wgw2707
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:37 am

How To Start An Airline

Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:57 am

I have some questions about the process for starting an airline. Aside from the obvious costs associated with purchasing a fleet, hiring staff, et cetera, what legal proceedures have to be carried out in order to get the airline into business? What licenses, credentials, et cetera, are required, and how much (and how long) does it take to get them? What qualifications are needed by the airline executives, and what management positions does the airline have to fill to begin operation? Finally, aside from the purchase of aircraft, slots, et cetera and the hiring of employees, how much does it typically cost, overall, to start a new airline (in terms of the administrative and legal costs, et cetera)?

I would be very much obliged for some insight into this. The purchase of aircraft alone is exceedingly complex, requiring acceptance teams, certification, license-transfering and tense business meetings, and I imagine that starting a new airline is even more complex.

-WGW2707
 
MD11Lover
Posts: 436
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:40 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Mon Oct 20, 2003 11:17 am


I would also like some insight on this. A dream of mine (amongst many) is to start an airline operating in the Caribbean.

Ces
 
Birdwatching
Posts: 3574
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:48 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Mon Oct 20, 2003 12:16 pm

You guys should wait a couple of years, right now it seems that your chances of succeeding are rather small...

Anyway, if you want to start an airline, why not do it with a bunch of people here at a.net? Somebody could come up with the livery, somebody would consider which routes and which airplanes should be considered, etc.

There is so much knowledge / enthusiasm in this place!

I bet you some people in this forum would be pilots / FAs for free.

Airliners.net Airlines! How do you like that!

Count me in, im with you.

Maybe as the CEO?  Big thumbs up Just kidding
All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
 
JeffM
Posts: 7569
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:32 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Mon Oct 20, 2003 12:22 pm

It's like the old saying....

If you have to ask.........
 
AIR757200
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 8:30 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:18 pm


Airliners.net Airlines! How do you like that!

Oh god I can see it now...

All even numbered flights will operate as a "LCC". All odd numbered flights will operate as a "major".

Just imagine if we mixed the flight crews.. "You make $47,000 a year? But I only make $27,000 a year!"
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:51 pm

Depends on the kind of airline you wanna start. Charter is a bit easier to set up compared to a schedduled carrier as you do not need to apply for route licences.

Staff needs to be certified to whatever your country´ aviation authority´s guidelines are. Director FlightOps, Director Training, Director Ground Ops...

Costs will vary from next to nothing (as you´re setting up a new company as a subsidary of an already existing one) into the multi-million range- but nobody ever will really disclose how much money has been spend to get airborne.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
wgw2707
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:37 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:59 pm

I am, like MD11, seriously considering founding an airline, in my instance, in the midwestern United States, at STL and MCI to be precise. I asked these questions on the required legal proceedures neccessary to start an airline in all seriousness, and would like to welcome those who have knowledge of these proceedures to share their wisdom with us.

I would like to thank Flying_Tigers, btw, for his excellent reply. Would any of you happen to know the specific licensing requirements for starting a scheduled carrier in the United States? Is it the same throughout the country, or are their variations from state to state?

-WGW2707

[Edited 2003-10-20 07:05:17]
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
Posts: 3960
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:18 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Mon Oct 20, 2003 3:25 pm

Try contacting your area FAA flight standards district office (FSDO).... look under FAR part 121 too...
Chicks dig winglets.
 
andrewuber
Posts: 2142
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:45 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Mon Oct 20, 2003 3:37 pm

I've thought about it myself. I currently own a company that does airside services for the airlines, and I might be able to put something small together.

Then I look at my current insurance, and my stomach begins to hurt. Just to get onboard passenger jets at a "Category X" airport, the airlines require me to have $10 million. Luckily, I've got a relationship with a larger company, and they are helping me out on the insurance. Otherwise, I was quoted about $60,000 per year, and I can't write a check that big (and have it clear, anyway). Please pass the Pepto...

Then you have to look at the operations of the airline. Scheduling, Reservations, Flight planning, weather, dispatch.... and let's not even THINK about maintenance. Spare engines, avionics, parts, - mechanics, an FAA service station certificate - OK ok ok I'm happy doing what I'm doing.

There is a small airline for sale on Barron Thomas's website - check it out. Here's a link - http://www.barronthomas.com/121.htm
For only $1.2 million, you can have a Part 121 airline in the Southwest. The airline operates Dash 7's, and I doubt any aircraft are included with the sale of the airline itself. You can buy the Dash 7 on his site - here's another link -http://www.barronthomas.com/d7.htm . It's going for about $1.5 million. If you've won the Powerball recently and want a fun project, this might just be up your alley.

As far as an Airliners.net airline - It's a great idea, but I doubt the screeners would hire ANYONE to fly our aircraft. They'd probably ground Chuck Yeager himself for "badscan" or something.... It would NEVER work!  Big grin

[Edited 2003-10-20 08:40:29]
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: How To Start An Airline

Mon Oct 20, 2003 3:51 pm

I am reminded of an adage:

Q: How do you make a small fortune in the airline business?

A: First, you start with a large fortune...

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
asianguy767
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 11:17 pm

RE: How To Start An Airline

Mon Oct 20, 2003 11:57 pm

I believe you need an AOC (air operator's certificate) of which ur local aviation authority needs ur business plan including ur start up capital ur routes, aircraft. I would advise that you find someone who's been in the airline business for a while maybe some retired TWA executives. Or u could engage a law firm that specialises in aviation business. I would think if u want to start an airline with one aircraft (B737) on lease you would need say US$35million, which is a very conservative estimate, just to start up.
 
wgw2707
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:37 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:50 pm

I must thank you all for your advice. Also of course CFalk, your post was very witty  Smile It is one thing to start an airline, but another to succeed...

In the months ahead I will continue to do research on this topic. Perhaps if I am lucky the same author who penned the brilliant article in Airliners about the intricacies of aircraft acquisition will take this topic up next...

-WGW2707
 
backfire
Posts: 3467
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:01 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:02 pm

Just remember that startup airlines burn through cash at an astonishing rate, and that the main reason for new airlines failing is a complete underestimation of just how much capital is needed.
 
Cessna172RG
Posts: 642
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 8:31 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:45 pm

The ACC requires TONS of paperwork for it to be approved. They check your credit and finances, make sure that you can operate in the green (look at today's US carriers, almost all are in the red), and as mentioned it's a lot of work. If you are serious about starting an airline, you'd best hire some staff with experience.
Save the whales...for dinner!!!
 
richardw
Posts: 3136
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:02 pm

never announce your airline without a licence ref www.now-airlines.com
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:19 pm

The start up capitol is something that you need more of than you think you do. Kinda like when you remodel the house always budget 30% more and add x number of extra days. Same goes for starting up an airline. Also I would look at starting as a charter and have others pay for your services at first. Then add scheduled service as you make more money. Tho if starting as a charter make sure you are a good charter airline to begin with. Have a clear business plan and most important stick with it, I am not saying do not be open to change, tho unlike the now majors stop trying to be all things to all people. by changing your core business, i.e. chasing LCC's
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:06 am

WGW2707:

I'm still working out the kinks in that financial plan I set up for you. I am concerned about the cost of reservations systems, but I may have a lead on that (that was something not included in the plan I sent to you).

Luv2fly:

You're absolutely right. All start-up companies burn through cash at a remarkable rate. Having a large amount of money and a line-of-credit ahead of time are very important. I don't know that being a charter to start is quite necessary, as there may not be anyone needing the charter service. However, scheduled service to some select destinations that desperately need competition could be profitable for a new LCC.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
andrewuber
Posts: 2142
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:45 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:42 pm

Elwood, WGW and Luv2fly -

I'd love to participate somehow in this process. I too am interested in either being involved in the startup of an airline, or someday running a small operation (charter or scheduled). As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I already own a company that performs services for airlines, and I could possibly help out quite a bit.

If you would ike to e-mail me, please do so at andrew8728@hotmail.com.

Thanks!

DREW
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:02 pm

What about when first starting doing wet leases of the aircraft and crew to save cost and not having to acquire your own aircraft at first?
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
wgw2707
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:37 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:06 pm

Very interesting Andrew. I've been working with several users of this website on a proposal to launch a new airline in STL, to fill some of the void left by TWA's demise and to provide jobs for former TWA employees. There was a longish topic regarding the subject, "Should TWA be Revived as an STL based regional?. You might want to look it up in the search engine. It has been suggested by several people that if some users of this website worked together, they could start an airline.

-WGW2707
 
ArgInMIA
Posts: 475
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2001 4:07 pm

RE: How To Start An Airline

Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:23 pm

I'm advanced in some plans to start a VERY SMALL commuter airline in Argentina.. There is NO competition at all on any of the possible routes.. And the market size is almost guaranteed since there used to be an airline doing the routes (State owned.. As usual they had 3x the necessary employed and corruption so they closed) and I have their pax numbers.. My plan is to start with 2 small props.. (J32.. Or if things get a little bit better maybe a Saab 340)
so far I need around 200.000 US$ to start and to operate for some months...(not buying a single aircraft.. Just Lease).. The hard part is to get cash to start.. Banks are not giving money in Argentina.. Even with a HUGE collateral (10x of the needed money) Any ideas if someone from the US will invest in something so small? We forecast to be making around 10k US$ a month within the first 4 months with only 1 aircraft operating..
Alto.. Mucho mas alto.. hasta la cumbre
 
wgw2707
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:37 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:24 pm

ARGinMIA,

Have you thought about seeking Chilean investors? One possibility would be to work on starting an airline the USA, and if you're successful, take the money and enter the Argentine market.

Personally, I think what would be great would be a Montevideo, Uruguay based airline. It could become the Singapore Airlines of South America...

-WGW2707
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:26 pm

Try to advertize at speednews.com or approach one of the lessors - they usually know where to organize financing for such a kind of start-up you are proposing.

Regardless what you´ve estimated so far - usually it is required by the aviation authorities that you have enough money in the bank to survive 90 days without any income whatsoever. Only if you can prove that this is possible the authorities might give you a green light onto this aspect.

Second aspect: usually a lessor will require a fully filed business plan including a bill which shows that you are financed until they start negotiations about a lease.

Plus: Do your pilots need line experience? If so, how many hours are required? Where can they get it? Where is the next place they can go into a simulator? How do you sell tickets? How do you do your crew training? Who is catering you?

Which equipment are you going to use? Where will it come from? Which are the specifications? How much will a refit/re-spray cost? etc etc etc

So several aspects which need to be considered.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
lanperu
Posts: 602
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 1:17 pm

RE: How To Start An Airline

Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:55 pm

ARGinMIA:
-Hey I am also thinking of doing something like that. Contact me if you can, I would really like to know more.

-LanPeru
 
ArgInMIA
Posts: 475
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2001 4:07 pm

RE: How To Start An Airline

Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:55 pm

Well Uruguay and Chile are markets I dont have any info about.. I do know Argentina.. so moving the location is out of the question.. the 250.000 I forecast will last about 1 month without any other source of income..

Flying-Tiger so far im looking at the J31/32 do you have any idea on current lease prices?
Alto.. Mucho mas alto.. hasta la cumbre
 
wgw2707
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:37 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:12 pm

You can get EMB-120s relatively cheaply right now also. The US commuter lines are dumping them rapidly thanks to the new RJ. You should look into them.

-WGW2707
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:35 pm

As you are obviously looking on 19-seaters here we go:

Data from 2003 for a 3-5 year operating lease (US$):
J31/32 15-20K
1900C 15-20K
1900D 26-32 K
Metro 23 18-22K
Metro III 10-15K

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
andrewuber
Posts: 2142
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:45 am

Lease Prices?

Wed Oct 22, 2003 7:25 pm

Flying-Tiger, can you elaborate a little bit for us? I see your data from 2003 for the lease, does that mean you can get a Metro III for $10,000 to $15,000 per what - month? Year? Are these aircraft-only leases or ACMI?

Sorry to sound ignorant, but I'm intrigued! Thanks so much for your help!

Andrew
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
ArgInMIA
Posts: 475
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2001 4:07 pm

RE: How To Start An Airline

Wed Oct 22, 2003 11:27 pm

Flying-Tiger, are those numbers for dry lease? Since i got quotes for a Saab 340A for just 21K and 15-20k for a J31/32 sounds like too much
Alto.. Mucho mas alto.. hasta la cumbre
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Thu Oct 23, 2003 1:22 am

Don't forget about the costs of fuel, ground handling, and a reservations system, even if it's two computers hooked up to a similar database and reservations are made over the phone at the airport, you need something.

Regards...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
ArgInMIA
Posts: 475
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2001 4:07 pm

RE: How To Start An Airline

Thu Oct 23, 2003 1:27 am

All of that is included in my estimate and hundreds of other items..
Alto.. Mucho mas alto.. hasta la cumbre
 
richierich
Posts: 3289
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Thu Oct 23, 2003 1:42 am

Let me see:

- get $150 million in capital investments
- procure deals with an aircraft manufacturer and leasing companies for brand-new planes
- obtain gates at the desired hub airport
- start hiring and training!
- make your product stand out against the competition by giving the public much more than they expect for less than they normally would pay
- gain a loyal following by creating such a good brand image that no one wants to fly on the legacy carriers anymore


Wait a second - this sounds like JetBlue, circa 1999 and 2000!
None shall pass!!!!
 
mikesairways
Posts: 657
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:47 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:31 am

its simple...draw a triangle on a cocktail napkin  Smile
The red zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only, there is no stopping in the white zone...(Ai
 
JAFA
Posts: 740
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:31 pm

RE: How To Start An Airline

Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:17 pm

Get on e-bay and get a copy of "airline CEO for dummies".
Chapter 1. Airline economics forget about it
Chapter 2. Select the perfect livery
Chapter 3. Select the perfect hot towel
Chapter 4. Lets pick out a new plane
Chapter 5. get the most perfect PTV
Chapter 6. Pick the most glamorous routes
Chapter 7. Regularly consult airliner.net to see how to run your business
Chapter 8. Selecting a bankruptcy lawyer for cheap
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:10 pm

Could be well possible that a S340A might be cheaper than a J31/32. Don´t forget, the S340A is out of production for several years and the early frames are getting close to the 20 years age barrier whilest a J31/32 might be only a few years old and has a higher residual value and thus a higher leasing rate. If you wish, you could contact me: tiger-star@gmx.de

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
aviatortj
Posts: 1694
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:15 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:22 pm

Chapter 8. Selecting a bankruptcy lawyer for cheap

I'm sorry, but wasn't that formerly Chapter 11??
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:51 pm

I forgot to mention: the figures I have show for the 30-seaters:
J41 30K
D8-100 30-40K
D8-200/300 50-60K
EMB120 10-30K
328-100 30-50K
328-300 50K
S340A 20K
S340B 35K

You see that a quote of 21k for a S340A isn´t so cheap comapred to the average.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
ArgInMIA
Posts: 475
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2001 4:07 pm

RE: How To Start An Airline

Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:32 am

Well.. Looking at the EMB120 for 10 to 30k.. That's more like it.. How does the EMB120 compares to the saab340 in terms of block hour cost of operation? I know its somehow smaller.. 30seats compared to 34? With an EMB120 my numbers are much better.. Believe me.. Having 30 seats compared to 19 makes a HUGE difference.. Also the cabin is much more comfortable and it should be easier to sell.. Remember our main competition would be a 12 hr BUS ride..
Alto.. Mucho mas alto.. hasta la cumbre
 
BeltwayBandit
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:25 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Sat Oct 25, 2003 6:36 am

For a US airline you would need:

1. Operating Certificate (which requires a great deal of documentation, proof of financial capability, a maintenance program, several other programs and manuals, and several months of time to slog through the process).

2. Aircraft: Actually this is the easiest part. Expensive to get the right people, but easy once you do so. Lease negotiations (I've done many) center on the same basic issues, but as a startup, you simply want a turn-key aircraft. Expect to pay at least 3 months rent in advance -- more if you are in Latin America. Lessors are VERY uneasy about leases where repossession may be difficult.

3. People: Executives, flight crew, cabin crew, sales people, instructors, maintenance (you can contract some of this out, but you will need someone in-house to pass FAA muster). This is the tough part because you need to either have people on stand-by (paid) when you are ready to launch, or you need to rapidly hire and train people.

4. Gates/Slots/Hangar(s): Obviously.

5. Fuel and parts supply: You need an inventory of parts, unless a vendor is standing by.

6. Credit card processing: The secret lynchpin in the airline business! Without the ability to handle many thousands of dollars of credit card sales, you cannot sell tickets. Credit card processors are VERY wary of airlines because they can be stuck with a lot of liability if an airline files bankruptcy. Even if you can get a processor lined up, they will extract a great deal of cash collateral to protect themselves (often the equivalent of 30-60 days of sales).

7. MONEY: In addition to all the money required to do the above, you need marketing dollars. LOTS of marketing dollars if you expect to sell seats.

8. In the US, unless you occupy some special niche, you need to be getting 70-75% load factors to break even. Sad truth is that the relentless forces of competition have made the industry so efficient, that you can't earn a profit without doing this. If you don't get to profitability quickly, you'll have trouble with financing; so you need a real bankroll behind you.

[Edited 2003-10-24 23:38:04]
 
ArgInMIA
Posts: 475
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2001 4:07 pm

RE: How To Start An Airline

Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:20 am

Some things in South American are a little bit different,
1st LABOUR cost it's just not an issue...
2nd Gates and Slots.. Not a problem most of the airports are empty
3rd Lots of quality people currently unemployed.. Including pilots.. Managers... Sales people..
4th government help couse there is no other airline right now and they Really Need one..

So the main concerns are all the things that are payable in US dollars couse remember.. Argentinean Currency is devaluated.. (U$S 1 = 2.85 AR$) like Lease, parts and Fuel (at 1.75 US$ a gallon right now) and of course thank you for this new tip.. Credit card processing.. Also getting to fill 70 to 75% of the plane all the time at low fares its not going to be easy at all.. But.. Let me ask you.. Is it worth it?
Alto.. Mucho mas alto.. hasta la cumbre
 
Guest

RE: How To Start An Airline

Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:49 am

Friends -
xxx
I have been flying airplanes since age 15... 1958...
And as an airline pilot since 1969...
PanAm bankruptcy 1991...
Aerolineas Argentinas since 1993...
I am trying to survive myself...
xxx
Start an airline, invest little, get a few million $, then declare bankruptcy...
Get people, pilots, mechanics to work for low salaries, if not free...
Laugh your way to the bank...
xxx
If I was a billionaire, to be richer, I would not deal with the airline industry.
Not even with a 3 meters pole...
In 5 years I shall retire... and will avoid even talking about airplanes...
xxx
I am available to you -
Suitable VP.Ops, or Director of Training... my fee - US$10,000/mo...
Multilingual, captain/instructor qualified in 747 and many other types...
My bank account is in US$, in Uruguay...
Make a US$50,000 deposit, I accept to talk to you and assist...
No, I do not take collect calls...
xxx
Happy contrails -  Big grin
(s) Skipper
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:15 pm

ARGinMIA: Would you mind to contact me? I´ve a few questions I would like to ask you (email tiger-star@gmx.de).

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
liamksa
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 1:13 pm

RE: How To Start An Airline

Sun Nov 09, 2003 5:25 pm

G'day all

I've got no idea about South America but here in Australia and i'd imagine the US one of the bigger hurdles (money pits) is getting you Air Operators Certificate (AOC). In the case of a major airline the documents underlying the AOC include:

- Maintenance manual
- Flight manuals
- Operations manual
- Cabin Attendant manual
- Dangerous Goods manual
- Training manuals

These can cost millions to produce. Aside from all that good luck to you  Big thumbs up. It would be awesome if you could pull it off, but from what i gather it is an extremely tough business.

Seeya, Rob.
 
wgw2707
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:37 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Fri Nov 21, 2003 7:52 am

ARGinMIA, any updates on your work to start a regional airline? I would be interested to know how that is going.

-WGW2707
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Fri Nov 21, 2003 8:18 am

So we meet again, WGW2707. I had quite a few posts in your "TWA Regional" topic. I think it's great that you are serious about this.

I copy and pasted this from jetblue.com:

Start with a lot of money. JetBlue is the best-capitalized airline start-up in history. This means we are able to invest in the best product available. You'll see it in our new planes, comfy leather seats, free satellite TV and fast check-in technology.

Fly new planes. Our fleet of new Airbus A320s comes with a host of advantages. New aircraft are more reliable, so they spend less time on the ground where they don't make money. They're more efficient, so we spend less on fuel than other carriers. In fact, contrary to what you may have heard, the youngest fleet in the sky belongs to JetBlue.

Hire the best people. JetBlue screens employees rigorously, trains them well and gives them the best tools. That means our people are motivated and service-oriented. We love changing the industry for the better! It's what gets us out of bed in the morning.

Focus on Service. By offering our customers the best experience we can deliver, we find most of them come back regularly and tell their friends and family about us. It's not rocket science... our customers have given us incredible word-of-mouth recommendations. (And for that, we will always be grateful.)
 
SegmentKing
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:07 am

Here are some REAL numbers from a REAL airline (my own, although we don't fly these planes, we're looking at them all the time).

Cessna Grand Caravan will cost about $7,000 to $10,000 per month

Beech 1900Cs go for $9,500 per month

Beech 1900Ds go for as low as $15,000 per month

Jetstream 31/32s can be picked up for about $9k a month.

Embraer Brasilia 120RTs can go for as low as $19,000 a month.
120ERS can go for $22,000 to as high as $35,000 a month.

Dash 8-200s start at about $39,000 a month.

No idea on Saabs.

Metros start at about $10,000 a month.

The issue you guys forget about is INSURANCE. Insurance on a Brasilia is about $290k a year per plane, fyi. And most insurance companies require you prepay for a full year...

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
wgw2707
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:37 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:09 am

You know, if ARGinMIA couldn't get a lease on a newer turboprop, I wonder if a CV580 might do the trick? There are still a fair number of them around, and as an added plus, the comfort would probably be better than in a Jetstream...

-WGW2707
 
sjoic
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:31 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:17 am

WGW2707~
Hello, I was wondering if you received the email I sent you?
Jeff
 
wgw2707
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:37 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:23 am

I just got it in Sjoic. I'll read it now, btw if you need to contact me at any time I can be contacted via AOL Instant Messenger: wgw2024

-WGW2707
 
sjoic
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:31 am

RE: How To Start An Airline

Fri Nov 21, 2003 10:22 am

I think you need to check a few more facts before assuming everyone here is 16.
Jeff

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