NWAA330
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US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 12:59 pm

What will the United States airline industry look like 10 years from now? What airlines will still be around? Will the LCC's have basically taken over? What hubs will have been dropped. Etc. Opinions.

NWAA330

[Edited 2003-10-06 06:01:18]

[Edited 2003-10-06 06:02:57]
To Fly is to Live.
 
workbench
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 1:14 pm

AA Gone
UA Gone

SWA #1
Delta #2
NWA #3
CO # 4
B6 #5
 
CALMSP
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 1:24 pm

I dont think UA/AA will be gone, B6 its hard to say, once the years start adding up, you may see some problems arise, just as CEO Neelan has stated, higher maintenance costs, higher employee wages, etc. but ya never know. I do think in 10 years, aviation should almost be back where it was, the economy will eventually turn around and aviation will be back to normal.
 
jhooper
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 1:30 pm

back to normal? I don't know exactly what is 'normal' in the airline industry, it changes pretty fast! Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised to see air travel demand double by 2013.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
LambertMan
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 1:37 pm

Hmmmmmmm....UA and AA gone? I don't know about that one. This whole post is a tough one to call, there are really too many intangibles in this whole post to make a good predicition in my mind.
I'll give it my best shot though:
1.AA
2.WN
3.UA
4.DL
5.HP, LCC experiment seems to be working, company looks good
6.CO
The rest are B6, FL, TZ, AS, US, F9 all jumbled up at the bottom
Hubs dropped, ehh....depends how each company is doing, I would guess at this time the ones in danger are DL@DFW, CO@CLE ( I know there was that post awhile ago about how it wasn't in danger, but do you remember STL and how they were bragging about all the new rennovations and how it would continue to be a major player in the AA system? Well I do, threw us a bone? affirmative ghostrider.) US@PIT, AA@STL. If it really picks back up you could even see re-births of certain hubs such as AA@STL or DL@DFW if the capacity is needed.
 
Okie
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 2:42 pm

UAL 1997 $101 per share 2003 $1 per share. A monkey with flash cards could make a buck in the stock market in the 90's, the airlines were making money inspite of themselves there was no end in sight.
The only large airline I can remember pulling out of bankruptcy long term has been CO.
The industry has always been fluid, gone over the years BN, EA, TWA, Panam, the list goes on and on.
My guess one of the majors will fail. (I suspect UA). Especially if interest rates start climbing real soon which will cause higher debt service.
Some of the LCC,s will fail as the competition increases among themselves over popular routes. B6 seems to be positioning themselves with smaller aircraft to pick up thinner routes and feeder routes looks like they are ahead of the curve.
Scope clauses in pilot contracts will move towards putting 110 passenger aircraft (I'm thinking 717/170-190) to second tier carriers. They will phase in as not to displace existing pilots, but due to retirements and atriction.
Possibly a series of accidents on a carrier due to some mx, or unforeseen airframe problem (thinking electra, comet) causing passengers to shift loyalties to other carriers.
Toooooo many intangibles would be an understatement.

and of course I forgot about the giant fissure opening up and swallowing up all the runways at ORD causing all operations to be shifted to STL, how about that Lambertman
 
pilotpip
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 2:59 pm

"and of course I forgot about the giant fissure opening up and swallowing up all the runways at ORD causing all operations to be shifted to STL, how about that Lambertman"

Ouch!

I don't see STL being a dominant hub any more. Don't get me wrong, I love the airport I work at. I do see it becoming a very competitive market. TWA used to own Lambert. Now that AA's extra slots are being taken back and they will likely move all operations into one councourse I think we may see a lot more variety here as other airlines add in flights to try and get a piece of the pie. I still think somebody like Jet Blue or AirTran would be smart to jump in here.

I don't even want to guess how it will be in 10 years. This industry seems to go in a 8-10 year cycle and it's either feast or famine. The ones that survive and remain strong will be smart during the feast and save some cash up. I still think that airlines will shy from such a dedicated hub and spoke system in favor of smaller aircraft capable of more direct flights at a lower cost.

DMI
 
acidradio
Crew
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 3:39 pm

Nobody is factoring in whatever the next thing our terrorists are cooking up next. That never helps out the airlines.
Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
 
AZAFATA
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 4:17 pm

I consulted my crystal ball and this is what I saw : Crystal Airways will never take off,AA ,UA ,CO, NW,America Waste,SouthWest will still be around this are "Die Hard" airlines. JetBlue,Frontier,AirTran will be in bussiness as long as they keep themselves away from a fatal crash.USAirways is tricky right now,well have to see.Song AND Starfish,,,will anybody even remember them by 2013? This is just my opinion,PLEASE dont take it personal!!!!!!!
 
AZAFATA
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:11 pm

OH! almost forgot , Delta will be around of course,hating AirTran more than ever and NWA will finally start retiring the DC-9 maybe by 2023....Yaikes!!!!!!
 
L-188
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:50 pm

Legs that take longer the a couple hours will be history, with the idiotic security situation now, it takes less time to drive say, Seattle/Portland or simular then it will to fly.

And cost less too.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
UAL747
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:01 pm

Frequency, frequency, frequency, until the skies become jammed (which they already are in some places). Then it will be bigger, bigger, and bigger planes flying on routes that once only small airliners flew.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
ssides
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:58 pm

Things that I think will happen in the US over the next 10 years:

1. One major airline will go under completely. Probably UA. Definitely not AA, but maybe a smaller major like US.

2. WN will become the largest carrier in the US, in terms of passengers and mainline aircraft.

3. The regional jet phenomenon really takes hold. More than half of US departures will be on jets with less than 90 seats.

4. The US and EU reach an "open skies" agreement, allowing more carriers to serve LHR. Some European airlines will enter the "very large" US domestic market, flying LAX-JFK, etc.


Here are things I hope will happen in the next 10 years:

1. All turboprops are eliminated from commercial service (except on ESA routes)

2. AA makes a decent profit and is able to negotiate more fleet flexibility with its pilots union]

3. DFW surpasses ORD and ATL, becoming the world's busiest airport

"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
luv2fly
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:12 pm

The first airline that realizes that the high end business traveler is NOT coming back will be the winner. Someone will have to go, who I have no idea, I never thought PanAm, Eastern or TWA would be gone. LCC's will have even more of the market that today.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
bobnwa
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 9:46 pm

LambertMan,

How about that airline to the north of you? The one with the red tails. Do they just disappear into the sunset without a whimper?
 
elwood64151
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Mon Oct 06, 2003 11:14 pm

My predictions (take them for what they are):

1) AA and UA will continue to fight over the #1 spot, unless

2) Either AA or UA (probably UA) goes under

3) If 2, scrap 1 and replace the bankrupt carrier with DL

4) WN will not yet have achieved the "#1" carrier status, but will be tantalizingly closer, perhaps #3 or 4

5) B6 will merge with F9 when F9 starts showing diminishing profits, but has not yet taken on a massive debt load.

6) HP will try again to open up an east-coast hub, its change-over to LCC becoming complete reality and so it will be able to absorb the cost better than it did at CMH

7) FL will open up a midwestern or western hub, partially causing 5. This hub will ease connections from the east- to west-coast and vice-versa

8) CO will surpass NW

9) YX will barely survive, keep its Saver Service, and turn into a regular LCC with better food

10) Air Travel will grow by 50% or more of 2003 levels, allowing most carriers to operate profitably again within two years (by 2005)

11) AS will begin serving markets further and further east

12) Another LCC will start up at MCI. Whether it succeeds or fails depends on whether it is started by someone with intelligence or not, and whether the city will let them have a single, large gate area

13) Atlanta's new international terminal will allow it to continue as the busiest airport for the foreseeable future by freeing up terminal E for domestic operations

14) WN will realize that it must either begin serving smaller airports (probably with RJs or reduced numbers of flights to its major markets) or must expand to international travel, either of which will appear to cut into its profits but will actually be helping the airline stay profitable

15) Open Skies will be delayed several years but will become reality. Cabotage will not happen during the next 10 year period, and probably not even in the next 20.

16) Someone will develop a super-sonic transport, moving probably Mach 1.4, that carries 100-120 pax for the same cost as an A319 or 73G over the same distance. If it's a US manufacturer, expect restrictions on domestic supersonic flight to be lifted.

Cheers!

[Edited 2003-10-06 16:16:53]
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
airbazar
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:12 am

I expect that there will be no "major" airlines as we know today. Most airlines will have a niche of their own but there won't be an airline that caters to everyone and everything.
 
CO2BGR
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:25 am

In 10 years there will be about 3 majors that cater to the business travler (AA,DL,CO) in order by size. The LCC's will fly the leisure travler everywhere. B6 will buy F9to move their opps. out west WN will be the biggest carrier IF they go into the smaller airports AND they fly internationaly. At least one LCC will fly 767s to Europe, The first one to do that will be in the best position for the long term. HP, song and starfish will be long gone. Thats my 2 cents.

CO2BGR
There are too many self indulgent weiners in this town with too much bloody money" Randal Raines- Gone in 60 Seconds
 
DLMHT
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:54 am

I also see 3 major airlines, (AA, DL, CO....not sure what order).

WN will definitely be the biggest LCC, but they are in for a bit of a surprise. Right now, they have some of the lowest labor costs in the industry, and I don't think that their crews will be willing to "fly for peanuts" when their company doubles in size and starts to rival the major carriers. Especially if they fly internationally. The other union groups will also want increases, and I just hope they're poised to handle it (we all know the problems that Comair, DL, and UA had with their union groups).

The era of the future is definitely high-frequency regionals, and each major should be planning on strengthening their regional groups over the next few years in order to be able to handle it.
 
kaitakfan
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:20 am

This thread sure is funny to see what people think will happen in the airline industry. All I can say is it will be interesting to see what it will be like then, but no way in hell will I bother predicting the future of one of, if not the most volitile industry in the world!
 
airbazar
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:23 am

Oh, one more thing. Not only do I think that there won't be a "major". The hub and spoke system will be returned to it's original concept of providing feeder traffic from small airports. As the LCC's have proved, p-to-p service is a lot cheaper than making people go through a hub while traveling between cities than can sustain non-stop flights.
 
dsuairptman
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:43 am

I sepulate that UA will be much smaller w/ the majority of all domestic flights on regional partners,possibly some operating 737Ngs. Smaller UA planes in the mainline fleet will serve high frequency, high yield markets.

Air Tran will be the number 2 LCC, and could easily be #1 if SWA doesn't open
flights to many smaller markets. The entire Jet Blue, Frontier thing is kind of blury to me, but they may forge an alliance before 2010.

US Airways will be flying, expect more mainline flights to the centeral and Western US, Canada and Mexico. They will probaly be the East Coast number one choice for tarvel to the Carribiean.

DL, AA, CO, and good ol' NWA will be the major powerhouses. Hard to say if any could claim a number one title, but the will be the 'heritage' carriers still
flying and carring pax.

Turbo props probaly will have given way to RJs w/ the exectpion of Eagle's MIA, and San Juan, bases. Ditto for regionals flying intra-California routes form LAX, Intra-New England flights, and CO/SW props in TX.

NW will probly put the last nine out to pasture between 2012-14. It will be an historic last flight.

DL will start replacing the MD-80s en masse during the same time frame w/ 737 NGs, Ditto for AA.

Boeing will be the Number one airliner manufactuer will Airbus runs a distant second. Boeing SST could/will very well happen by 2019 w/ NW being the first to launch the type on East Coast to Asia flts.

GEAUX SAINTS!
 
planemaker
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:44 am

In ten years who can really predict the survivors. But here is the first two paragraph from an article in yesterday's news:

Low-cost carriers to 'inherit the earth' in US

By the end of 2006, the current crop of seven US low-cost carriers will operate 1,030 aircraft, up from 776 today, and will account for 40% of domestic mainline aircraft movements, according to JP Morgan analyst Jamie Baker.

By comparison, the domestic narrowbody fleet at the US network carriers (American, Continental, Delta, Northwest, United and US Airways) will remain static at 2,494 aircraft at the end of the period.

Here is the link to the rest of the article: http://www.atwonline.com/indexfull.cfm?newsid=3507

The thrust of the article is that LCC's have almost completely taken away the Major's pricing power on walk up fairs. They give several examples in the article.

Undoubtedly, within 10 years there will be some sort of international mergers - We can see that Iberia/BA, KLM/Air France are just now the beginning. BA/AA next??

Furthermore, hampering the Major's business class market recovery will be the increased use of fractional biz jet ownership AND jet air taxis. In the next few years the Eclipse, Adams 700, Cessna Mustang and others will enable executives to increasingly bypass the bogged down mass air transit system and fly from an airport 20 minutes from their home to another that is 20 minutes from their destination.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
Paddy
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:41 am

Given that this is such a broad topic, I'm only going to focus on the airlines themselves for now.

1. The Fatso's (UA and AA). Everyone keeps predicting that one of them will fail. I'm not so sure of that yet. Although it the climate is bad, I think the industry has learned a few things from Pan Am, Eastern and TWA.
*UA may shrink a bit and lose some of its territory but it will come out of all this. UA is the world's largest airline and a key member of the world's largest alliance. No matter what is happening at home, keeping the international flights rolling out helps them keep something of a pulse. If they do fail, it will be a slower process and it will be due to the increased domestic success of the LCC's and the increased international success of other majors like CO and NW. I also wonder if "Starfish" is timed correctly. Maybe UA should clean up its current mess before putting a foot in the LCC door. Or maybe its now or never and its the only ticket to survival. I don't know the answer, but its still a crucial question.
*If either of them fail it will be AA in a few years. UA may be in more trouble now but I think it is more capable of weathering bankruptcy than AA. AA is barely avoiding bankruptcy and if it slides into it then it will be lights out at DFW. AA does seem to be cleaning house a bit, so maybe they will coast past annihilation. I'm curious what their plans for the future are. I wonder how they will deal with watching the LCC's devour the cities that they will inevitably pull out of.

2. The Other Majors: I see NW expanding in the Pacific and UA reducing some service there due to competition not only from NW but also from the Asian airlines who will start more service to the US when the economy takes off again (whenever that is!!??!!!). Anderson seems to be doing a good job at NW, being very prudent in his fleet-overhauling efforts.
*As for CO, I think it will expand in Europe and The Middle East and continue to grow as an airline. I see good things for them if they stay on the path that Gordo has set.
*DL is a tough one to call, I think. We'll see how Song does, they are smart to at least try it right now as the LCC's are kicking ass/taking names and DL seems to be keeping their head off of the chopping block financially. They may gobble up domestic service that UA and AA can't afford to keep. I also think DL is onto something in their major cutbacks in intl. service. They seem to be relying more and more on their codesharing partners (NW and Skyteam etc.) for international flights. This allows them to get rid of some expensive aircraft(notice the MD11's aren't being replaced right this second) and focus on staving off the LCC hordes at home.
*As for US, they don't seem to be going anywhere. God only knows whats in store for them. Hopefully not a merger with UA. If I were in charge of US I would try for a merger with an airline that is strong in the west but needs more presence in the east. This would keep them from being The Odd Man Out. But as the past has taught us, geography never seems to play a big enough role in airline mergers(maybe the conditions were never right for such mergers).

3. As for the big regionals, I think AS will be the most successful. Its on the right track with its alliances with NW, CX etc. Flying AS seems to be almost as cheap as the LCC's but they have the international connections that the LCC's lack. This is a crucial difference that will keep them competitive. I think they will keep growing steadily, adding more flights to the east coast, and expanding their existing west coast service through Horizon.

4. The LCC's will continue to grow but as for which ones will remain in ten years, I don't know.
*WN for sure but I have know idea how they will grow. Bigger aircraft? MORE(!?!) frequencies and cities? Maybe they will gobble up some other LCC's. Its hard to say with them because they are so cautious that you can't predict what they will do until its safe and obvious.
*I Think B6 will have some growing pains but will continue to be successful. However, whether or not they have an idiot at the helm when things get tough will be important. They seem to be smart in fortifying existing cities before expanding to new ones. I hope they expand to more cities, though.
*As for the others, it's hard to say. TZ seems to be doing well but I'm curious to see what they will do in the future.
*FL needs to move west and gain presence in more cities if its going to be anything other than a bit player.

Those are my impressions from following the industry over the last two years, but I'm no expert. If anybody has facts to either back up or tear apart my predictions I'd love to hear them.
 
PVD757
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 8:41 am

Ha, Ha, Ha! There wil be no first class domestically. The majors will have totally cloned themselves after the LCCs. With that idea, fractional ownership will really take off and pick up all the pampered and fly them anywhere and everywhere.
 
Guest

RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 9:13 am

1. UAL Survives, barely.
2. DL, CO and NWA merge.
3. A majority of the work ticket counters, ramp, fueling and maintenance are contracted. Gate agents remain, ticket counters go to contractors. Line maintenance remains, heavy maintenance gone. Fueling is 85% contracted already. UAL, AA, and NWA will all contract out their ramp services, except for at the hubs.
4. The aircraft selections of the mainline carriers will be streamlined. Some will be airbus, some will be Boeing. You will not see a mix fleet.
5. Large Cities and International Destination will be mainline. Medium Hubs will be a mix of RJ and Mainline (717/737-700/A-319/A-320). Everything else will be RJ.
6. The greatest advancement. CNS/ATM will be coupled to airline and airport systems to enhance gate utilization, airspace, scheduling, and load demand balance.
7. We'll still be flying...
 
klwright69
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 9:14 am

I doubt 1st class will disappear entirely. It is still a nice perk on longer flights, especially transcontinental flights. 1st class is already disappearing on shorter flights due to the RJ's.

I doubt AA or UA will disappear. Have you people forgotten?? CO made it through chapter 11. TWICE. Certainly AA and UA can make it through these tough times. But of course, CO changed radically. So UA and AA will probably really change too!

As for SW being the biggest carrier, get they don't even fly to my home state, Colorado. When we see Southwest's commercials during NFL games, it's like what's the point? who cares? I also think people forget that as Southwest grows, it will lose certain advantages it had before as a smaller carrier. An article in the Wall Street Journal said that.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 9:38 am

Well here goes:

1) The network carriers will develop around their global alliances. Common brand identities will emerge similar to regional partners of today; Skyteam America (operated by Delta Airlines) or Star America (operated by US Airways) for instance. Sales and marketing staffs will be merged and fleet commonality will take hold to a great extent, with exceptions of course. Minor/overlapping hubs will be downgraded or possibly eliminated. Take DL/CO/NW for example: DTW/ATL/MSP/EWR/IAH remain major hubs with CLE/MEM/CVG/SLC/DFW essentially RJ hubs with a few mainline ops to larger markets. This is already occuring.
2) WN will continue to do their own thing and take advantage of downsizing as they have done already in BNA/MCI/MDW/BWI etc...They will have many longhaul domestic routes with 1-3 flights a day such as MHT-SAN and SEA-FLL that aren't on the agenda at this time. If they form an alliance with anyone it will be WestJet in Canada, their most successful North American clone that doesn't compete with them. They will have added perhaps a dozen new cities from what they have now.
3) I see alliances or consolidation among the other LCC's. ATA/AirTran/America West and JetBlue/Frontier seem the most logical. Spirit is a wild card.
4) Alaska/Hawaiian/Aloha will either partner with or be absorbed by one of the 3 major network alliances.
5) First class will have been replaced by some kind of "business coach" as a sop to longhaul passengers.
6) LCC's will have 50% of the domestic market.

But who knows....  Big grin

Coast to Coast and Border to Border, Ozark Flies YOUR Way!
 
luv2fly
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 9:40 am

Klwright69

Never say never, lots of us never thought the likes of PanAm, Braniff, Eastern and TWA would no longer be flying our skys above....
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
klwright69
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 9:49 am

Luv2fly,

I reread my post several times. I never used the word "never" or "impossible" or something totally proposterous like "the government won't let UA or AA fail" or that they are "too big to fail." I said I "doubt" UA or AA will disappear and meant that bankruptcy is not an automatic death sentence, as CO showed twice; and that some here are writing them off too quickly.

I completely agree with you that big airlines certainly can go under. Everyone knows this.
 
klwright69
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 9:55 am

I will clarify further, I said AA and UA can "certainly" make it. I did not mean that their continued existence is "certain," I meant that if they go under they will have really blown all the things going in their favor. Furthermore they ought to make it considering Continental surivived with a lot less going in their favor the two times CO filed chapter 11.
 
planemaker
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 10:50 am

OzarkD9S:

Re: your point 2) If they (WN) form an alliance with anyone it will be WestJet in Canada...

It would seem that JetBlue is the more likely partner for WestJet. Neeleman helped start up WestJet. Their operational style are similar - seat assignments, leather seats, etc. Plus, WestJet recently signed an agreement with JetBlue to install JetBlue's PTV's in their B737's.

Re: your point 6) LCC's will have 50% of the domestic market.

In my Post (No. 22) I provided a link to an article that predicts that in two years the LCC's will have 40%... so you might have to revise your estimate for 10 years. Wink/being sarcastic


PVD757:

I agree with your post wholeheartedly! It will be very interesting to see what announcements come out of the NBAA convention in MCO this week.

By the way, NASA has a presentation that they gave at Oshkosh titled: After Airliners  Wow!






Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
Cody
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:23 pm

I like everyone's responses, but I honestly believe Mesa and a few other "regionals" will play a big role in the industry in the next ten years. If Mesa gets as big as they want to, I can imagine their revenue picture will be quite impressive and who knows what will come out of that. Remember Allegheny Airlines? Who would have thought that in 1968, a new hire pilot at Allegheny would be better off than a new hire at Braniff or Eastern in terms of job longetivity? Could Mesa be the next Allegheny?
 
planemaker
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:26 pm

Cody:

I believe that Mesa growth and that of a few other "regionals" will only be constrained by finances. To paraphrase Allan Mullaly's words (Boeing Aircraft CEO) for the 7E7: the larger RJ's are the "ultimate market fragmenter" - providing hub by-pass and point-to-point service. There are lots of underserved markets that are waiting to be tapped.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
Guest

RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:32 pm

In the years to come Virgin will start up a US airline dropping their traditional red tail livery for a skull and crossbones. They will have a chief pilot named Captain Jack Sparrow who will sneak into airports at night and steal other airlines airplanes sneaking them off to Branson's secret island to be repainted and put into service.. The FAA as well as passengers will look the other way. United and AA will merge and adopt uniforms very similar to the British navy in the 1700s just to make airplane spotters believe its like the old days of aviation. Out of nowhere Braniff will re-appear at DFW stealing AA gates and setting fire to the AA gate counters. They will fly 707s resurrected from Mojave not caring how much they cost to fly or how noisy they are. Also airports all over the world will drop the noise requirements allowing more "retro-jets" to enter service. TWA Will start over again using some Convair 880s they forgot they had but someone found in an underground hanger at STL that had been buried for decades. Pan Am will buy back its 747s from UPS and get its name back from that abomination that flies on the east coast. A few very old Piedmont execs will pool their resources and do a last minute hostile takeover of US Airways, burning the A330s and A320s in effigy on the ramp at PHL and starting to repaint the 737s and 767s (which were Piedmonts in the first place) back to their old colors. Southwest and Jet blue will merge and start flying to places nobody really ever wanted to fly to.. Like Muncie, Waco and Lubbock. But 9.5 years from now all this will be for nothing since we will all be able to teleport ourselves thus eliminating the need for airlines.
 
elwood64151
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:39 am

We have just been informed that teleporters will not be invented for another 19 years. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Very funny post!

I'd also like to agree (gasp!) with BoingGoineGone: I think there will be a lot of component operatoins at the majors. In other words, ramp, ticket counter, and other services will be handled for several carriers by a single contractor, either one for each job or one for the entire operation. Gate operations may still be operated by the carrier, but who knows?

I know this was tried back in the '60s, and didn't work, but one could argue that regulation and inter-airline squabbling had lot to do with that.

In any event, things will be very different in ten years.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
Guest

RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:44 am

With the new livery and staffing I suggested in my previous post I think the US division of Virgin will serve many routes in the Caribbean. And Song will change their livery to include a large Brunhilda character on the tail letting out a long note.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:46 pm

I have to agree most w/ BoeingGoingGone in #25 exc. that CO is not interested in merging w/anyone. I think DL and NW will merge but including CO makes the total package too big and CO has a do-it-yourself mindset - which they are probably most capable of executing.

US will be acquired by either AA, UA, or a European carrier (in that order of likelihood). Whichever of AA or US is left will survive but will not be as prominent as today.

Some LCC's will merge/cooperate as necessary but they all recognize the importance of staying true to their business model in order to make money. For that they should be commended.

The problem w/ the article mentioned is that it assumes that LCC's will be capable of providing the nationwide level of service that the network carriers currently provide. I get very upset when I hear people say that the network carrier model is broken and I wish that each of the big six would each pick a city a month that they will discontinue mainline service to until they get the message across that the reason they have high costs is because they provide a nationwide transportation system. LCC's costs will quickly look like the majors if they are asked to provide the level of service provided by the network carriers - a reflection of the complexity necessary to operate hubs (the only way to serve 300 plus cities w/ frequent service connecting the world) and multiple aircraft types. Sure, LCC's will have lower labor costs reflecting their younger age and lower seniority of their employees but over time they will be in the same spot as the majors. It is very short-sighted to think that this country will settle for anything less than network carrier service by at least three nationwide hub and spoke carriers. Anything above that is probably unnecessary and should be eliminated. There will be plenty of what we currently call LCC's that will focus on key regions or market niches. It is also ludicrous to not believe that at least three major airlines will figure out how to run an operation capable of competing w/ LCC's. I give CO, DL, and AA the highest likelihood of adapting - in that order. And LCC employees are not going to sit around earning peanuts while their companies earn huge amounts of money.

In ten years there will be no difference between majors because they will all look fairly similar. Some carriers may be larger and serve more international destinations but it is not out of the realm of possibility to think that some current LCC's will have multiple fleet types and fly internationally - w/ costs just like today's majors.
 
nwcoflyer
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RE: US Airline Industry 10 Years From Now?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:04 pm

In 2013...

Here are my predictions for largest carriers:
1. NW/CO
2. DL
3. AA
4. WN
5. UA
6. FL
7. B6
8. AS
9. HP

NW will merge with CO in the same fashion that KL merged into AF. NW and CO will form company, where NW owns the majority of CO, and helps NW gain ground. Skyteam member. Pinnacle will become a large Airlink carrier, and be as large as today's Delta Connection carriers combined. (I am just dreaming, I know, I just have one hell of a bias towards NW)
DL will be up to the number 2 spot. They will continue their alliance with NW and remain a Skyteam leader.
AA will go to the number 3 spot. MRTC is gone, and they are in an alliance with UA to combat the NW/CO/DL alliance.
WN will be at the number 4 spot. WN will likely introduce a new plane for regional flights seeing that B6 has been successful.
UA will be to the number 5 spot and has teamed up with AA for an alliance. AA and UA own Chicago.
FL will be number 6 after receiving over 100 new aircraft, and adding high frequencies and a west coast hub.
B6 will continue its growth, however, slowing down somewhat with higher maintenance costs with all of the new a/c, labor costs, and more crowded JFK. LGB is maxed out in number of flights. SLC is a new hub.
AS will add a few more east coast flights and expand west coast flights. LAX will have more AS frequencies, and codeshare with the NW/CO/DL alliance for a LAX hub.
HP will have a new fleet of A318/319/320/321s with a very successful LCC operation out of the southwest. Will likely add more transcons.
The New American is arriving.