bowen0614
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 3:39 pm

Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:09 pm

Hello all,

I would like to know why does Air Canada install PTV for Economy class on their long-haul aircrafts?

Bowen
 
GuyBetsy1
Posts: 808
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:00 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:13 pm

You mean you'd like to know why AC doesn't install PTV for economy class?

Two words: Too Expensive.

Cheers.
 
bowen0614
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 3:39 pm

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:15 pm

But their price is way high while comparing with other airlines.

for example, the price for cathay pacific fly YVR-HKG-YVR during christmas is CAD$1800. Air Canada is asking the same price also!! So, which airline will you choose then, one with PTV and one without PTV? And they are same price!!! Same departure time!!

Bowen
 
Cathay Pacific
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Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 1:29 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:21 pm

Isn't AC losing $$ at the moment?

btw...it's nice to see you here!  Smile
cathay pacific, now you're really flying
 
bowen0614
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 3:39 pm

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:28 pm

Oh yea, you're right. AC is losing money. That's why they have to lowered their price a bit and attrack more people to fly them.

Nice to meet you also, Cathay Pacific. Do I know you somewhere?

Bowen
 
9V-SPK
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:53 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Even so, their flights out of HKG are always full. Friend of mine who flies AC all the time told me that flights are quite full, and the last time he flew HKG - YVR, he got offloaded, but in compensation he was offered an upgrade to J on the next flight or 1500 HK dollars in cash.

Not sure if flights on CX are full or not, but assume they are, passengers would tend to choose AC. On another note, JAL is also a very hot airline to fly to YVR from HKG, though not a direct flight.
Best Regards
 
Cathay Pacific
Posts: 1715
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RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:32 pm

Perhaps AC is full because people can't get a seat with CXBig grin

Bowen,
I'm the same CX from your site! Big grin Big grin
cathay pacific, now you're really flying
 
bowen0614
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 3:39 pm

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:35 pm

Cool~ Nice to meet you here also.

Well...I am booking a flight with Cathay Pacific....and one flight is still on waitlist. But the AC flights are confirmed already. However, I will still wait for the CX flight first.

Bowen
 
PER744
Posts: 397
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RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:59 pm

A few months ago (and quite probably even now) Air Canada listed 'tray tables' as a feature of their aircraft. Wow, that really differentiates them from every other airline  Wink/being sarcastic
 
Cathay Pacific
Posts: 1715
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 1:29 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 5:14 pm

They still is!  Wow! Wow! Wow!

Hospitality Service- International

Product Features In-Flight

Pillows and blankets
Duty-Free boutique service
Tray table at each seat
Individual reading light
Multi-lingual service according to route
cathay pacific, now you're really flying
 
flying lsd
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2001 1:30 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 5:19 pm

just a very poor service.
Crew don,t know what they serve.
Sunday night on YUL FRA : chicken or pasta.
I ask pasta : it's salmon.
Friday morning on the FRA YUL, chicken or beef : sorry no beef.
The snack before arrival at YUL a piece of pizza on the tray with no knifes or fork.
An for the grand final 44 overbooked people on 297 passagers.
Great AC , continuing like that and I wish a fabulous CH 7 after CH11
 
behramjee
Posts: 4367
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 5:29 pm

I fly BA and AF trans-atlantic and CX transpacific from YYZ solely because of them providing PTVs in all Eco class seats on all long haul aircraft + theyre anyday better than AC and sometimes price wise too. I would anyday pay up to $ 100 more for a PTV in coach on a 7-12 hour nonstop flight.

AC got their A 343s from the mid 90s so they could have if they wanted to install PTVs in their new 343s and 333s when they ordered them...BUT NO THEY FAILED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT.

LH is another airline that doesnt have PTVs in coach of its B 744s and A 343.
 
lymanm
Posts: 1100
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:30 pm

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:40 pm

I simply do *NOT* understand the fetish found on A.net for PTVs...You all undoubtably have TVs at home, what's the big deal about TV in an airplane????
buhh bye
 
nethkt
Posts: 1014
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2001 10:27 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:51 pm

TG is another good airline that still has no PTV.

I think the service on SQ, EK, TG, CX and MH are quite the same. But the competition comes to who has better/advanced PTV system.

SQ wins it all as they have Audio Video on demand. I love it on SQ so I flew them to Australia, San Francisco, London in the past 2 years.  Smile
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
User avatar
BNE
Posts: 2922
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RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 8:28 pm

I simply do *NOT* understand the fetish found on A.net for PTVs...You all undoubtably have TVs at home, what's the big deal about TV in an airplane????

Most longhauls we are talking about 10-14 hours, what are you going to do for that length of time. For a short flight PTVs are not necessary but for long trips, it takes away the boredom.

Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
AF-A319
Posts: 567
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 1999 3:18 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 10:25 pm

Since the start of the Milton era, AC has always had a very arrogant attitude.

It was Milton's strategy to simply try to meet the minimum level of customer expectations, and to leave to other airlines the opportunity to exceed them... now we can see that this strategy didn't pay off!


I know that his argument was that LH didn't have PTVs either... but when you consider the high level of service you get on LH, you get a very different picture!

Good luck to the new investors to try to find a new positionning for the airline!

 
airbazar
Posts: 7117
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 10:58 pm

PTV's are overated and airlines are finding out that hardly anyone chooses a flight based on the availability (or not) of PTVs. In fact, when all things are equal I'll choose the one without PTVs 'cause I value the leg room a lot more than mediocre entertainment.
 
jeffrey1970
Posts: 1243
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RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Tue Oct 07, 2003 11:59 pm

PER744,

That is funny about listing tray tables as a feature ha ha ha ha. What's next? are they going to list seats as a feature? ha ha ha

God bless through Jesus,

Jeff
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:20 am

I'm sure Jesus blesses airlines with PTV's more than those without.

PTV's do make the time go by faster, that's for sure. But I have to say, from my experience, AC is very good, with excellent legroom in Y class, plus in my opinion, very good service on long-haul flights.

Oh, and they served a slice of pizza without giving a knife and fork? Shame on AC!
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
Goose
Posts: 1771
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RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:33 am

Since the start of the Milton era, AC has always had a very arrogant attitude.

It was Milton's strategy to simply try to meet the minimum level of customer expectations, and to leave to other airlines the opportunity to exceed them... now we can see that this strategy didn't pay off!


You're almost there; I think that AC, after gleefully absorbing CP, figured they didn't need to stretch themselves in order to serve their customers better. I mean, what choice did Canadians have now?

Well, that tactic came back to bite them in the ass. AC's domestic network is facing some stiff competition (WestJet primarily, followed by CanJet, JetsGo, etc.), and foreign rivals are edging in on their international routes. The former AC business plan of using a dominant position to "handle" the Canadian airline market simply did not work - and they found out that the little things do count, not just getting you from A to B. WestJet has made its name in the Canadian domestic market based on "the little things." Foreign carriers have found out that "little things" like PTV and more legroom do matter, especially when their ticket prices are comparable (or even less) than Canada's "flag carrier."

Personnally, I hope they fix their problems and get themselves back on their feet before more AC employees lose their jobs.

[Edited 2003-10-07 17:36:26]
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:33 am

AF-A319

I do have to agree with you the level of service offered by LH compared to AC or for that matter US carriers is like night and day. Also the length of flights I myself would want the ability to pick and chose how I spend my time.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
flying lsd
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2001 1:30 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:43 am

legroom in Y is poor, very poor, the staff unfriendly, it's just a kind of low cost on int'l sector.
I say at the check-in during my overbooking problem that they maybe think to launch their ZIP brand acroos all network !!!!
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:48 am

How is legroom in Y very poor if it's among the best in the industry? Better than most if not all the Europeans? Some people just invent things to say about Air Canada. What airlines have equal or better legroom in Y? You can probably name 3 or 4 at the most.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
lymanm
Posts: 1100
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:30 pm

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:51 am

"SQ wins it all as they have Audio Video on demand. I love it on SQ..."

Last time I checked, AC has never departed off a closed runway.

Come on people, let's look at what *really* matters.
buhh bye
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:34 am

Oh c'mon flying isd, I really really wanna know which airlines have more legroom than Air Canada, who you mentioned had very very poor legroom! I can only think of 2 or 3 that might have equal. Please inform us! Thanks in advance.  Smile
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:43 am

The snack before arrival at YUL a piece of pizza on the tray with no knifes or fork.

Here in the US the few people who eat pizza with forks are usually those with braces.  Smile I don't know about Canada, but that's probably why there were no utensils.
 
SafeFlyer
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 6:41 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:59 am

AC has no PTVs in Y-class for an obvious reason, they are under the CCA (the equivalent of Ch. 11 in the US and administration in the UK, please note that neither Chapter 7 or 11 exists in Canada). Howewer, the A330s have PTVs in J-class and I believe some 763 have them too. On other a/c such as the A340, you get portable DVD players (just like on Air India Big grin but with batteries)

Flying Isd, I won't even take the time to argue

just a very poor service.
Crew don't know what they serve.
Sunday night on YUL FRA : chicken or pasta.
I ask pasta : it's salmon.
Friday morning on the FRA YUL, chicken or beef : sorry no beef.
The snack before arrival at YUL a piece of pizza on the tray with no knifes or fork.


You should note that AC on their website clearly states: "Sorry If your choice is not available due to previous passenger selection". As for the choice, the crew may had had the wrong information when the meals were loaded and didn't notice, If I were you, I'd be glad that the FA didn't open the meals before they served it to the passengers.

I found AC's legroom to be very good even on "domestic" 763, better than most European and American carriers, especially that AA for instance has cancelled it's "more room threw coach program". As for the crews, it really depends, they have some very good ones, some extremely bad, not pretty, unprofessional ones too, but the "skyhags" as Neil likes to call (like many large carriers) them were the most friendly FAs I have encountered on an AC flight.
 
Goose
Posts: 1771
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:40 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:03 am

As for the crews, it really depends, they have some very good ones, some extremely bad, not pretty, unprofessional ones too, but the "skyhags" as Neil likes to call (like many large carriers) them were the most friendly FAs I have encountered on an AC flight.

The best AC crews - in terms of service and being pleasant to deal with - I've come across, have been made up of ex-CP employees. I guess that's the difference in corporate culture.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
AF-A319
Posts: 567
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 1999 3:18 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:19 am

I think Goose made a good point by underlining the cultural differences between ex-CP employees and AC staff...

And I think that Milton and his team didn't understand that so well... While Milton have done a very good job in terms of operation efficiency (in the field or operation research), this guys is a technocrat who has a very bad picture of what management is all about : people, people, and people!

A merger is usually the hardest thing to handle as a CEO. You have to make two antagonist groups of people work together as a team. Milton failed, and that resulted, among many other factors, in the banckruptcy of the airline...

Anyway, i look forward to seeing if the new s/h will introduce a new management team, and how these people will re-position the airline!
 
bowen0614
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 3:39 pm

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:19 am

It seems that AC is now going to take back the domestic market by lauching some low-cost airlines.

I have tried on ZIP, the legroom is better than WestJet. But the crews are not as friendly as WestJet does! You can still smell the AC atmosphere in ZIP.
 
AF-A319
Posts: 567
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 1999 3:18 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:32 am

West Jet has got a big big competitive advantage : its culture!

This culture helps westjet who achieve more with less... i don't really see how AC could cope with that.

The more I'm thinking about AC, the more i come to this conclusion : AC, as an organization, has a big big big disease... and it's not by renegociating its debt that it will cope with that!
 
Goose
Posts: 1771
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:40 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 7:03 am

A merger is usually the hardest thing to handle as a CEO. You have to make two antagonist groups of people work together as a team. Milton failed, and that resulted, among many other factors, in the banckruptcy of the airline...

I think CP and AC take "antagonist" to a different level; AC hated CP, and CP didn't much care for AC in return. When CP started moving towards merger with Air Canada, many AC employees plastered stickers of "Our Pride, Our Success" around airport ramp ready-rooms, lounges, and in the pits of CP aircraft. That certainly didn't help "good feelings" go around.

Milton also failed in the fact that many divisions exist amongst the former employees of CP and the employees of AC - to the point where some stations have seperate lunchrooms for ex-CP and AC employees, because of the fact that there have been altercations between the two groups. How can an airline truly help to move forward with such scisms?

Anyway.... WestJet definately has an advantage with its corporate culture, being service-oriented and customer-friendly, much like CP was back in the day.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 7:09 am

Here's something that beats a PTV hands down...a book. It can be fiction, non-fiction, funny or serious, and if you nod off on a long flight, you can pick up right where you left off.
 
PER744
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 11:38 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:04 am

GoingBoeing: I've generally found that on a 14 hour flight, you reach a point about halfway in where your brain can no longer handle reading a book, and you have no choice but to resort to mindless entertainment such as movies and tv.

PTV's definitely make a long haul flight much more bearable and seem a lot shorter.
 
CanadaEH
Posts: 1331
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 5:53 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:59 am

I have a few comments here..

PTV's are overated and airlines are finding out that hardly anyone chooses a flight based on the availability (or not) of PTVs. In fact, when all things are equal I'll choose the one without PTVs 'cause I value the leg room a lot more than mediocre entertainment.

To put things into perspective; after JetBlue had LiveTV installed, their load factor jumped more than 10%. When Frontier had PTV (or LiveTV?) installed, their load facor jumped 7%. So to say that LiveTV or PTV doesn't attract passengers is a lie!

From a financial point-of-view, for every 1% gain in load factor, Westjet will earn an additional $1 million dollars per aircraft per year. That translates into a HUGE gain in revenue.

In my opinion, there are only three true low-cost carriers in Canada - Westjet, Jetsgo, and Zip. If you don't count Zip as a low-cost carrier, fine, but Air Canada seems to think that Zip is so let's go with it. If you want to choose your flight based on fares, Westjet and Jetsgo are realistically your only choices (if AC emerges from CCAA Zip will have to offer fares it can afford to charge, and those fares will be higher than both Westjet and Jetsgo). If you want to choose comfort, Westjet will offer leather seats with 32" of legroom on a brand new aircraft, Zip will offer old cloth seats with 32" to 33" of legroom on an old aircraft, and Jetsgo offers cloth seats with an unknown (as per website) amount of legroom on an old aircraft. If you're going for entertainment, Westjet will be the only airline out of the three that offers LiveTV (or any entertainment for that matter).

It seems that AC is now going to take back the domestic market by lauching some low-cost airlines.

Zip is being branded as Air Canada's low-cost carrier. Zip is doing miserably (even after offering flights at fares waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay below the price needed to break even). Air Canada will have a VERY hard time "taking back the domestic market".

My 2 cents.
EH.
 
Airbus Lover
Posts: 3163
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RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:08 am

AC has PTVs in Executive on their A340s. The recline was really great! Legroom was nothing to complain about. Service was generally fine.

Nonetheless, not having PTVs in Economy, I would say is a "weakpoint" sometimes. PTVs are really good at burning time. It doesn't really matter AVOD or not, at least you get some movies to watch right?
 
hkniceguy
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2001 12:53 pm

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:59 pm

There is no surpise to see PTVs and more legroom in AC Executive Class... Because this is the industry standard out there! While other airlines impress passeneger with thier very own new and unique product, AC has nothing to show off to thier competiter and they are not going anywhere like this~ Very soon, WestJet's 737-700 will undergo PTV installation. Is a shame for the whole AC term and thier LCC. No matter because of thier service level or company structure or thier "mean staff".

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hkniceguy
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RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:15 pm

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myk
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 8:56 pm

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:26 pm

The JAL looks a little bit old. But you have also do add the LH ! without PTV's.
 
bowen0614
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 3:39 pm

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:33 pm

I cannot imagine how my 13 hours flight will be if I am flying AC. No PTV, I have to bring something else to entertain myself.

That's why I am still waiting on CX.

My 2 cent
 
myk
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 8:56 pm

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:41 pm

Bring a sleeping pill.

I flew this year wit OS from VIE to YYZ. Ok, its fine to have PTS, but with the lousy seatpitch, the flight is really not a joy.
If I had the choice between more space and PTV's I choose the first. Obviously, both would be better.

I remember this winter on AC from YUL to CDG, no lights at all, no screens, nothing and the most unfriendly F/A...They don't care ! I will never fly again with AC.
 
Airbus Lover
Posts: 3163
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2000 10:29 pm

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:42 pm

Hknice guy,

I made my comparison in respect to other airlines' business class. The recline is definitely better than that of JL's Skyluxe seats. Comparable to MH's!
 
Cessna172RG
Posts: 642
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 8:31 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:15 pm

My Air Canada experiences have always been good...

Salmon in coach, footrests, etc. No PTV's though, but oh well. I was shopping for price. Flights included YVR-HNL, Maui-YVR, SEA-YVR-NRT, NRT-YVR-SEA.

When I flew on Air Canada the first time, about a year ago, it was the first time that I didn't take Northwest, Continental, US Air, KLM, or Alaska. I noticed this:

More legroom
Better food (SALMON!!! AND IT WAS VERY GOOD!!!)
Good inflight service
Nonstop beverages  Smile

So, I was fairly satisfied. However, the Air Canada flight from Maui to Vancouver was checked in by United and catered by them, so the food was crap and check in was bad. They lost one piece of luggage.

No PTV's, I know. But I like to sleep on flights.

Now, recently I flew SQ from LAX-NRT, and returned three months later. THOSE PTV's MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE!!! I didn't sleep on the flight, because there were so many programs to watch. All the top movies, Matrix 2, the Jim Carey god flick, an East German movie, lots of stuff. Plus, comedy sitcoms, cartoons, news, video games, music, I could go on and on and on. There was like 200 hours of entertainment on a 10 hour flight. It was superb. Plus, SQ's international service...it just can't be beat at all.

In december, I will take Jet Blue from SEA-JFK-MCO for less than $200 bucks for a round trip ticket and I can't wait to see what their PTV's are about. That's why I chose Jet Blue. Not Northwest (getting a little tired of a four hour flight of twiddling my thumbs and having to pay for drinks), not Continental (I don't like 737s), not US Airways, but Jet Blue. I'm excited.
Save the whales...for dinner!!!
 
myk
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 8:56 pm

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:20 pm

When there are no PTV's, I defenitly prefer a Geovision show (Air show). Its much better than a boring film or documentary.

Its really sad, I often fly from Germany to Canada, and the only two BIG airlines without PTV's are LH and AC. really annoying !
 
Goose
Posts: 1771
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:40 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:51 pm

Zip is being branded as Air Canada's low-cost carrier. Zip is doing miserably (even after offering flights at fares waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay below the price needed to break even). Air Canada will have a VERY hard time "taking back the domestic market".

Considering that AC still holds a majority of the Canadian domestic market, what's to take back? They did hold a larger market share for only a year or two, between the CP merger and the rise of WestJet - and I read somewhere that WS is now nearing the domestic capacity of CP, before CP was bought out in 2000.

Zip was started right in WestJet's backyard, designed to compete directly with WestJet - and run by the former CEO of WestJet, whom Air Canada tapped especially for the job. But they didn't count on the fact that quite a few westerners view Air Canada as a monopolistic, predatory company which has consistantly tried to push under, around or push out Western-based airlines - whether it be WardAir, Pacific Western, CP Air, Canadian Airlines and now WestJet. In turn, they'll stay away from Air Canada and its ilk in favour of other alternatives.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
CanadaEH
Posts: 1331
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 5:53 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Thu Oct 09, 2003 1:09 am

By the end of the year, Westjet will have a larger domestic share than Canadian ever had.. pretty cool eh?

EH.
 
Goose
Posts: 1771
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:40 am

RE: Why Isn't There Any PTV On Air Canada?

Thu Oct 09, 2003 1:15 am

By the end of the year, Westjet will have a larger domestic share than Canadian ever had.. pretty cool eh?

The numbers I saw indicated that WS' share was comparable to CP's last days as an independant carrier; I don't know if anyone is counting the parked aircraft and cut routes CP instituted as part of its restructuring, for five years prior to their being bought out. I suppose it's really six of one, half a dozen of the other.....  Smile

It's still an impressive feat for WS, having only been around for seven years.
"Talk to me, Goose..."

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Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos