid for.

Boeing on the other hand undercut their margins on the 777-200ERs to begin with, ALSO forked out cash for planes at the same rate that Airbus got paid for them, and ALSO is losing incremental business by placing them at all.

You can't define efficiency in absolute term.

Nope. Which is also why your logic is as flawed as mine. In order to analyze the situation properly we'd have to take the entire set of carriers, routes, and yields into account and normalize them to include costs and potential incomes.

An A340-300 on a given route could potentially make airline "A" the exact same actual revenue as a 777-200ER on the same route, and could cost them the same per seat to operate within a nominal margin.

If there's no possibility of increased revenue from additional capabilites, then the additional capabilities add nothing to the realized value of the frame, and you've lost significant capital outlay to acquire those unused additional capabilities.

Ergo, the Northwest acquisition of A330s. Sure, it has legal implications and was influenced by a previous purchasing agreement. But there is no reason to believe that Northwest could realize additional potential by operating a 777-200ER on the routes they'll be operating A330s. They've analyzed the market, they know the score. Flying a 777-200ER with the same load and same cargo as an A330 in their case wouldn't yield the effective improvement in efficiency people scream about so often.

Same applies to the A340-300. There are many routes for which it is perfectly well suited and a 777 would do no better.

Blah.

N

[Edited 2003-10-07 00:00:25]
 
RickB
Posts: 807
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:56 am

Concordeboy,

How so?

Your the ones making the accusations - innocent until proven guilty I believe!!

Prove it

RickB
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1825
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:01 am

Rickb:

Why haven't you shown the same kind of doubt about speculation that Boeing lost money on the SQ deal? Not everything has to have proof. In this case, common sense is more than adequate to assess the situation. It took Boeing around a year to place some of the ex-SQ 343s. During the same period, Airbus placed roughly 35 new, and second-hand 342s and 343s with various airlines. In many of the deals, Boeing competed. Since we have the same product, then the competition is predominantly based on price. If Boeing is losing money on those deals, then it's not hard to deduce what Airbus had to do to win some of the orders. Many won't believe me if I say: "I have seen the numbers but I can't disclose them". So, I can only rely on the approach of using logical deduction. If you're not convinced and want to have a genuine discussion, then try to find holes in my deduction.
 
RickB
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 3:11 am

RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:10 am

Dynkrisolo,

Airbus received full payment from SQ and Boeing for the A340's it sold at a rather healthy profit margin. Imagine buying a car from a Ford garage at $10K - you then try to sell it competing with the same garage for business. You paid $10K - the dealership paid maybe $8K for the car - they can undercut you on price and still make a profit - you cant go below the $10K buy price.

Boeing had to sell the A340's at the same price it paid for them to avoid making a loss

Airbus only had to undercut Boeings cost price to prevent Boeing selling the aircraft - since a healthy margin was available on the aircraft sold to SQ/Boeing - this was not a problem. Airbus could still undercut Boeings price on A340's and make a profit.

Boeing took the aircraft in part ex for the 777's. It already offered a very good deal on the 777's therefore it made a far too small amount to profit on the deal to remotely cover the A340's cost price so it required full market value on the A340's to return a suitable profit on the deal.

Storage over a number of years of the A340's isn't cheap

Preparing the stored aircraft for service isn't chep

Boeing still own the aircraft -they are just leased out - presumably at killer rates just to get rid of them - any money is better than nothing - maybe not even enough to cover Boeings costs.

Thanks

RickB
 
wingman
Posts: 2830
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:13 am

What do you mean by "healthy profit margin" and how do you know this? SQ hasn't provided a healthy profit margin to either manufacturer in years, prestige maybe but certainly not margin.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Will VS Really Take The 777?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:15 am

Can someone explaine to me why Qantas didn´t order the 777´s?

G´bye
Michael/SE
Airbus SAS - Love them both

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