SInGAPORE_AIR
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Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:46 pm

Cathay Pacific - Hong Kong SAR's de facto and largest airline - is understood to be interested in buying second hand planes.

"We've asked the market for information on the availability of used aircraft for purchase, so we can have a look for planning purposes," said some executive.

It is bad news for Boeing and Airbus as they fight it out for customers. "It makes it harder to sell new airplanes, so we've got to figure out how to sell new airplanes through packaging services or pricing," said Boeing spokesman Mark Hooper.

"Used commercial airplanes are currently selling for as low as one tenth the cost of new equipment due to a glut in supply, with some 2,000 aircraft sitting idle in holding grounds around the world, according to Mr Hooper."

More information at the Financial Times website
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
behramjee
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sat Oct 18, 2003 6:04 pm

I read that theyre looking for used B 744s only and no other aircraft type used.

They maybe too looking for used B 777s as now theyve gotten the rights from the relevant HKG and CHIN authorities to fly on their own to China so they probably need the extra aircrafts for their Chinese flights + peak winter season demand which may see numerous extra flights being added to Bali-SYD-MEL-LHR-NRT-BNE-BOM-DEL-DXB-BKK etc etc.
 
CX747
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sat Oct 18, 2003 9:48 pm

I believe that the only used aircraft they are looking for are 747-400s. One would think that British Airway's 747-400 fleet would be a good place to start. British Airways has tried to sell off some of its 747-400s for quite some time and the RR powerplants also match CX's needs. Interesting to see the 747 continueing to play a major part in CX's fleet when pundits continue to trumpet its removal.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
andrewtang
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sat Oct 18, 2003 10:52 pm

The intention to buy 2nd hand 744 is for Freighter conversion.
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sat Oct 18, 2003 10:57 pm

I don't care flying on a second hand aircraft, as long as it is comfortable (and I don't know why a second hand B744 of CX wouldn't be more comfortable than a B744 of SQ directly from Boeing).

CX has an extremely good service, hope to fly them some day soon!
 
Airbus_A340
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sat Oct 18, 2003 11:16 pm

Cathay is interested in buying over a dozen second hand B747-400's to join the fleet.

Airbus_A340
People. They make an airline. www.cathaypacific.com
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 12:26 am

Thanks SQ_air for bringing a smile to my face after reading the wording of your topic title. You never cease to amaze me.....or should I say, you have indeed ceased to amaze me?

The rumour is 14 or 15 ex-BA 744s, some of which would be freighters, some of which will replace four leased A340-300s due for return in 2006, and possibly even the A340-600s, as rumours are that those are going at the end of their leases. Will have to wait and see.
 
CX747
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 12:33 am

What is the reason behind the rumor of CX returning their new A340-600s? I am extremely happy to see a potential increase in 747-400s operating for Cathay!!!
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 12:54 am

The rumour goes that we are unhappy with the performance and the reliability, as well as the constant landing gear changes and weight problem. However, these are just rumours.
 
N79969
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:16 am

This is an interesting development. I wonder if this will light a fire under Boeing to develop a 744 successor/serious upgrade in the next few years. It seems clear to me that the niche is theirs if they choose to pursue it.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:23 am

some of which will replace four leased A340-300s due for return in 2006, and possibly even the A340-600s

That'd be nice... would love to see CX get rid of those pieces o' junk!

Though, that'd be about the 3rd time or so that nonstop HKG-JFK flopped during/before proposal  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:50 am

Concordeboy, can you please back up with facts that an A340 is 'a piece of junk'? You must be a very smart technical engineer to know that an A340 is not reliable, certainly in comparision with the B747.

Are you born with an anti-Airbus sentiment?

There is not any evidence behind your statement, a lot of airlines seem to be happy with the A340 family, so I don't see any problem.

The A332 is another aircraft of the Airbus family that proved it's reliability already. Yet we see that QF wants to take them of certain flights, and you know why? Because QF can't take advance of the performance of the A332 on those (I believe) short sectors (that's what I made up after reading a thread about this on here some time ago, I have no knowledge at all about the technical specifities of aircrafts so I can only say what I read over there). Maybe a B772/3 or B744 fits better on the sectors where CX is currently using the A340? Who knows?

Every new aircraft has it's problems. You think that Boeing had not any problem with the new B741, B772, B731 etc?
 
Udo
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:51 am

Concorde Boy,

thanks for another very informative statement...Don't wonder when nobody takes you serious any longer here since your postings only consist of standardized phrases without any piece of logical or proven content. Whenever the A340 issue comes up (no matter which kind of), you spill out your senseless negative comments on it. Permanently, continuously. One could almost think the A340NG is not a metal tube but a personalized subject which has hit you somewhere and you therefore hate it...have you also built some anti-posters or stickers like fanware to express your opinion to your neighborhood or in school?  Confused

Sorry for my irony, but to remain serious: why aren't you just able to bring up some facts concerning the A340NG? Not only me, but many people on this forum would like to hear arguments rather than thousand times the same childish remarks. I personally don't know the performance of the A340-500/600, but would be interested in getting more info. If you are the one to help me, you're welcome to do so. But I fear you are totally the wrong person able to provide facts...you seem to have way other talents as you have shown again and again...  Wink/being sarcastic


Btw, nice to hear Cathay is interested in more B744s. It's good BA won't send some of their aircraft to Arizona but to HKG instead. And it shows Cathay is growing again after the SARS crisis.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
behramjee
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:44 am

They want the B 744s for freighter conversions??? hmm...interesting but not surprising as cargo is a huge profitmaker for them especially in the SARS days and a few weeks after it ended too.

But if cargo is so important, then why didnt CX order many B 744 Combis? They would have the same 3 class seating capacity of an A 346 but carry twice as much cargo!!! BR-CI-KLM and OZ have a few B 744 Combis and love them.

I am surprised that major cargo airlines like BA-AF-LH-SQ-CX-JAL-ANA-KR did not order B 744 Combis...can someone tell me why?

Also I would advise AI to replace its 2 B 743 Combis with B 744 Combis!!!
 
CX747
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:54 am

Thank you for jumpstarting my memory. It has indeed been reported that CX is looking for 2nd hand 747-400s. Their intentions are to convert a few of these airframes into freighters and use the rest of the airframes as replacements for the A340-300s leased from China Airlines and remarkably the brand new A340-600s. Weight problems have plagued the A340-600 which is why Airbus is introducing and IGW version of the airframe. Hopefully for Airbus this will help.

As for future 747 models, Cathay Pacific has been linked to the 747 "Advanced" project. We shall see.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
artsyman
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 4:01 am

Oddly enough, I have now heard reliability issues from friends at both Virgin and CX. Apparently the plane is not getting close to the figures promised for perfomance or dispatch reliability. While this is somewhat to be expected with a new plane, it is apparently bad enough that they are both thinking of getting short of them.

Jeremy
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 4:08 am

Weight problems have plagued the A340-600 which is why Airbus is introducing and IGW version of the airframe.

Sorry, but what is an IGW version?

Regards
Frederic
 
CX747
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 4:11 am

Increased Growth Weight. Basically improving the capabilities of the aircraft and allowing it to have a greater payload capability/range.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 4:17 am

Thanks for the info!

Does this need a lot of modifications? Can it be done on the current active A346's?

Regards
Frederic
 
Ex_SQer
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 4:25 am

I am surprised that major cargo airlines like BA-AF-LH-SQ-CX-JAL-ANA-KR did not order B 744 Combis...can someone tell me why?

Combis can be a pain to handle on the ground. You need extra equipment to load/unload a combi, you sometimes have weight and balance issues (in extreme instances paxs are unable to deplane until cargo is off the aircraft), and it takes extra time on the ground, leading to delays for paxs, etc.
 
na
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 5:39 am

I would certainly be good news if one of my favoured airlines would be aquiring more of my favourite aircraft. All my flights with CX´s 744s have been a pleasure. And more than 10 of them is big news although I would be surprised if all would come from BA as this would seriously reduce the size of BA´s fleet.
I´m surprised that the A340-600 obviously has problems to meet its "paper figures". That wouldn´t be the first time for the A340 not to keep its intended goals. Is this just a rumour or can someone (except our "expert" ConcordeBoy) confirm this?
 
Jacques60
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:32 am

Sorry Behramjee, but AF did operate 744 combis , at least 5 of them still in the fleet namely F-GISA to SE. The trouble is that they fly in a full pax config...what a shame for a cargo guy like me !! The reason put forward was the difficulty to match Pax and Cargo needs : passenger division wanted to use combi for thin pax traffic and cargo mngmnt wanted them for heavy cargo segments ! This was already the case with the 742 combis (9 of them if my count is right) that AF used to have .
In terms of payload/revenue AF lost a lot of cargo potentiel when the B777 took over from 744M on a route like CDG/EZE . Full freighters cannot replace the combis in view of usually restricted traffic rights !
Rgds
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 11:51 am

Just in case some of you were wondering, Cathay is very satisfied with the A340-300, but the aircraft in our fleet is suited to long-thinner established routes, and developing new routes. The only Airbus routes to Europe are AMS, and ROM (Which is only half the year). Eventually these will be 2x 744s and unless new routes are launched to Europe, the A340 won't be going much. JNB is currently A340 for 6 months and 744 for 6 months. Eventually, this too can be all 744. If we ever get LHR-JFK, this will also be 744. Cathay needs more 744s and the A340s are required less. This is the reason the A340-300s are going back off lease. There is nothing wrong with them. However this is just the plan, and if things pick up the A340s may stay. The plan is to bolster the routes we already have, and launching new routes (apart from China) is not the priority. If anything we need more 777s and A330s, as the long haul aircraft are featuring less and less on our regional network.

After all, a mere year and a bit ago, the plan was to return 744s, and now we are looking for more. In aviation, plans change quickly.
 
CX747
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:16 pm

It is interesting that as CX Flyboy said, the 747-400 fleet was going to be reduced last year! CX, how is life on the line with the 777? Any new news on that airframe? Also, what timeframe is CX looking to acquire the 747s in?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
BN747
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand

Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:43 pm

I am completely floored that a plane just a few months old is seriously being considered for disposal...what's happening with the A340-600 sounds a lot like what happened with Singapore Airlines and it's A340-300s. I don't care how you look at it....but if this is true..this is not a good sign for the A346. I'd be sh*ttin' bricks if I was the lead sales guy at Toulouse!


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
bkkair
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:20 pm

This was posted a few days ago in the HK Standard, about converting used 744's to freighters...

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/thestandard/news_detail_frame.cfm?articleid=42579&intcatid=1

Cathay Pacific Airways and Hong Kong Dragon Airlines (Dragonair) were united last night in welcoming Boeing's decision to launch its long-awaited passenger-to-freighter conversion programme for Boeing 747-400 jumbo jets.

Both airlines have plans to buy aircraft for conversion, while Cathay Pacific is mulling the possibility of changing some of its older 747-400 passenger planes into all-cargo aircraft.

The move is also a welcome boost for Taikoo (Xiamen) Aircraft Engineering (Taeco), in which Cathay Pacific has a stake and which is also indirectly owned by Swire Pacific.

This follows confirmation by Boeing that Taeco, 49.6 per cent owned by Swire offshoot Hong Kong Aircraft Engineering, will convert the first three aircraft. Boeing will provide detailed engineering design work and oversight, while Taeco will do the actual conversion.

Commenting on the launch of the programme, Cathay Pacific corporate development director Tony Tyler told The Standard: ``We have been talking to Boeing. We are very interested and clearly it is a good development. It provides another source for freighters and also prolongs the economic lives of all 747-400s.

``It is also good for Taeco's business as well.''

Dragonair chief executive Stanley Hui told The Standard: ``Yes, this is very good news for airlines which are interested in the 747-400 freighters.''

Dragonair is planning to buy or lease another five or six freighters by 2008. They are likely to be 747-400s that have been converted to freighters. But the airline has not decided whether to buy the passenger aircraft and then have them converted, or buy the planes already altered to an all-freighter configuration.

Announcing its conversion programme, Boeing senior vice-president Mike Cave said: ``There has been tremendous customer interest in Boeing offering a 747-400 passenger to freighter modification, and the customer knows that if it's a Boeing upgrade, designed and supported by Boeing, its the same quality as they can expect in a new plane.''

Boeing said the first airlines, which could include Cathay Pacific and Dragonair, would launch the 747-400 Special Freighter conversion programme this year. The first aircraft would enter service in late 2005.

The converted planes will have a large cargo side door with an internal layout that would be identical to newbuild 747-400 freighters and would be capable of carrying 113 tonnes about 7,600 kilometres.

The longer upper deck of the Special Freighter will include seating for up to 19 people.

 
AJ
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:27 pm

"Increased Growth Weight"

Close, but Increased Gross Weight.
 
ap305
Posts: 976
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand

Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:30 pm

The a340-600 in Virgin service has had a dispatch reliability averaging in excess of 98% in its first year(According to an Airbus story and normally manufacturers do not lie about these figures).The aircraft is probably going through some teething troubles that will be sorted out over the next couple of years.Could someone with inside knowledge comment on the landing gear issue?. Airbus i reckon would have probably sorted this out by now.As far as the weight problem goes i belive this is solved from sq's first a345 onwards.Aparently the weight of the wing has been reduced.The a340-600hgw will have a range of 14800kms(i saw these figures in an fi article a few months back).This is quite a handy advantage on longer missions vs the 777-300er.Let us not go about critisizing an aircraft when most information coming out seems to suggest it is doing very well.

Regards
ap305
 
AJ
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:44 pm

Edited due idiocy!
*
*
*

[Edited 2003-10-19 08:51:03]
 
B-HXB
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 4:03 pm

I understand the A340-300 can also take more cargo than the 744, which makes it an ideal aircraft to put on the HKG/AKL run.
 
cx773
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:45 pm

A340-600 can take more cargo than B747-400 but not A340-300.
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:03 pm

CX747,

Life is great on the 777. I don't think there is a single person who dislikes it. Pilots love it, cabin crew like it, engineers love it because they can come for a chat and drink coffee during turnarounds rather than rush around fixing things like when an Airbus does the flight. (Sorry, but true). The routes could be a little better though. I am starting to think of Bahrain and Dubai as second homes!
As for a timeframe for the 744 conversions,the article mentions first deliveries would be by late 2005. CX and BA are haggling over prices at the moment. The four A340-300s are due to leave in 2006, so if the deal is completed, I guess the aircraft would start arriving late next year to early 2005.
 
N79969
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Mon Oct 20, 2003 3:43 am

If the 346 has frequent landing gear problems and performance shortfalls, that creates a difficult problem. I am no engineer but if the landing gear seem to wear quickly, it seems like a more robust landing gear is the solution. But that presumably would add weight to the airplane and exacerbate the performance shortfall.

I am not quite sure how they could correct the performance shortfall, but I guess that may involve uprating the engines or adding fuel or both. But again it seems that added weight would worsen the landing gear problem.

Is this a correct view of the problems?

 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:24 am

Sabena 690 & Udo,

I have no admiration for A340s whatsoever, and have no qualms about expressing that.... but on a more serious note, you two cannot possible be so dim as to not (by this time) realize that the only reason whatsoever that I (or anyone else for that matter) continue to make such statements is because we know that hyper-sensitive types such as yourself will huff n' blush over them  Laugh out loud

Yes, I realize that A340s are decent aircraft, else less of them would be ordered/used than they currently are.


...as for me being anti-Airbus: if you haven't actually read my screenname; my favorite aircraft (to which Airbus is now the de facto manufacturer) as well as my third and fourth (A330 & A32x) are Airbuses.......... which makes your claim of myself as an anti-Airbus advocate more senseless than replies # 11 and 12 combined) Big grin

[Edited 2003-10-19 22:26:37]
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
N754PR
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Mon Oct 20, 2003 9:56 am

CX747,

Cathay have no A340's leased from CI.

Some of the BA 744's would be used to replace the A343's that are due to be returned to the leaser.
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
B-HXB
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:28 am

A340-600 can take more cargo than B747-400 but not A340-300

From the Airbus website:
After allowing for full passenger baggage in containers, the A330-200 offers space for five underfloor freight pallets, more than in its two nearest competitors.

This increases to eight pallets in the A330/A340-300, again beating the nearest competitor; and ten pallets in the A340-600 – twice the capacity of the 747-400.
 
n757kw
Posts: 395
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:39 am

Does anyone know what the payload for the B747-400SF would be? There is a lot of wasted space on the upper deck and the additional 96 inch pallets rather than 118 inch due to the streched upper deck.
"What we've got here, is failure to communicate." from Cool Hand Luke
 
gigneil
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:07 pm

The A340-600 meets.

It doesn't exceed, it meets.

In my organization when we have layoffs they line the "meets" up on one side and the "exceeds" on the other, and invite one whole line to go home forever.

Cathay's planes will never benefit from the lighter wing, but the other performance improvements are possible. The 3rd craft was delayed to have the improved gear installed, the other two could be refitted.

VS has been extremely pleased with theirs, as has SA. The Cathay rumor became a rumor literally the day the frame started flying... so I give it little credit.

Cathay needs to grow a pair. If AC can get a good uplift with a 343 YYZ-DEL, then there's absolutely no reason why CX couldn't whoop on CO aggressively on the NYC-HKG market with a 346.

N
 
artsyman
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:44 pm

VS has been extremely pleased with theirs
***********

This is not true at all, my contacts in Virgin are stating the exact opposite. The aircraft is not even close at the moment to operational reliability or financial targets that were promised by Airbus. As I said in an earlier post, this is somewhat understandable with a new aircraft, but apparently they are missing by a long distance at the moment.

Think about it this way, if the aircraft was doing well, you'd not see Virgin talking about 747-400 and 777 fleet additions, and the same applies to CX.

Jeremy
 
B2707SST
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Mon Oct 20, 2003 4:47 pm

Unless an airline demands four engines for ETOPS exemption (TG), then the 777LRs are simply better aircraft. As the figures above show, the Boeings can fly virtually identical pax loads over comparable or greater distances than the A345/A346 with about 50,000 pounds in weight savings. However, efficiency has to be balanced with acquisition cost, which undoubtedly works in Airbus' favor.

777-300ER flight testing proves that Boeing's traditional conservatism in their performance specs is paying off, while Airbus has, at the very least, scraped by - the overweight wings, landing gear problems, and certification delays are indicative of a development program pushed to the limits (recent Flight International and AvWeek articles make this point). The HGW versions of the A345 and A346 should solidify their performance figures with 200-300nm range increases, but Boeing is already testing even higher weights for the 777LRs to maintain their advantage. After the problems the A340 family has had, it will be interesting to see if the A380 meets its targets.

--B2707SST
Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
 
ap305
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand

Mon Oct 20, 2003 7:00 pm

Artysman, Virgin talking about 747s and 777s is most probably their way of trying to drive the price down on more 346s.There seems to be a genral impression among boeing devotees(am not pointing out anyone!) that airbus aircraft are unreliable.Dispatch reliability figures(even the ones that are on the internet by way of news stories)suggesst otherwise.Airlines like Emirates would not have ordered the a340-600 if the performance of the aircraft is as bad as people in this forum make it out to be.

Regards
ap305
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:28 am

Airlines like Emirates would not have ordered the a340-600 if the performance of the aircraft is as bad as people in this forum make it out to be

Not exactly.

EK was alongside SQ, AA, MH, QF, and NZ in pushing Boeing to develope a 772X. After problems with the proposed 104Klb thrust Trent800, and discovering that they'd have to wait another 2-3 years just for an engine variant of said bird.... they (and SQ) opted for A345. The latter four have yet to order C-market aircraft.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
artsyman
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RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:06 am

Artysman, Virgin talking about 747s and 777s is most probably their way of trying to drive the price down on more 346s
***********

While I agree that there is plenty of bashing on both airbus and Boeing that is often misplaced or overused, and I would also agree that the airlines use each company to drive down pricing, I would say that the sources I have in Virgin assure me that the A346 is becoming a bit of a lemon, and its reliability and operational figures are not good enough at all by a wide berth. As far as EK taking them, they paid for them, they are contracted to take them. Who knows if Airbus can change the performance specs, but at the moment they are having to add weight, not reduce weight so it may take them a while. The problems with the A346 have been documented all along during construction, testing and now we are getting confirmation of the problems from many sources within the airlines.

I, personally am not an Airbus basher or a Boeing basher, don't really have time for all that, but merely a messenger of the facts I am fed. There are numerous people on these boards that are in the position to know these facts, yet when people like CXflyboy who works as a pilot for CX commented on CX issues with the plane, you still get some spotty kids telling him he is wrong when he works with them. I remember 777gk saying that he had a 13 year old kid on here arguing with him about the auto-pilot function on the 777 (when he is a pilot on one, and the kid probably hasn't even seen one never mind been on one).

I have no reason to make up facts on the aircraft, nor does CX flyboy, nor many others on here. I think it is a beautiful looking plane, just that its specs at the moment are not up to expectations.
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:16 am

I just hope that the 346 won't go the same path as the MD11 - a beautiful plane that simply didn't do what it was supposed to...

People who know me know that I'm definately no Airbus-basher, but one thought has come to my mind repeatedly in the last years: why does Airbus frequently over-estimate the performance of their aircraft? Boeing's method of giving out conservative estimates that are, at the very least, easy to reach or, as has been the case a few times now, can be exceeded gives a much better impression of the development department of the company...

On the other hand - SAA doesn't seem to be unhappy about their A340-600s, or have I missed any statements in that direction?
Smile - it confuses people!
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:24 am

On the other hand - SAA doesn't seem to be unhappy about their A340-600s, or have I missed any statements in that direction?
*******

I tend to ignore things I read in the paper or on here when it comes to things like this. Basically unless I hear it from a reasonable source in the company, I never put any credence to the report. I don't know anyone at SAA, so I cannnot comment, although I would be surprised if their figures are any better than the others

Jeremy
 
ap305
Posts: 976
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2000 4:03 am

RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand

Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:41 pm

Artysman,I can assure iam not a "spotty kid " nor if you care to read my posts am i arguing with what cxflyboy is saying.The a340-600 includes various changes to its systems to build on the reasonably good dispatch reliability of the a340-300 which will show their results as the aircraft matures..Iam not questining your sources or their validity(theirs too much of that going around here!).Emirates for your infromation has made its decision quite a few months after the a340-600 went into service so it is fair to assume their technical department would have had information about how the aircraft is doing.So let me make it clear am not questioning the nature of your sources but everybody in this forum has right to make thier views and opinions known and that does not make them a "spotty kid".


Regards
ap305
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:50 pm

AP305,
None of my comments were directed at you, and I apologize to you if you felt that they were.

Jeremy
 
buckfifty
Posts: 1278
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 4:05 pm

RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:35 pm

Hehe, Cx Flyboy definitely has a bias against Airbus, that I know quite well.  Big grin

In terms of the company getting ex-744's from BA (as is the prevalent rumours going around the company now), I was out with a couple of senior BA cockpit crew over the weekend for one too many pints. It looks like, from their perspective, that they are keeping their 744's for the forseeable future, as passenger traffic picks up again. In fact, apparently, they're short of long haul capacity on their end.

However, it is good business sense if they can pick up those aircraft for prices as such, but they most likely will not be replacing the Airbuses currently in the fleet. For the future, any fleet additions will be adding onto the current base of aircraft to increase capacity, as I understand it.

It's odd, though, I have a gut feeling that this is all just a smokescreen...
 
ap305
Posts: 976
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2000 4:03 am

RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:40 pm

Jeremy no probs dude!  Big thumbs up ,we all are in this forum because we are crazy one way or the other about aviation.Buckfifty this is a smokeskreen for what?An a380 or 7773er/a346 purchase maybe? Big thumbs up .


Regards
ap305
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6056
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C

Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:44 pm

My bias, I would like to think has not been displayed here. I have made it quite clear that what I have written are rumours only. What I do know is that the 4 leased A340-300s are slated for return in 2006. This is not a rumour. It has been said during a briefing to aircrew by management, and, Buckfifty, if you had access to our company computer system I could show you in engineering's webpage exactly where it is written.

As for the BA744s, not sure what the BA pilots are saying, but a recent blurb from our management seemed to imply the only obstacle to us getting at least some BA 744s was the price. We shall wait and see!

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