b764
Posts: 705
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2001 10:49 am

Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Mon Oct 20, 2003 12:14 am

I was reading in a current issue of AirlinerWorld that Aeromexico will soon choose the replacement for their 767-200/300 fleet. There is talk of them returning all their 767s.

So with their recent order for 737NG aircraft, will we see a Boeing or Airbus order?

I personally would love to see a 767-400 or 777 in Aeromexico colors. Couldn't they fill a 764 to Madrid & Paris.

 
ryder10uk
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 11:59 pm

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Mon Oct 20, 2003 12:27 am

i think the 767-400 would lack the range to get to MAD A330-200 most likely.
 
ghost77
Posts: 4458
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Mon Oct 20, 2003 12:53 am

AFAIK, AM in the first q of 2004, will start talks with AF for the lease of 3 B777s. They will study if it's better for AM to lease them via AF or with a lessor company, or maybe soon we mith see a B764 or B777 order!!!. They will also receive a B767-300 next December. AM will increase frequencies to SCL and GRU. Also they are studying a new route.. MEX-GIG.

They pretend to increase and stay with:
4 - 762S
2 - 763S
3 - 777S

Ricardo M.  Smile

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
b764
Posts: 705
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2001 10:49 am

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:09 am

Ryder10uk:

Your right about the 764's range. I should have looked at the specifications before throwing that type out there. It appears then the only Boeing aircraft would be the 777. Still a nice sight in AM colors!

MEX-MAD = 5,643 miles along great circle

767-400 range = 5,645 miles

Does anyone think it'll be an airbus order?



 
JAVOMD88
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 3:17 pm

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:37 am

Hi,
I sincerely doubt Aeromexico will go with Airbus, AM is a boeing company and is focussing after the md80s are gone 2 to be an all boeing company. They have good relations with boieng and none with Airbus, id think they would choose them automatically.

For me personally i prefer the 777 over the A330/340.

Thanks and seeya!

JAVO.
aeromexico.....the only true carrier of mexico
 
Korg747
Posts: 502
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 5:18 am

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:46 am

can't the 767-400 take Aux tanks to meet the range?
Please excuse my English!
 
alvaro
Posts: 238
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 9:59 am

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Mon Oct 20, 2003 3:01 am

I agree with JAVO, AeroMexico will end up replacing those 762s with 763 and then increasing long haul flights & capacity with 777s. Their ties with Boeing are huge.

Alvaro
En Mexicana cumplimos 85 años de hacerte sentir el placer de volar sin limites
 
Mexicana757
Posts: 2631
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 3:21 pm

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Mon Oct 20, 2003 3:30 am

B764
I read that article too, on Airliner World.

AM should get the 777, they need them on the runs to CDG and MAD. Well if AM decided to get the 767-400 they can use it to fly to SCL and GRU. I agree with JAVO and Alvaro AM will stick with 763s and bring in the 777s. I think AM should throw in a 777-300ER but it might be to big for them to fill, but who knows. Big grin  Laugh out loud

[Edited 2003-10-19 20:31:58]
 
JAVOMD88
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 3:17 pm

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Mon Oct 20, 2003 4:17 am

Hi,
Sure we would love a 777-300er, but i think we will startoff with a 777-200, not becuase of the filling it up with pax, but i guess it cost alot more, and we here at Aeromexico ar trying our hardest to reduce costs so we can bring more planes and be at a better financial point! (man that sounded like a commmercial, lol)

But ofcourse a 777-300er would be great. But i doubt it!

Thanks.

JAVO.
aeromexico.....the only true carrier of mexico
 
B2707SST
Posts: 1258
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Mon Oct 20, 2003 4:24 am

Just a quick correction - the 767-400ER's maximum range is 5,645 nautical miles, or 6,500 statute miles. Still, given the demise of the 767-400LR several years ago, the 777-200ER would probably be a better match for AeroMexico.

--B2707SST
Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
 
fly727
Posts: 1752
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:27 am

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Mon Oct 20, 2003 4:24 am

I personally see no sense at all ordering 764 because it does not have the range to reach Europe from hot and high MEX. The 777 is by far a better option as it can do both the Europe and the South American runs. Now; if the demand is not that great to justify the 777 in South America (as it is in CDG and MAD) I would leave the 763 for those routes.

I heard somewhere Skyteam is pushing AM to get newer widebody a/c; specially 777 fo the Europe flights. Is this true?

RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
Mexicana757
Posts: 2631
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 3:21 pm

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:24 am

This might be off the widebody topic. But is AM planning to keep the 757s or are they planning to replace them with 737-800/900 equipment?

Thanks  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
fly727
Posts: 1752
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:27 am

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Mon Oct 20, 2003 7:32 am

I wouldn't be surprised to know they will replace them with the 737-900, specially now that Boeing announced the closure of the 757 line. Anyways this is merely speculation and before anything related to further aircraft replacement concerns, I see at least another 5-7 years to the 757 in AM's fleet (if not a bit more time if we took in mind that AM will keep the older-than-757 MD80's until 2008).

RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
JOSEMEX
Posts: 1437
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 11:44 am

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:04 pm

>>personally see no sense at all ordering 764 because it does not have the range to reach Europe from hot and high MEX. <<

To tell you the truth, if the 777 is too big for AM and the 764 is range-limited for them, I wouldn't mind seeing them ordering new 762's with the new 77-style interior (like the ones CO's got), and using them to open up routes where demand is not that big (London, CO / LIRF), Italy">FCO, EZE, etc.).

Although many here wouldn't like it, I guess.

[Edited 2003-10-20 06:05:50]
 
JOSEMEX
Posts: 1437
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 11:44 am

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:13 pm

>>AM is a boeing company <<

Javo,

Let's not forget that, up to a few years ago, MX was an all-boeing airline, and now it may become an all-airbus one.

While everything points in the direction of AM becoming all-Boeing, who knows what may happen when they decide to renew their long-range fleet. If the 777 is too big for AM, and the 767 too small, they might choose the 330 (unless the 7E7 is launche by then).

Although I must say I very much prefer the 777 over the 330/340.

(And please, everyone,I'm not trying to start a A vs B war; it is just my very personal opinion). If either AM or MX went for the 330/340, I would be thrilled just as well.
 
ghost77
Posts: 4458
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:31 pm

Ok, after a few orders and years we just have seen that Mexicana will be Airbus and AeroMexico Boeing definitely.

So the most probable thing to we are gonna see it's a widebody order from AM.

Back to the topic, last Friday, some relatives were flying the MEX-MAD with AM, they depart early as estimated on schedule, but 3 hours later, I received a call from my family who were on board, telling me that the flight came back to MEX after an engine failure on engine number 2. AM fix the problem in 2 hours... and then head back to MAD.... poor pax and crew!!! A very long flight!!! This has become more frequent with their long haul routes, and I think the problem is not the 762s, the problem is AM for not having back up aircrafts! They should at least bring 2 more 767s.... one -200 more... I'm glad a -300 is coming soon!

JOSEMEX - I dis and agree with you. AM could easily fill the 777 to MAD and CDG. And I would also love 762/763ss new to replace the current fleet. But for routes to South America at least you have to send a 763! You have to compete with RG MD11 and LA 763 daily flights!

IMO AM should place an order for 3 777s, 4 767-300s and 4 767-200s.

Ricardo Morales  Smile

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
JOSEMEX
Posts: 1437
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 11:44 am

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:11 pm

Ricardo,

I was saying "IF the 777 is too big", not stating that it actually was too big for AM.  Big grin
 
AR385
Posts: 6734
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:17 pm

I disagree. The name of the game these days is frequency, not size. Aeromexico should get more 762 and offer more daily flights to MAD, CDG and even FRA and FCO/MXP. Their schedules to Europe these days are ridicoulousl. Departures at 2pm to CDG 11:30 am to SCL, what that f...is that. Their comparative adavantage should be developed on small, long range planes with high frequencies in a day. That'll kick IB, AF and LH ass.
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:20 pm

How long has Aero Mexico had the 767s? They aren't that old are they? I thought that they had got them in the 90s.

Why don't they just hold off and wait for the 7E7
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:58 am

Ar385:

That will depend on landing rights and flights between Mexico and Europe more than on AM's operational desires. I am not familiar with such things, but I do know that the airlines have very little real control over frequency on international routes.

However, I agree: Several 762 flights would be better than a few 772 flights from the perspective of marketing the flights to consumers.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
AM744
Posts: 1434
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:05 pm

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:21 am

After all, you're spending half a day flying. ¿What difference could a couple of hours make? The longer the route, the less important frequency becomes. Now, sending 2 762s instead of 1 777 is uneconomical from a seat/mile cost point of view. Bring on some 777s!!!
 
AR385
Posts: 6734
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:02 am

AM744

Your comment is somewhat misleading. You are right. You are spending half a day on a plane, but I can tell you that as a businessman, those couple of hours can mean one more important meeting, a last minute visit to an important client, etc. The choice of departure times is really important. Just look at BA in Houston. They have several departure times to LGW.

By the way, I have a house in Cuernavaca
 
ElPelon
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:59 am

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:16 am

the flight came back to MEX after an engine failure on engine number 2.

WHAT'S GOING ON WITH AM LONG HAUL ROUTES?? last time I flew the MEX-MAD route, we had a 4 hr. delay due to an engine failure, finally they changed the a/c. Last time I went to MEX airport to take a flight to MIA, I noticed that the MEX-CDG flight was delay due to an a/c failure. It seems this is becoming a comon thing.. Are the 767 old?? are they having poor mainteinance? or what´s going??
ElPelon
 
AM744
Posts: 1434
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:05 pm

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:48 am

Ar385:
Well, yes, no doubt about it. But talking specifically about AM the convenience of a fully loaded wide-body(cargo and pax) would have more value than adding a third frequency to CDG(counting AF, of course), operationally-wise.

By the way, I have a house in Cuernavaca
Yep, nice city... Maybe we can gather when you come around here and talk about aviation  Big thumbs up Glad to see there are more and more Mexican a.netters
 
JAVOMD88
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 3:17 pm

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Wed Oct 22, 2003 6:41 am

Hi guys,
Id just like to add, that AM flight # 5 and 6 mex/cdg/mex depend entirely on the SLOTS AT CDG! so that our is given to AM to land and depart CDG.
Also they are trying to give 2 alternatives on arrival and connection into CDG.
With Am you have an early arrival and connect almost anywhere, and with AF you have a later connection into CDG, and a late departure from MEX.

Also id like to say, that everyday we connect from lots of domestic flights into MEX and have a convenient connection at 245pm and don't have to wait at mex all day long to leave to europe on european airlines. Ive seen lots of flights leave from various cities in the world at that hour departing to europe. So why are you all like whats with that time of departure.

Thanks

JAVO.
aeromexico.....the only true carrier of mexico
 
ghost77
Posts: 4458
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:21 am

Josemex,

I did a mistake while reading! Sorry!

HlywdCatft,
How long has Aero Mexico had the 767s? They aren't that old are they? I thought that they had got them in the 90s.

The -200s were all built in 1992. The sole 300 was del to AM direct from Boeing in finals of 98. According to a friend the next 300 for AM will have a few hours... so probably it will also be a recent model!

BACK TO THE TOPIC.... I think AM schedules are OK. The CDG flight gives a lot of time to connect people instead of waiting till the afternoon. Also MAD it also has a nice departure from MX), Mexico">MEX, also you don't have to wait all day long at MX), Mexico">MEX to catch your flight connection.

I think that the addition of more frequencies wouldn't work, all bussiness travellers got for sure US VISA.... so.... you can fly from MX), Mexico">MEX to LAX, ATL, IAH, JFK, MIA and from there, you can take a flight direct to our Asian or European destination in order to get to your meeting. So opening a third flight to MAD and CDG for a few people even do with 762s (182pax) I think it would be to much seats for those two routes. (Or maybe I could be wrong, too bad we don't have a Mexican a.net route planner of MX/AM.)

AeroMexico should upgrade the equipment (not only because the 777s looks nice in AM colours) I think the 777 or MD11 it's really needed on thouse routes! AM should take advantage of DL retiring the MD11, they should take the last MD11s delivered to DL those from 98, 99... But I guess that won't happen  Sad. And finally open a direct flight to MAD, MXP and FCO. Flying those routes 3x a week with 762s.

Ricardo M.  Smile

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
britmex
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2000 3:26 pm

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Tue Oct 28, 2003 6:06 pm

As an AM cabin attendant I have been told some rumours...and facts.

Some months ago AF offered AM surplus 777`s but even if we would take them, a lot of planning and money is involved before they begin to fly with us. As an example the 737`s took months to train mechanics, pilots and us, the cabin staff. Mind that also ground/gate staff , handlers and even cleaning crews must be noticed on advance. When all the 737`s are delivered and flying, maybe we could start taking about 767 replacements.

Regarding 767`s in Aeromexico, the 200 series were ex-Lan Chile aircraft (XA-JBC and RVZ) and built in the early 90`s while XA-TOJ and TNS are older. Oscar-juliet was a former Trans Brasil from the late 80`s while November-sierra is much older, starting its days with SAS around the 80`s. Needles to say, this particular aircraft has been the most troublesome and is the most likely to be replaced. The 300 is new and in very good condition, however it is restricted with full cargo and fuel in transatlantic flights so it is mostly used to South America. The 777-200 is the most likely replacement and the 767-200 would be gone. New routes are being studied, specially to Milan, Frankfurt and London. We wouldn`t have any problem filling a 777 since many customers really like our service in spite of our smaller and older fleet. That would be a really powerful selling tool.

saludos a todos en MEXICO

Aeromexico, la linea aerea que va para arriba
 
rojo
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 6:08 am

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:02 pm

I flew TOdo Jodido (XA-TOJ) on the MEX-MAD route and it has a very weird configuration with a lavatory in the middle of the economy section. The aircraft is very well kept on the inside, but the space between seats is too small. I really like AM trasatlantic service, but the problem is they only have two destinations. I will love to see a MEX-LHR flight soon, and the B762's is the perfect aircraft to do the run for the first year. For MAD, a bigger equipment is really needed, but the B763 has always been restricted, so they don't have a choice, but to keep the B762 on the MAD and CDG flights and send the B763 to SCL, GRU and JFK. I guess AM has a tough call on the new long haul equipment they should get in order to have profitable flights, but they need to get a good amount of airplanes to justify the training of mechanics, pilots, F/A, ground staff, etc. Not just get two B777's, which could hurt AM finances a lot.
 
fly727
Posts: 1752
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:27 am

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Wed Oct 29, 2003 4:16 am

Once said that and unless there are some more powerful reasons it seems that the logical decision will fall in the 777 because of:

- Restrictions out of MEX for transatlantic services with the 763 fully loaded.
- One manufacturer commonality (go all Boeing).

But also what JOSEMEX stated in his reply # 13 is full of sense... AM could as well get new(er) 762 with the new interiors (like CO's), not spending a dime in training for pilots, mechs, F/As, avoiding the hassle -and cost- of a new aircraft introduction and over everything, being able to try new destinations with a cost effective aircraft such as the 762 has proved to be. Many of us would rather see the 777, but whatever floats the boat....

RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
ghost77
Posts: 4458
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: Aeromexico Widebody Order Soon?

Wed Oct 29, 2003 8:22 am

Yeap, I also like the idea of Josemex and I would do what CO just did! But the 777 or a larger aircraft it's also needed for MAD, CDG... and new more routes!

AM should replace the older 762s with new 762s increase the 763s fleet in order to increase frequencies to South America and upgrade with 777 to MAD and CDG... and also a MX), Mexico">MEX-FRA in 777 with AM it definetly would work very nice! Either MX or AM have to open that route..... right now LUFHTI got no competition!!! By January they will increase to 12x, by next summer to 14x.. apparently AF it's not returning to the 777.... seems they are doing very nice with the 747... AM and Mx need new routes to Europe... if they don't open FRA just imagine what it's going to be MX), Mexico">MEX-FRA in 2006 with the World Cup... 21x a week???? LOL Big grin

Ricardo M.  Smile

PS. Britmex: Welcome to a.net forums! One more mexican!

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!

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