alphastrike
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:58 am

Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Fri Dec 31, 1999 7:24 am

A couple evenings ago I was watching the news and had noticed that one of the topics was t`e buying of Canadian Airlines by Air Canada. They listed a couple of the new statements and activities that would be happening.

One of these was that Canadian Regional Airlines(subdivision of CP) was going to be sold. Didn't say to who, or when, but just that it would be sold. Does anyone know of the future of Canadian Regional.

However nothing was mentioned about Calm Air(another division of CP). What is happening with them?


Thanks for your time,
Alphastrike  
 
WG YQT
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 7:24 am

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Fri Dec 31, 1999 7:29 am

Hey Alphastrike,

Calm Air is apparently being bought back by it's orginal owner before it became a Canadian Partner.
As for Regional, they are for sale but there are no interested parties at this time. Robert Deluce the President of Regional Airlines holdings had proposed to buy all the regionals (Air Ont, Air BC, etc.) and merge them but this apparently won't happen because Air Canada will not sell it;s regionals. Deluce said he will not buy just Canadian Regional.

WG YQT
 
ywg777
Posts: 1240
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 1999 9:40 am

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Fri Dec 31, 1999 8:36 am

What will happen to calm air? Are AC going to get their Saabs and Hawker Siddleys?
ywg777
 
WG YQT
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 7:24 am

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Fri Dec 31, 1999 8:54 am

No, YWG777, AC is not buying Calm Air or taking the a/c. I wrote that the original owner of Calm Air before it became a Candian Partner is buying Calm Air back. The name of that group I can't remember right now.
 
Allee
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 1999 5:47 am

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Fri Dec 31, 1999 7:18 pm

The future of Canadian Regional? Well, I highly doubt that CRA will be sold, because buyers only have 60 days to consider it and must offer reasonable terms. Also, CRA's jets are so old (25 years for the F-28s, and about 10 years for the Dash 8-100/300s), that they'll have to go and buy a new fleet.

There was an nice 3-page article in a November issue of Flight International. It says that CRA is planning to order a new fleet of regional jets to replace its 30 F-28s. They are planning to order within two years, so that they could get delivery in five years. The CEO of CRA says that the leading candidate is the 728Jet because CRA can offer a business class with this regional jet. The Dash 8s will not be replaced yet.

Allan
 
Guest

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Tue Jan 04, 2000 3:32 am

Calm air is not owned by Canadian Airlines, but is rather has a very strong code sharing agreement. Calm's planes are painted in CDN colours, but that is only because the relationship between the two is so close.
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Tue Jan 04, 2000 3:46 am

According to CP's 1998 annual report, Calm Air is 45% owned by Canadian Regional Airlines, which is in turn owned by Canadian Airlines.

So the question remains, what happens to Calm Air? If (and that's a big IF) CRAL is sold off, will the 45% shares in Calm Air go with it? Or will they be put back into Air Canada's regional holdings? Or will it just be spun off completely? Will it feed passengers to AC/CP, or will it operate independantly? It will be interesting to find out.
 
alphastrike
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:58 am

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Tue Jan 04, 2000 5:04 am

The main reason for the proposal to sell CRA is to give the other regional airlines(mostly across the prairies) a change at making more profit, especially Westjet. Wasn't there something in the news about another small regional airline starting up in the east, I think out of Hamilton, or was it Ottawa?
 
ywg777
Posts: 1240
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 1999 9:40 am

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Tue Jan 04, 2000 5:20 am

Yah alphastrike there is another airline starting up in the east. Its called Canjet. Its going to be a partner to Air Canada. The fartest west they will fly will be YWG. It is going to based in YHM(Hamilton Ontario). I think they will be using 737's. The same as Great Plains. If you know what that is?
YWG777
 
alphastrike
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:58 am

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Tue Jan 04, 2000 5:26 am

Who is Great Plains?
 
ywg777
Posts: 1240
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 1999 9:40 am

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Tue Jan 04, 2000 5:38 am

Great Plains is a start up airline that is probley going to happen in YWG. They will be in compition with WJ. They will be using 737's. YWG is going to be their home base. They are getting money for it now.
YWG777
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Tue Jan 04, 2000 6:21 am

(1) CanJet will NOT be affiliated with Air Canada. They will result in competition with Air Canada. AC was disallowed from operating a low cost carrier for 2 years, so CanJet is coming. Get it? I think I've stated this before, and the fact is that CanJet is NOT a partner to Air Canada.

(2) Don't hold your breath on Great Plains. It was a draft proposal, but Mr. Siegler (one of group wanting to form Great Plains) said a few weeks ago that the plans were shelved due to a lack of information on regulatory environment. With CanJet starting, and WestJet moving in, I doubt very much that Great Plains will be pulled off the shelf, as those two plus additional charter expansion will crowd the market. I know you want Great Plains to start, but I'd rate it at about a 5% chance that it will happen. Very unlikely right now. If you read the article from the Winnipeg Free Press from when GP was shelved, I think you will find its not a great chance to happen now.

(3) CanJet is supposed to start using 737's, but there was a rumour in the National Post about 2 weeks ago that they were negotiating to buy brand new 717's from Boeing. That would be interesting, would it not?
 
ywg777
Posts: 1240
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 1999 9:40 am

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Tue Jan 04, 2000 9:20 am

AC183,
Canjet is supposed to start in May. Thats what I am hearing. As for Great Plains. It hasn't been decided yet. WAA is going to let WJ,MM,and QN move into CP's gates. I think Canjet will get the new gate comming into YWG. As for Great Plains. They are just getting money to fund it. Shouldn't be to long. Also here in YWG there is rumer that Canjet is comming here.
ywg777
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Tue Jan 04, 2000 10:26 am

YWG777, two things: The charters and airlines like CanJet and WestJet won't take over any gates. It's cheaper for them just to let the airport authority have them, and to rent them for when they have flights. They just don't get enough use out of the facilities to have their own. By the way, CanJet flying into YWG is no rumour. CanJet will fly YHM to Montreal, Ottawa, and Halifax starting in May, and YWG flights are the second phase coming for the summer. Second, I will repeat- don't be over eager about Great Plains, or you'll set yourself up for disappointment. They're not even looking for money right now, the plan is shelved, and from the Free Press article it sounded like it would take a lot to get it out again. Anyways, its so unstable in the industry now I don't think they'd take the chance of entering the market right now, its just not good business. Anyways, what market would they serve? WestJet moving east is taking the transcontinental traffic that GP had hoped to get, and CanJet moving in is taking the traffic between eastern and central regions that GP was also hoping to get. If you want to hope GP will happen, fine, but I'm warning you its likely that it won't.
 
ywg777
Posts: 1240
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 1999 9:40 am

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Tue Jan 04, 2000 12:00 pm

Thanks for the advice... I will take it. What cities are involed in the second phase of the canjet? We will just wait about GP. You are right. I will keep you posted on the routes. Also is calm air going to keep their saabs?
YWG777
 
alphastrike
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:58 am

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Wed Jan 05, 2000 12:59 am

Didn't Westjet just purchase a few 737's just a couples months ago. Sounds like they're ready to take advantage of the newer opportunities, especially in the west. Are they going to take advantage of the east as well?

Calm air will most likely keep their planes since they are going to continue flying. The time is ripe for them to up their survice and role in the dough not that some competition is out of the way.
 
ywg777
Posts: 1240
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 1999 9:40 am

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Wed Jan 05, 2000 1:47 am

Yes Alphastrike you are right. WJ did get more 737-200's . They are expanding east. they now have 14 planes. This announcement will be in this month some time. Don't you worry I will keep you posted on this as it develops.
YWG777
 
alphastrike
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:58 am

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Wed Jan 05, 2000 4:28 am

In my opinion there isn't much of a point in GP starting up anytime soon. There isn't the demand right now for another regional and Westjet and Canjet will probably cover that area pretty well. If GP did want something maybe they could negotiate becoming part of the WJ or Canjet fleet. If Calm air does some expanding I think the issue of regional carriers would be a pretty healthy economy, maybe even competitive.

I know it's sort of silly to think of this right now but seeing some regionals expand a little more into the states would be pretty good. Maybe not to the major airports, but to the secondary ones. In the future as air travel becomes more demanding and the ticket prices become higher regionals may be the thing for those short hops.
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Wed Jan 05, 2000 6:57 am

About the idea of expanding those regionals more. I for one rather doubt we will see Canadian Regional Airlines (CRAL) sold, because I'm not sure who would buy it. It would, however, be an excellent partner airline for the NW/KLM/CO/Alitalia alliance. They would have to find a Canadian businessman, but they could transfer some flying into MSP to CRAL, and expand services a little, maybe offer a few new destinations, and it would be very interesting. Possibly a few new routes from Ontario into DTW also would work. It wouldn't be a very big part of their alliance, but as a regional partner in Canada it would act in a capacity not unlike the way British Midland may act for Star Alliance. For that matter, I don't see why CRAL couldn't model itself on Horizon and be successful. Although I highly doubt CRAL will actually be sold off, don't you think either of these ideas has potential. The key would be to find an investor, and to negotiate transitional plans from a CP regional to an independant one.
 
ywg777
Posts: 1240
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 1999 9:40 am

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Wed Jan 05, 2000 11:33 am

I agree with AC183. Good job.. I think that Calm air would be successful in the USA. I think they should fly in to FAR,and GFK. That would work for a saab.
The best Canadian city for that is YWG because of it being the closest.
YWG777
 
alphastrike
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:58 am

RE: Canadian Regional Being Sold?

Thu Jan 06, 2000 2:46 am

Well whatever happens to CRA the best way for the remaining regional airlines to stay competitive would be to open up a couple more links, including to the US. If they don't take advantage of the situation I think youu would probably see the Charter airlines starting to make a little more $$$.

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