wgw2707
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History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:05 pm

I am currently trying to find out about the current operations at each of the terminals at JFK, and their history, as well as photographs of the terminals. I am looking for information on all 9 main terminals, plus also out of mere curiosity, Tower Air's "terminal." Can you reccommend any websites or do you have any information about the terminals?

Also, is there room at the airport for the construction of any additional terminals in a convenient location?

-WGW2707
 
JAL777
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:09 pm

Terminal 1: Brand New, Built In The Late 90's.
Terminal 2: Delta (dump)
Terminal 3: Delta (Old Pan Am Worldport)
Terminal 4: Brand New (Replaced International Arrivals Building which was a dump)
Terminal 5: TWA (closed)
Terminal 6: JetBlue (Eastern Airlines I believe)
Terminal 7: British Airways/United
Terminal 8/9: American Airlines (Falling Apart, New Replacement In Construction)

Tower Air "Terminal:" I believe it was demolished to make room for the new Terminal 1. Total dump. Wouldn't even call it a terminal.
 
Guest

RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:12 pm

Corrections & Comments:
- T6 is the former secondary (domestic) TW terminal / National Airlines Terminal before that. The original T1 housed EA.

- BA has poured millions into renovations of T7.

- AA's new terminal project appears to be on hold.

- DL would like to replace their two terminals with one housing domestic + a connection to T4 for their international flights.
 
JAL777
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:14 pm

Ah... thanks for the correction on T6 IP... wasn't really sure about that one. T7 looks great after all the $$$ BA put into it.
 
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STT757
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:53 pm

T-1 a partnership of LH, VS, JAL, AF opened in '97. They tore down the old Eastern Airlines terminal to build the new terminal.

T-2 was built for Northwest Orient and DL about 35-40 years ago, in the late '70s - early '80s it was incorporated into Pan Am's operation after they aquired National. It was made into a domestic terminal for Pan Am, they sold the National Airlines terminal (T-6) to TWA who then did the same as Pan Am and turned T-6 into a Domestic terminal to compliment T-5.

The old IAB was replaced by a the new T-4 in 2001 which was built by a group of investors led by Schipol and Lehman Brothers or Goldman Sachs.

The British airways terminal has under gone a $400 Million dollar renovation by a company that does concert stage designs etc. It's very "hip".

T-5 is vacant.

Terminal 8 has always been the AA terminal, built in the late '50s-early '60s.

Terminal 9 was built for UAL , AA took it over in the late Eighties and connected it to their T-8.

AA is tearing down T-8 and T-9 and replacing the two terminals with one larger modern terminal.

However AA has slowed the project and scaled it back, it was originally planned to open in 2006 and include 55 gates. The revised plan has the terminal's mid-field concourse opening by 2005 and the rest of the project being finished by 2008, also it's being scaled down from the originaly planned 55 gates to just 39. The gates not to be built were for Eagle, AA's Eagle operation has been drastically curtailed at JFK since the Terminal project was launched in '99.

Eagle now only flies to YUL, BOS, DCA, RDU.

They ended all their flights from JFK-Providence, Albany, Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Hartford, Columbus, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, IAD etc..

Jetblue and the Port Authority are in negotiations on a plan to raze Jetblue's T-6 and part (concourses) of T-5 and be replaced by a modern 23 (or more) gate terminal, the new terminal would be connected to T-5 but T-5 would not facilitate any airline operations (check-in, screening, luggage etc) rather it would be a musuem, restaruant, lounge etc..
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Jetsgo
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Sun Oct 19, 2003 2:06 pm

Forgive me if I am missing something huge, but why is T5 closed? I have always wondered this.


Chris
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JAL777
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Sun Oct 19, 2003 2:07 pm

T5 is the old TWA terminal. No one is using it currently.
 
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STT757
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Sun Oct 19, 2003 2:08 pm

Pan Am's World Port (T-3)









Note the construction of T-2 in this photo



United Airlines Terminal (T-9)



Old IAB ramp looking towards DL's World Port



American Airlines Terminal (T-8), 1961



Old "Flitseerer" tram



T-5 under construction



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STT757
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Sun Oct 19, 2003 2:09 pm

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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STT757
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Sun Oct 19, 2003 2:16 pm

New AA terminal..













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STT757
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Sun Oct 19, 2003 2:56 pm

"October 19, 2003

J.F.K. Project Would Reopen Famed Terminal

By COREY KILGANNON

JetBlue Airways and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey have agreed on a plan for the airline to build a modern 26-gate terminal adjacent to Terminal 5 at Kennedy International Airport, the historic Trans World Airlines Flight Center designed by Eero Saarinen, officials said yesterday.

After intense discussions in recent weeks, JetBlue and the Port Authority, which operates the airport, reached a consensus and submitted their final comments to the Federal Aviation Administration last week. The agency has final approval on airport projects and is expected to make a decision within a month.

Richard J. Smyth, vice president of redevelopment at JetBlue, said all parties "feel pretty good" that the plans will be approved.

"We finally arrived at a consensus and made a formal recommendation to the F.A.A. with an approach that seems to be the best plan for everyone," he said.

If approved, the $600 million project would be a bold, ambitious move during a dismal economic time in the airline industry and would help JetBlue, the largest domestic carrier at Kennedy, greatly expand its operations there.

The deal would also revive Terminal 5, famed for its distinctive modern style but closed since October 2001 when Trans World Airlines ceased operations.

"With the building empty, it continues to deteriorate," Mr. Smyth said. "This plan saves a historic building and allows the appropriate upgrade for a modern airline, so we can grow at J.F.K."

The 41-year-old terminal is a city landmark. But after it closed, several New York preservation groups feared that it might be declared obsolete by airport officials and demolished. They began fighting for a development project that would include it as a functioning terminal, rather than a museum piece.

Frank E. Sanchis III, executive director of the Municipal Art Society, which was involved in the discussions, called the final recommendations a "happy solution."

"The plan provides a functional use for one of the most wonderful buildings ever designed to board an airplane from," he said.

Alan Hicks, a Port Authority spokesman, said the agency was working with all parties, including JetBlue and the Municipal Art Society, to make sure that Terminal 5 remained in use. "It is a magnificent work of art, and we are very proud of it," he said.

Mr. Smyth said the existing terminal would serve as an alternative entrance to the proposed terminal behind it and would have automated JetBlue ticket kiosks. The Port Authority would control the older terminal, he said, and evaluate proposals for uses, which could include a conference center, restaurants, shops and offices.

The new terminal would be connected to the existing one by its two well-known tubular passenger walkways, which were used in the 2002 film "Catch Me if You Can" as the setting of a climactic encounter between Leonardo DiCaprio and Tom Hanks.

Under the current recommendations, at least one original walkway would be preserved, with the other possibly modified or rebuilt to contain a moving walkway.

JetBlue operates 80 flights per day out of Terminal 6, but wants to triple that number by 2010, which the proposed 26-gate terminal would allow the airline to do, Mr. Smyth said. JetBlue hopes to finish it by mid-2007, and to pay for much of the cost through the sale of bonds, Mr. Smyth said.


Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company"
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DETA737
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:58 pm

I wish there were some comprehensive website with the history of JFK's terminals but I haven not found any yet. So here's what information I have. Up until the 1990s the terminals were simply known by the name of the carriers that operated out of them. Then they got new designations like TWA's terminals became 4A and 4B (now 5 and 6).

Terminal 1- opened in May of 1998. It repaces the site of what was until 1991 Eastern Airlines terminal (originally built in 1959). The present terminal was built for Air France, JAL, Korean Air, and Lufthansa. It is also used by Singapore Airlines and Virgin Atlantic among others. Air Afrique and Transbrasil had their flights out of this terminal.

Terminal 2 (formerly 1A)- Built in 1962 it was originally Delta/Northwest Orient. Braniff was also there until 1981. Delta and Northwest vacated it in the mid-80s and it became Pan Am's domestic terminal. In 1991 it reverted to Delta and was used by Air Jamaica, Lacsa, Saeta, Saudi Arabian Airlines and TACA at various times.

Terminal 3 (formerly Delta Flight Center)- Delta's International Terminal. Was opened in 1960 as the Pan Am Worldport. In 1971 it underwent a multi-million dollar expansion. In the 1970s Aeroflot and Iran Air both had flights out of this terminal. In 1991 Pan Am went under and Delta took over the terminal. Different codeshare parters of Delta used the terminal throughout the 1990s. Aeroflot, Aeromexico, Air China, Air Ukraine, ANA, Austrian Airlines, Avianca, Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, CSA, Finnair, Malev, Sabena, Swissair, TAP, Tarom, Varig and Virgin Atlantic all used this terminal at various points throughout the 1990s.

Terminal 4 (former site of IAB with 4E East Wing and 4W West Wing) - Was the site of the International Arrivals building which was completed in 1957. It housed most of JFK's international carriers and had become crowded and rundown by the 1990s. The new terminal opened in 2001. For those of who remember the old IAB, driving by it looked like a giant mall with each airline having a storefront sign.

Terminal 5 (formerly TWA 4A)- TWA's International Terminal. It was opened in 1962 and flight wing one was added in late 1970 to handle the new jumbo jets. After terminal 6 was acquired by TWA it became an exclusively international terminal. In the early 80s it was also home to USAir's Allegheny Commuter. Royal Jordanian moved to this terminal in late 1997. Air Europa, America West and Sun Country all used this terminal in the late 1990s. It was shut down in October of 2001 after TWA's takeover by American Airlines.

Terminal 6 (formerly TWA 4B)- Jet Blue's Terminal. It was designed by renowned architect I.M. Pei, it was known as the National Airlines Sundome when it was inaugurated in 1969. In 1980 Pan Am acquired National and TWA decided to take over this terminal and make it it's domestic terminal (though in the early 80s some departures to Lisbon and London were flown from here). In the early 1990s as TWA began cutting back at JFK, Carnival, North American, Philippine Airlines and Transbrasil operated flights from here. In 1997 Pan Am II moved in as well as United. TWA finally abandoned the terminal in 2000.

Terminal 7 (fromerly British Airways Terminal). It was originally completed in 1970 and was home to British Airways as well as Air Canada. TAP Air Portugal was there in the 1980s briefly. In 1991 it was completely refurbished and United Airlines moved in. By the mid-90s LAN Chile, Saeta, USAir and Varig were all at this terminal. Later it became a home to many OneWorld members such as Cathay Pacific. America West and Thai Airways International also use it.

Terminal 8 (formerly American Airlines 3A/B)- American Airlines International Terminal. It was inaugurated in 1960 and has the distinction of having the world's largest stained glass work. In the early 1980s it was also home to Olympic Airways. In the 1990s BWIA, Finnair, Gulf Air, LOT and SAA all moved in. It is now home to Iberia and other OneWorld members.

Terminal 9 (formerly American Airlines 3C/D)- American Airlines Domestic Terminal. It was completed in 1959 as United Airlines terminal. They stayed there until 1991 when they moved to Terminal 7. It was also home to United Airlines after they moved out of terminal 2. Aerolineas Argentinas used it in the late 1990s.

 
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STT757
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:08 am

" It is also used by Singapore Airlines "

Singapore has moved to T-4

Another tid-bit,

Eastern did not have a FIS facility at their Terminal, so their International arrivals from Santo Domingo, Mexico City, Panama City the Carribean (etc.) arrived at the British Airways terminal.
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STT757
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:09 am

Between '86 and '89 CO operated out of Eastern's terminal at JFK, they flew HNL-SYD from JFK with a DC-10.
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airfrancejfk
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:38 am

Just one last note, the old Tower Air terminal is still there, opposite the Port Authority building. It's falling apart just as it was when Tower was there many years ago.
 
usairways85
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Mon Oct 20, 2003 3:36 am

Just an update the AA terminal looks to be coming along although they've sidelined the project somewhat. I was up at JFK today to watch the corcorde take off and there are already a few gates installed at the new midfield terminal for AA. Also testing of the new AirTrain was in full swing. They must have been simulating a busy day because at least 5 trains were traveling between the terminals stopping at each one.
 
ntspelich
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Mon Oct 20, 2003 3:52 am

The other day I picked up a good book on the TWA terminal. A brief introduction of what the architect was thinking when he designed the building, then mainly just a photographic survey of the terminal.
The book's called "The TWA Terminal" by Ezra Stoller if anyone's interested in it.

NS
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wgw2707
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Mon Oct 20, 2003 7:57 am

Excellenht, NTS! Where did you find the book? I want to get one, lol...

BTW, do any of you know of any photos of the old Tower Air terminal online?

-WGW2707
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Mon Oct 20, 2003 8:44 am


I know DL had their ambitious JFK plan for one terminal. $1.6B, I think? Has anyone heard about any scaled down plans? I would think it wouldn't happen until BOS is completed in 2005.
 
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STT757
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:13 am

DL's plan for JFK actually never included a "new" terminal, their plan was to...

Move all International flights to Terminal 4, where the West end concourse would be expanded by about 12-15 gates. They add their own ticketing/check-in, and arrivals area to Terminal 4's Westside.

They would have then torn down T-3, and then expand T-2 by about 10 regional jet gates.

It's still possible they will go ahead and move their International flights to T-4, T-4 is huge and only has 16 gates! It's designed to be expanded, shame they would tear down Pan Am's old World Port though (personally I like that building better than TWA's old T-5).

The plan was VERY AMBITIOUS (to say the least), and was put on hold even before 9-11.

http://www.jfk-airport.org/newsdelta1.htm
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cs03
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:23 am

The old Terminal 1 had a central booking area, and long "fingers" on either side with boarding areas. Eastern used most of it, but "near the end" MGM Grand was on of the users.
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:26 am


The number of flights predicted was extremely ambitious - given that the BOS expansion was taken into account. I would seriously doubt if we would see anything close to that now. I guess that's what codeshares and alliance partners are for.

I would like to see a renovated area. I recently flew MAD-JFK and had to connect to my DFW flight in Terminal 2. It was a hike!
 
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STT757
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:32 am

If they were to go ahead with their original plan your "hike" would have turned into a full blown pilgramage, their plans would have you walking from T-4 to T-2. About double the distance you had to walk, with the help of some moving sidewalks.
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deltaffindfw
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:40 am


Yeah, I guess your right! Much better to fly out of ATL. At least you get a train instead of moving sidewalks.
 
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STT757
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:43 am

You would be able to take the Air Train from T-4 to T-2, but it would be outside security.

The walkway/moving sidewalks would be behind security so you would not have to be double screened.
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wgw2707
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:50 am

That would be terrible, in my opinion, if Delta demolished T3 and used T4 instead. T4 is in my opinion a miserable terminal, one of the ugliest, most depressing I have ever seen. If DL moves to T4, I'll fly a different airline to New York. However, I am glad to hear that the feasibility of the plan has been questioned.

Perhaps there is time to organize a foundation to try to save Worldport? After all, it was once the largest terminal in the world and the first to use jetways.

-WGW2707
 
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STT757
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Mon Oct 20, 2003 11:14 am

WGW2707,

Are you talking about the current Terminal 4 that opened in 2001 , or the old IAB?

The new terminal 4 is nice, although terribly underutilized..


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The old IAB Terminal 4 was torn down as they built the new Terminal 4 in 2001.


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Don't worry about T-3, it's safe for now. That DL plan was shelved 3 years ago even before 9-11, it's unclear what will happen but whatever happens will not be anytime soon. However getting T-3 (Pan Am's former World Port) the same historic status as TWA's former T-5 would be a good idea, to save it from future destruction.
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wgw2707
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:17 pm

STT,

I was talking about T4. In my opinion, it's an extremely large, unpleasant terminal. When I was there in 2002 (waiting for a rather unpleasant flight with the now-defunct National Airlines) it was hot and stuffy in the check-in concourse, and the lower level, though well equipped in terms of shops, restaurants et cetera, was poorly designed, with horrible concrete benches among its other features.

T3 might not be as well equipped, but I find it to be more comfortable. T4 is just too large, and I find it to be rather oppressive....

BTW I am glad I do not have to immediately worry about Worldport. I think getting it historical designation would be excellent. Ideally, I would like to see Worldport refurbished and upgraded, with more shops, better baggage claim facilties et cetera, yet preserving the distinctive circular building that can claim to be the first terminal in the world with jetways, and one of the most spectacular. Also, in my opinion, preserving and restoring T3 would be a better way to enhance Delta's identity and popularity at the airport, as a means of countering what jetBlue is doing with T5.

-WGW2707
 
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:37 pm

Update on American Airlines T8 (New Construction):

The timetable that STT757 provided is quite accurate. Or, at least, it concurs with what a Special Services Agent told my partner and I when we last traveled through JFK. Construction continues, with most of the activity surrounding the main ticketing lobby. According to the same agent, it is now AA's plan to wait until the main ticketing lobby is complete before moving any operations to the new midfield concourse.

The reduction of gates from 55 to 39 also concurs with what she told us. In particular, she reported that the wings extending from both sides of the main ticketing lobby had been deleted. You can see what they would have looked like in the picture above. They are the ones in the very front. She informed us that the rest of the building would be built as designed.

 
ntspelich
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Mon Oct 20, 2003 8:28 pm

United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
 
TWFirst
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Mon Oct 20, 2003 11:14 pm

Another note about the current (new) T4...

Ever notice any similarities in the signage, "feel" and atmosphere between it and Schiphol (AMS)? That's because it was designed by the same firm that designed/and or manages Schiphol (can't remember which). I love flying out of T4... I feel as if I'm already in Europe! Hung out in the AerLingus lounge there back in Sept. (they let KL/NW customers use it)... VERY cool.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
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STT757
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:43 am

"Ever notice any similarities in the signage, "feel" and atmosphere between it and Schiphol (AMS)? That's because it was designed by the same firm that designed/and or manages Schiphol (can't remember which"

They have also done the signage at Newark and Laguardia, they did an excellent job at Newark which before was kind of confusing even for me Big grin

WGW2707,

I agree 100% with regards to T-3, if DL were to want to do something with their JFK facilities I would move their International flights to T-4. And refurbish T-3 for Song, and the DL Regional carriers.

With regards to AA current and DL's proposed JFK projects, they were conceived in the Late Nineties during the economic boom and before Jet Blue. Jet Blue is quickly becoming JFK's largest carrier, the economics are changing at JFK thus making Domestic service from carriers like AA and DL too costly. Jet Blue and their low fare A320 and soon ERJ-190 flights are making almost impossible to make money competing with 35-50 RJs, thus eventually DL may turn over their remaing Domestic flying (SEA, LAX, SFO, PHX) over to Song.

AA is going to concentrate on international flying from JFK, and run the Domestic service through LGA.

Jet Blue is having a phenominal impact at JFK, they are single handidly increasing JFK's traffic (up 40% last year!). The down side is that they are having success at the expense of DL and AA, the only thing I could compare the trend to is the success South West has had at BWI since the early 1990s at the expense of US Airways.
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levg79
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:28 pm

Tower Air "Terminal:" I believe it was demolished to make room for the new Terminal 1. Total dump.

The TowerAir terminal is in no way near T1. It's located in the remote area of JFK near cargo areas closer to long-term parking lot. It's still standing there with Tower Air titles (or at least what's left of them). Up until recently there was a Tower Air B747 standing there but it's been removed the last time I checked. And to the best of my knowledge, you had to have a ticket to enter a Tower Air terminal building(!) due to their paranoid security measures.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
 
prosa
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:50 am

And to the best of my knowledge, you had to have a ticket to enter a Tower Air terminal building(!) due to their paranoid security measures.

A fair percentage of Tower's business consisted of flights to TLV, so I would imagine that their security needs were higher than normal.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
LastBaron
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:56 am

And considering the crap we go through to fly anywhere in this country post-9/11, maybe Tower was just a little ahead of its time in terms of security measures...

Disband the TSA!
 
LastBaron
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:01 am

Can't find anything much out there about Tower Terminal, but did have some fun stumbling across these (presumably forgotten) pages about Tower and how wonderful it is on a travel agency site - enjoy!

http://www.atlantis.gr/towerair/destinations.html
 
wgw2707
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RE: History/Photos/Status Of JFK Terminals

Wed Oct 22, 2003 6:37 am

Actually, the entire TowerAir website is preserved, right down to the gushing biography of Morris Nachtomi, if you go to www.archive.org and type www.towerair.com into the Wayback Machine.

However, unfortunately (though doubtless fortunately for TowerAir) there are no pictures of their terminal.

-WGW2707

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