Flying-Tiger
Topic Author
Posts: 3923
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

328JET And 728 Update

Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:15 pm

Some information on the 728/928:
- first flight scheduled for summer 2004
- first delivery summer 2006
- scheduled price 23 million US$
- 85% of the sales expected to be in Europe and the USA
- 15% to China
- 35% of the 928 development already finished
- 600 million EUR (=580 million US$ about) needed to finish 728 development
- D´Long currently talking with fonds in USA, Hong Kong and Singapore

Some general info: the ARJ21 is expected to be sold ONLY within China!

Some info about the 328:
- 2 328JET already delivered to Hainan, 6 more due
- Hainan has taken 5 options with its last order
- AvCraft currently in talks with several customers about 45 328JET
- 2 Envoy 3 are currently on offer according to Air Trading

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
pilottim747
Posts: 1577
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2001 2:34 pm

RE: 328JET And 728 Update

Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:30 pm

How many deliveries does that make for the 328JET?

pilottim747
Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
 
planemaker
Posts: 5411
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: 328JET And 728 Update

Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:04 pm

Hi Flying-Tiger:

Some general info: the ARJ21 is expected to be sold ONLY within China!

What I have been reading gives a completely different impression...

China's ACAC confirms ARJ21 launch deals
(17Sep03)

ACAC, a subsidiary of Chinese state-owned manufacturing giant China Aviation Industry Corp I (AVIC I), says the ARJ21 will seat 78 in a two-class configuration and 85 in an all-economy configuration. It says the 35 launch orders are all firm deals.

It also says it aims to have the aircraft certificated by the US FAA, European JAA and the Civil Aviation Administration of China.

“We will try to develop a world market,” says ACAC sales manager Dou Teng.

“Where the [Embraer] ERJ and [Bombardier] CRJ can fly, the ARJ can too.”


Alenia studies European assembly line for ARJ21
(30Sep03)

Italy’s Alenia Aeronautica is exploring possible regional jet partnership opportunities with China Aviation Industry Corp I (AVIC I) that could result in European assembly of the ARJ21.

Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
planemaker
Posts: 5411
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: 328JET And 728 Update

Fri Oct 17, 2003 1:25 pm

Latest news:

FAIRCHILD DORNIER 728 COMPLETES STATIC TESTING

David Kaminski-Morrow, Air Transport Intelligence News, October 14, 2003

Revived German regional aircraft manufacturer Fairchild Dornier AeroIndustries has completed static tests on the prototype 728 twin-jet, clearing the way for installation of electronic instrumentation on the aircraft.

Systems and instruments will be added to the first example over the next few months, a move which will lead directly to 'power-up' of the aircraft - activation of all the electronic equipment on board.

Chinese investment company D'Long, through its European division, has been working to resurrect the stalled Regional Jet project after acquiring it earlier this year from the administrators of Fairchild Dornier. The German manufacturer filed for insolvency before the 728 could be prepared for first flight.

D'Long Europe is attempting to complete the development process for the aircraft after it acquired the 728 programme in June this year.

"The necessary static stress tests for first-flight authorisation on the wing, body and empennage were successfully completed," says a spokeswoman for the company. "Successful completion of these tests is an important step towards the first flight."
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: 328JET And 728 Update

Fri Oct 17, 2003 1:54 pm

Where do you get your info from? I can spot one error at once, 1€uro is 1,13US$.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4110
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: 328JET And 728 Update

Sat Oct 18, 2003 11:32 am

Flying-Tiger is probably the most informed on the old FD products on this board, show some respect. He got a conversion right...big freaking deal.

Thanks for the update. Will be nice to see these planes in production again (or at last in the 728s case).
 
DAL12
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 6:56 am

RE: 328JET And 728 Update

Sat Oct 18, 2003 11:47 am

I myself would love to see this program back and flying since I do thing it has good potential. However, I just don't thing the Chinese are exactly sure about where to focus their efforts. You hear something different about the fate and the role of the ARJ-21 every time.

I don't think anyone here can really know because I don't think the decision makers have made up their minds. The design is being done in Germany and the tooling and final assembly will also have to be there -- I just don't think the Chinese will be content with just some fuselage rivetting work and other ancillary tasks. Their ambitions are much greater than that.
 
Flying-Tiger
Topic Author
Posts: 3923
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: 328JET And 728 Update

Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:12 pm

@ Allessandro: I´m currently on the other site of the globe where I´m converting EUROs into Kiwi-$$$$$$, not into US-$. So please be forgiving and ignore the number I´ve given. It should be 600 million EUR or ~ 670 million US$.

@ DAL12: I got some of the information from an article of a larger business newspaper, if I remember correctly they had quoted someone from D´Long saying that about the ARJ21. I can only give the information I hear/read/get, nothing else.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
Greg
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RE: 328JET And 728 Update

Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:50 am

This may yet a 'Star' spoiler...
 
BeltwayBandit
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:25 am

RE: 328JET And 728 Update

Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:43 am

I really, really hope this is true. It was a real pity to see the 728 abandoned. But if you really examine what is said, there is potentially a lot of fluff in these facts. This thing is a long way from success.

Some information on the 728/928:
- first flight scheduled for summer 2004
- first delivery summer 2006
Buyer? If there was a buyer, it would be named here.
- scheduled price 23 million US$
- 85% of the sales expected to be in Europe and the USA
Sales will be made to whomever buys them. This stat is meaningless..
- 15% to China
- 35% of the 928 development already finished
The 728 is itself 35% of the 928 development!
- 600 million EUR (=580 million US$ about) needed to finish 728 development
- D´Long currently talking with fonds in USA, Hong Kong and Singapore
Assuming "fonds" means "funds" this means that D'Long needs lots of money to finish the job. So did Fairchild Dornier! If they don't get a book of orders, they will not get funding; and if they do not get funding, the 728 is still dormant (I refuse to say "dead").

Some general info: the ARJ21 is expected to be sold ONLY within China!

Some info about the 328:
- 2 328JET already delivered to Hainan, 6 more due
- Hainan has taken 5 options with its last order
- AvCraft currently in talks with several customers about 45 328JET
Talks is cheap. Call me when the orders are booked.
- 2 Envoy 3 are currently on offer according to Air Trading


[Edited 2003-10-23 23:51:29]
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
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RE: 328JET And 728 Update

Fri Oct 24, 2003 10:04 am

D'long has nearly that kind of cash internally (in US dollars no less). Not that they would spend it solely on that program... So, it's an interesting development.
I imagine there immediate lure will be to get LH back on board (or at least pique their interest).

It's still a viable program. And may indeed be on the market at the right time.
I think much of the hold up is the committment that both the 728 and 928 be produced effectively in tandem (18 months apart) that could break the bank.

Expect the price to fall well below 20M for the right (launch) customer.

The good news is that they are proceeding with preflight on the completed bird. That may say more than anything else they care to release.
 
B2707SST
Posts: 1258
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:25 am

RE: 328JET And 728 Update

Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:28 am

This just in from Business Aviation Weekly: AvCraft has secured financing to restart 328JET production. Good news for FD staff in Oberpfaffenhoffen.


HEADLINE: AVCRAFT REFINANCES TO MOVE AHEAD WITH 328JET PROGRAM

AVCRAFT REFINANCES TO MOVE AHEAD WITH 328JET PROGRAM - AvCraft Aviation secured refinancing with Maple Commercial Finance Group to fund the restart of the 328JET production and continue the rejuvenation of the program.

Speaking at the company's first appearance at the National Business Aviation Association Convention in Orlando, Fla. earlier this month, AvCraft President Ben Bartel said that refinancing was a critical objective for the company that has been working to bring back the Dornier 328JET since early this year when AvCraft purchased the program out of bankruptcy (BA, Feb. 10/61). Maple specializes in asset-backed financing packages for non-U.S. assets. The partnership between AvCraft and Maple may extend to additional financing opportunities with certain AvCraft vendors and prospective buyers of the 328, Maple said.

AvCraft finished up the acquisition last month, finally getting the rights to the Dornier name, type and production certificates and the Dornier 428 after a "very difficult course," according to Bartel. The whole acquisition process took about 10 months from start to finish. AvCraft now is devoting its attention to restarting production at its facility in Oberpfaffenhofen, Germany and addressing maintenance and parts support issues to build credibility for the aircraft.

Bartel said 75 percent of the 18 whitetails that AvCraft acquired in the bankruptcy transaction were sold with the expectation that the remaining aircraft would be sold during the NBAA convention. AvCraft delivered the first of those 18 to Hainan Airlines of China on Aug. 18. The delivery was part of an eight-aircraft order from the airline, which already operates 19 Dornier 328JETS.

AvCraft still has five airplanes on the assembly line that are between 20 and 80 percent complete. The company is working out a deal with Pratt & Whitney Canada for loaner engines on those aircraft while waiting for new PW306B powerplants. Pratt & Whitney has said that it needs about a year's lead time to provide new engines. With new funding in place, AvCraft is targeting a restart of production by the end of this year with first delivery of aircraft manufactured under AvCraft in the second quarter of 2004.

On the sales end, AvCraft has 45 orders and options for the 328, of which about 85 percent are airline customers and 15 percent non-airline. The company hopes to get a certain number of those options converted to firm orders by the end of November.

--B2707SST
Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
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RE: 328JET And 728 Update

Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:53 am

Ouboy79, that´s a strange comment from you, so because someone is nice you should ignore serious errors made? New Zealand $ isn´t the first thing that pop into my mind when I see the US$-sign.
Best of luck to the Dornier-Fairchild project and I hope they got their deals in
€uro not US$...
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
venuscat2
Posts: 461
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 1:44 am

RE: 328JET And 728 Update

Sun Oct 26, 2003 12:30 pm

What US airlines are looking into buyig the 728? Is YX considering it? I heard they were planning on buying a 428 JET to complement the 328 JET fleet, but I guess that got cancelled.
 
Flying-Tiger
Topic Author
Posts: 3923
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: 328JET And 728 Update

Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:13 pm

@ Venuscat2: Skyways Express even had 5 firm orders on the 428JET when it was cancelled - leaving them high and dry and finally with an order for 20+20 ERJ-140 which will likely never see the light of the day. Fairchild-Dornier had to pay a high price to get out of the 428JET commitment, effectively they had to give YX several 328JET for free.

@ Alessandro: it was me with the Kiwi-$$ comment - I´m currently in Kiwi-Country for some time and believe me - you can get mixed up with different currencies QUITE fast.

2 things I noticed:
- AvCraft has sold 14 328JET white-tails so far: 8 to Hainan, 2 to Aero-Dienst, makes 10. Who has placed orders for the other 4 whitieeeeees?
- the have 45 orders and options for the 328JET as far as I can understand this article - who are the customers when about 35 of them are airline ordered?

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20