US A333 PIT
Topic Author
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2001 8:36 am

Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:53 am

Why is the 767-300ER back on the ATL-HNL nonstop. Were they taking weight penalties so that it couldn't be optimally operated with the 767-400ERs? I was surprised to see this, as the 764 was operating it for a while. What's up here?
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:56 am

Sadly, this is only temporary. The FlyerTalkers are saying it has to do with pilot pool selection, as well as getting the rest area product on more aircraft.

The 764ERs will be flying the route again before year's end.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
caetravlr
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 8:19 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:00 am

ConcordeBoy,

Why is it "sad" that the 763ER being on that route is only temporary? I am sure it does have to do with the reconfiguring of the 764s, but I enjoyed flying on that aircraft as much as any other. I actually liked the headrests better for that long flight in coach.

Not arguing the point, just incredibly curious about that comment.

Regards,
CAETravlr
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5260
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:02 am

The 764 is very senior aircraft and recently DL had a large number of retirements by senior DL pilots (about 280). This created a pilot shortage for the 764 which is forcing DL to use the 763ER. The 764 should return in December.

Note: From a customers perspective, the 763ER is the preferable plane since the 763ER has Business Elite seating whereas the 764 has traditional First Class seating.
 
caetravlr
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 8:19 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:04 am

FlyPNS1,

You mean from an Elite, or First Class customers perspective it is a preferable aircraft then. You are right, the BizElite seats are very very nice, very preferable to the domestic FC seats. However, the bulk of the pax on the aircraft are on the other side of the curtain. I know that I had to fly that flight in coach, and thought the seats were fairly comfy, and appreciated a headrest with some head support. Helped me to sleep better on the flight. Just my personal opinion there though.
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:10 am

Why is it "sad" that the 763ER being on that route is only temporary?

Because the 763ER features BizE, while the 764ER does not.

Considering that ATL/CVG-HNL will be longer than ATL/CVG-CDG, that's a rather sad product inconsistency... but understandable considering that it's the Hawaiian market  Sad
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Fri Oct 10, 2003 9:54 am

CVG is supposed to get its first nonstop to HNL soon - I think Nov. 1 and it will be operated w/ the 764. All DL flights to Hawaii will be back to the 764 in December according to delta.com.

[Edited 2003-10-10 02:56:16]
 
behramjee
Posts: 4325
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:10 am

There will be HUGE demand for HNL by DL pax from Dec onwards till mid Jan so I would definitely expect their B 764s once again flying the route as the vast majority of pax will be flying eco class and not business/first!!! And the 764 has the much needed extra seats in eco to support the rise in demand!!!
 
futureualpilot
Posts: 2402
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:52 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:46 am

SOmeone said the DL 764 is a very senior a/c. Does this mean only the seinor 757/767 Captains and First Officers fly it, or like 777 senior?
Life is better when you surf.
 
SRD737NG
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:45 pm

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:07 am

764 is a separate list from the 75,762-3 pilot base, I'm almost certain of it. The 764 has many differences from the 762-3, most noticeably the cockpit layout. It is very similar to the 777 cockpit. I jumpseated on a DL 764 from HNL-LAX a few months ago and the captain made this remark to me --

"This thing is just a half-assed 777." He was more or less expressing his displeasure that his airline ordered it instead of more 777's. I found that humorous personally. I don't think he realized how good he has it flying that thing, collecting the paycheck that he collects.
 
futureualpilot
Posts: 2402
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:52 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:09 am

Does Dl then have pilotds for soley the 764, or are they 757/767 pilots type-rated in the 764?

Sorry to ask so many questions, Im just curious because despite my screename, I want to someday fly for DL.
Life is better when you surf.
 
KQ777
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 11:16 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:42 am

The First Class on the 764 is slightly superior to regular domesic First. For instance, it has a PTV at every First Class seat.
 
FLAIRPORT
Posts: 3863
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2000 10:46 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:53 am

i e-mailed a DL FA friend of mine and that is NOT the reason. All 757/767 pilots are crosstrained, so there is another reason, but what???
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
jayspilot
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:32 pm

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Fri Oct 10, 2003 12:39 pm

DAL pilots are trained on the 757/767,200,300,300er
the 400 is different, and the airline is trying to get 777 crews to be able to fly it with difference training, b/c it has such a similar cockpit lay out...
 
futureualpilot
Posts: 2402
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:52 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Fri Oct 10, 2003 12:44 pm

I would have thought DL would use their regular 757/767 crews on them, but I guess the flight deck on the 764 is closer to the 777. Thanks for the info.
Maybe the other reason you are wondering about Flairport, is just a seniority thing. Its a new plane, closer in size to the 777, similar lay-out so maybe the decided the most senior pilots fly it.

Life is better when you surf.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Fri Oct 10, 2003 12:57 pm

and the airline is trying to get 777 crews to be able to fly it with difference training, b/c it has such a similar cockpit lay out...

Depending on where the 777 crew came from, that may be impossible.

If they promoted up from the 75/76, so be it. But if they converted over from the MD-11 and the L-1011 prior to that, they don't have the right type rating.

The 767-400 only requires brief differences training for 75/76 pilots, but the 777 is a wildly different aircraft in all regards.

N
 
Bobs89irocz
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 4:52 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:16 pm

My flight instructors dad is was a captin on the DL 757/767. He is in training right now for the 764. That aircraft is in a leage of its own. Yeah it has it is comparable to the 777 cockpit but right now the 764 has its own separate flight crews.

Kind sucks huh?
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:15 pm

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Sat Oct 11, 2003 6:10 am

42 Delta 767-400 pilots retired last month. Is that really a big enough population to cause this change of equipment?
But that was when I ruled the world
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Sat Oct 11, 2003 6:48 am

"This thing is just a half-assed 777." He was more or less expressing his displeasure that his airline ordered it instead of more 777's.

Boeing as well wanted DL/CO to replace their trijets with 772As, but the airlines didn't agree.

Considering that their exclusivity contracts had recently been terminated, no doubt they dangled their newfound ability to order the A332 over Boeing's head, to get what they wanted.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
polnebmit
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:10 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Sat Oct 11, 2003 7:32 am

Is Delta ordering Airbus?
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Sat Oct 11, 2003 7:35 am

Nope.

The A310s are most likely the last Airbuses you'll see in DL's colors for a longgggg time to come  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
kl911
Posts: 3979
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Sat Oct 11, 2003 7:40 am


Maybe a stupid question, but how can a Business class be better then a First Class? If Domestic First Class is not the same as International First, why don't they call it Business Class?
 
bucky707
Posts: 954
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 2:01 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Sat Oct 11, 2003 8:37 am

"The A310s are most likely the last Airbusses you will see in DL's colors"


Wanna bet??
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2557
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Sat Oct 11, 2003 11:18 am

Kl911:

DL's BusinessElite is better than First Class because of personal space - superior in the current Business Class offering (UnitedBusiness-UA, BusinessFirst-CO, etc.) - this is a Superior offering because on the routes that this is usally offered (not Hawaii) - Business class sells - so there must be a competitive product offerred. Now (and into the future in my opinion) - First Class is just a perk for frequents and the occasional sale - and only used domestically. Further, if a airline sells First, Business, and Coach and companies have a 1-class upgrade for long flights - it will be Business that the company can buy. So that is what they will eventually offer a (the US-based airlines) 2 class configuration. AA and UA still have a three-class config for int'l flights, but we will see how long that lasts.

I personally like th DL 763-Biz config better than the 764 in both cabins for the following reasons:

Premium - The Business Elite seat and space is superior, no question.

Economy - The 764 has a total accomodation of 282 passengers (some of those in first) - very crowded the way DL equipps the aircraft and the 763 has a total accomodation of 190 - so there are less total people - making the boarding and deplaning take that much longer.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:21 pm

I'm willing to bet that if Boeing would have used 767-300 technology in the -400, it would have sold better due to commonality.
Puhdiddle
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:32 am

Wanna bet??

With someone who places a wager before reading/comprehending the last six words in a sentence?? Sure! Why not  Laugh out loud


The 764 has a total accomodation of 282 passengers

287


I'm willing to bet that if Boeing would have used 767-300 technology in the -400, it would have sold better due to commonality.

  • it does have about as much in common with the 763 as it can get, particularly since all parts are common, and the cockpit display can be modified to mimic the rest of the 757/767 family
  • the actual reasons the aircraft didn't sell are its shorter range (relative to the A332 competition); and its inability to load two LD3s abreast, which the A332 can

    [Edited 2003-10-11 18:35:31]
  • Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
     
    B4REAL
    Posts: 2557
    Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

    RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

    Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:45 am

    ConcordeBoy: My bad, type-o 287 for the B764
    B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
     
    ConcordeBoy
    Posts: 16852
    Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

    RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

    Sun Oct 12, 2003 2:06 am

    s'all good  Big grin

    Sad that DL's 3rd-largest aircraft is by far its largest-capacity  Sad
    Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
     
    calpilot
    Posts: 881
    Joined: Sun Oct 17, 1999 5:16 am

    RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

    Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:31 am

    I thought we had this covered?

    The B767-400 Type rating is the SAME as every other B767 or B757.

    DL splits the sub-base of pilots between the two groups -400's and all other B756's because they belived the difference warranted it.

    CO chose to train the whole B756 sub-base of pilots to fly all the B756 aircraft at the same time regardless of the differences.

    The -400 at present does NOT have the B737NG option of using standard insturmation on the LCD's at CO and DL. So the -400 cockpit looks like a triple7, while the rest of the B756 fleet looks the same.

    DL had many early retirements in Sept. that resulted in shortages in -400 crews.
     
    Guest

    RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

    Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:43 am

    Thanks for clearing that up, Calpilot.
     
    bucky707
    Posts: 954
    Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 2:01 am

    RE: Delta No Longer Using 764 On ATL-HNL

    Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:46 pm

    "Wanna bet??

    With someone who places a wager before reading/comprehending the last six words in a sentence?? Sure! Why not"


    I fully comprehend the last six words in your sentence, even though I did not copy them. I bet we will see and Airbus at Delta, and way before its been a longggg time.

    Who is online