BR715-A1-30
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AirTran Denied Right To Fly O/w With LifeVests?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:07 am

I heard this from a flight attendant that because of the engine problems, AirTran has been denied by the FAA the right to fly OVERWATER with Lifevests. AirTran even had safety cards printed but then the FAA denied it, so now Safety Cards are just floating around with Life Vests. I didn't realize the BR715s were such pains.
Puhdiddle
 
Flyer732
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RE: AirTran Denied Right To Fly O/w With LifeVests?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:17 am

I'm not sure what engine problems have to do with an aircraft carrying life vests.
 
elwood64151
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RE: AirTran Denied Right To Fly O/w With LifeVests?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:19 am

Uh, why couldn't they fly with life vests? I think she probably meant without life vests. AirTran flies to FPT every day from BWI and ATL.

Still, I don't think any airline is allowed to fly over water without some kind of floatation device...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
gigneil
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RE: AirTran Denied Right To Fly O/w With LifeVests

Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:20 am

I think they're indicating that they'd need rafts.

N
 
Flyer732
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RE: AirTran Denied Right To Fly O/w With LifeVests?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:20 am

The seat cushion can be used in the event of a water landing.

We haven't carried life vests thus far because on both ATL-FPO and BWI-FPO the aircraft is at no point more than 30 minutes from land, thus they were not needed.
 
CO2BGR
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RE: AirTran Denied Right To Fly O/w With LifeVests?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:24 am

The flights to FPT havent been canceled, so I think it will be ops as usual. Something must have gotten mixed up somewhere as Elwood said.
There are too many self indulgent weiners in this town with too much bloody money" Randal Raines- Gone in 60 Seconds
 
travatl
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RE: AirTran Denied Right To Fly O/w With LifeVests?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:43 am

Whoa, whoa, whoa.....

AirTran petitioned to fly FURTHER over water than simply having seat cushions allows (up to 50 miles). I believe with life vests, carriers can fly up to 160 miles off the coast, and still not have rafts.

There are indeed aircraft flying now that have life vests on them (I worked aboard ship 701 yesterday that has them). HOWEVER, I do not believe we have been denied the opportunity to do so. In fact, I'm fairly certain we've already gotten approval. The pilots have been trained, the flight attendants have been trained, and the aircraft are undergoing installation of vests. AirTran wouldn't have gone through the added expense if that were the case. And I hate to say it, but I doubt any of my F/A colleagues know what their talking about. Our captain yesterday was commenting that all they were waiting on was it to be added to their ops specs of their manuals.

As for the engine problems....huh? I think this is either a speculative, disgruntled flight attendant, or more likely a specualtive a.net poster.

Travis
 
jeffrey1970
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RE: AirTran Denied Right To Fly O/w With LifeVests?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:59 am

So what would happen if a flight crashed to or from the Bahamas (God forbid)? I thought all flights that flew over water at a certain point have to have life vest and rafts.

God bless through Jesus with love,

Jeff
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
Ops48
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RE: AirTran Denied Right To Fly O/w With LifeVests?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:37 am

FAR §121.340 Emergency flotation means.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate an airplane in any overwater operation unless it is equipped with life preservers in accordance with §121.339(a)(1) or with an approved flotation means for each occupant. This means must be within easy reach of each seated occupant and must be readily removable from the airplane.

(b) Upon application by the air carrier or commercial operator, the Administrator may approve the operation of an airplane over water without the life preservers or flotation means required by paragraph (a) of this section, if the air carrier or commercial operator shows that the water over which the airplane is to be operated is not of such size and depth that life preservers or flotation means would be required for the survival of its occupants in the event the flight terminates in that water.
 
rumorboy
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RE: AirTran Denied Right To Fly O/w With LifeVests?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:43 am

Actually Airtran did get the approval for over water ops. But they want an exemption to it. I don't know what the exemption is but its important enough to where Airtran won't put into the op specs yet. It has nothing to do with the BR715s. Although they were problems when they first came. But when you have 99.5% dispatch reliability for 2 years straight I would hardly call it a problem. I think that F/A had her facts wrong. From what I understand it will cut the block times down to Florida and Bahamas a lot from BWI and PHL once we get into the op specs. Saving a lot of money.
 
BR715-A1-30
Topic Author
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RE: AirTran Denied Right To Fly O/w With LifeVests?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:31 am

I'm just telling you what I heard. I'm not making any of this up. Hence the QUESTION MARK in the topic.

[Edited 2003-10-07 22:31:47]
Puhdiddle
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: AirTran Denied Right To Fly O/w With LifeVests?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:20 am

This is my understanding:

AirTran petitioned the FAA last year for permission to fly extended overwater (not ETOPS) and prepared to install passenger lifevests in addition to the flotation cushions and crew lifevests already in place. This would allow the 717s to fly a more direct routing from the Northeast to Florida and would reduce time and fuel usage. Apparently there were some concerns about the BR17s reliability because they are a new engine and in service with only a handful of airlines. It is my understanding that unscheduled maintenance has been higher than expected but there has only been one inflight shutdown that I am aware of. The pilots have been keeping additional logs documenting real-time temperatures, oil usage, fuel burn, etc. Apparently everything is fine now because the entire fleet will have the life vests (and new red Safety Cards) installed by the end of this month.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
BR715-A1-30
Topic Author
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RE: AirTran Denied Right To Fly O/w With LifeVests?

Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:54 am

THANK YOU GR8SLVRFLT!!!!!, That is exactly what I was TRYING to say, but I guess my way of speaking got tangled.

However, you are wrong about only ONE Unscheduled Engine Shutdown

Shutdown #1 (Ship 763, N991AT)
http://av-info.faa.gov/isdr/LongFormView.asp?vB=IE&ocn=AT0300005

Shutdown #2 (Ship 724, N965AT)
http://av-info.faa.gov/isdr/LongFormView.asp?vB=IE&ocn=AT030003

Shutdown #3 (Ship 724, N965AT OPPOSITE ENGINE)
http://av-info.faa.gov/isdr/LongFormView.asp?vB=IE&ocn=AT0200084

Shutdown #4 (Ship 708, N947AT)
http://av-info.faa.gov/isdr/LongFormView.asp?vB=IE&ocn=AT0200088

Shutdown #5 (Ship 705, N944AT)
http://av-info.faa.gov/isdr/LongFormView.asp?vB=IE&ocn=AT0200081

Shutdown #6 (Ship 719, N959AT)
http://av-info.faa.gov/isdr/LongFormView.asp?vB=IE&ocn=AT0200075

Shutdown #7 (Ship 711, N951AT)
http://av-info.faa.gov/isdr/LongFormView.asp?vB=IE&ocn=AT0200070

Shutdown #8 (Ship 727, N968AT)
http://av-info.faa.gov/isdr/LongFormView.asp?vB=IE&ocn=AT0200003

Shutdown #9 (Ship 702, N940AT)
http://av-info.faa.gov/isdr/LongFormView.asp?vB=IE&ocn=AT0100177

Shutdown #10 (Ship 707, N946AT)
http://av-info.faa.gov/isdr/LongFormView.asp?vB=IE&ocn=AT0000236

Shutdown #11 (Ship 718, N958AT)
http://av-info.faa.gov/isdr/LongFormView.asp?vB=IE&ocn=AT0300015

As you can see to date AirTran has had 11 unscheduled engine shutdowns with the BR715s. No, this does not deter me from flying them, as I always will, but it does prove that the BR715 has some sort of BUG.



[Edited 2003-10-08 00:04:05]
Puhdiddle