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RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:13 am

KLM...

In any case...


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KLM... the Worlds Oldest Airline...


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Will remain and forever more in the hearts and in the souls of the people who built such a magnificent airline. KLM, may fly into history just as Concorde... yet another sign that "Civilized Travel", is coming to an end!



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KL777JFK
 
yqfca
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:35 am

KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:36 am

I read in a article featured in a Dutch publication that says that if the French government continues to reduce its chares in Air France (as it supposed to) the Dutch government will let go of its option to the shares in KLM. The option is kept to retain the landing rights the Netherlands has in foreign airports. If this continues as planned the name KLM may be dropped in 2008.
A KLM employee I called confirmed this statement.

I find this horrific.
Many nations advertise their excistence and cloud in commercial trade by their flag carriers. This means that if KLM disappears Holland would be not much more then a "province" of the EEC.

yqfca

 
levg79
Posts: 918
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2003 10:59 am

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:43 am

KLM Name Gone In Five Years.
...while their MD-11s would remain for another 4 years after that
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
 
bobrayner
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:51 am

Single national government-owned flag-carrier? Very 20th-century.

As was the EEC.
Cunning linguist
 
airways6max
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 6:22 am

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:59 am

Yeah, that is sad news. Less choice for the flying public.
 
caribb
Posts: 1507
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 1999 6:33 am

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Sun Oct 26, 2003 12:56 pm

Perhaps SkyTeam members will all fly under a single banner... something like "Alliance" or simply "SkyTeam" so no single nation stands out over the others. I think this is inevitable but it will take time to get to this point. It would be sad to see "KLM" dissappear but I think so will Air France, Delta and other well know brands also.
 
planeguy
Posts: 315
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:42 pm

Well if they must merge the two carriers, why not do so using some pan-european sounding name like "Euravia" and adopt a compromised looking tri-color livery resembling that of the older Air Liberte (after all the Dutch and French flags have the same colors) and maybe slap a blue EU star design on the tail. Then, voila, another generic megacarrier would be born.
 
nwacrew
Posts: 305
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 12:06 pm

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:05 pm

The disappearance of KLM would indeed be sad. But then the collapse of Sabena and Swissair was very sad. Unfortunately, there are too many national airlines in Europe with insufficient O&D traffic, all competing for the same interline passengers.

For years we've been reading that eventually just three big airlines will rule the skies in Europe: British Airways, Air France and Lufthansa. It may not come to that, but we can be certain that in the future, not every European country will have a flag carrier. It's going to be merge, or fail. I understand British Airways is presently negotiating to acquire Iberia...
 
MEA-707
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:32 pm

It's simple economics which will count in the end. If the airline will attract more business retaining KLM, they will do so, and if one single brand has advantages, they'll ditch the KLM brand.
Here in Holland reactions on the KLM Air France merger are mostly based on emotional arguments. Mainly dutch frequent travellers fear they once will have to board a dirty white plane and when they address the F/A in Dutch, she will reply in a snappy tone that she "ne peut pas parler cette language vulgaire."
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
jwenting
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:35 pm

I think 5 years is overly optimistic. Before those 5 years are over the airline carrying that proud old name will no longer exist anyway because their will be no aircraft flying carrying the name (their flights having been scrapped in an effort to 'consolidate' the network with Air France, in other words remove any destination served by Air France and shift all the others to Air France to be served from Paris).
I wish I were flying
 
nwacrew
Posts: 305
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 12:06 pm

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:40 pm

Excuse me! I'm at Schiphol frequently and I suggest you check out the routinely filthy grey tails of KLM's Fokker fleet before casting stones at Air France!
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:56 pm

It is sad indeed but

"...Holland would be not much more then a "province" of the EEC..."

is this not true already?

Brits here are still trying to cling on to the Sterling but once that goes - the UK will only follow suit to become another 'province'. We already have to comply with silly EU directives and laws which are often not applicable here in the UK...
 
KAL744
Posts: 359
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:05 am

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:03 am

As KLm is my second favorite airline it is really very sad news to me if they disappear !
fly Korean Air ....
 
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keesje
Posts: 9065
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:11 am

I think the name will not dissappear.

It is just on opinion of a dontknow in a far away newspaper..

Why ever remove the name, if have no clue on the advantages of that one.

KLM is a strong valuable Brand


"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
petertenthije
Posts: 3308
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:22 am

I don't think that KLM's name will dissappear altogether either. Maybe we will get an TUI kind of operation. All TUI airlines have the same livery, but their own name... Britannia, Hapag Lloyd etc.
Attamottamotta!
 
acvitale
Posts: 1911
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 8:25 am

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:44 am

While KLM is one of the oldest three airlines it is not as old as Chalks or Avianca.


Chalks was born nearly three months before KLM and Avianca less then 1 month before KLM..

A C Vitale
 
kaitak
Posts: 9031
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RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:52 am

I think it is most unlikely that the KLM name would be allowed to die; remember, the airline will still have a big AMS base and you can't expect the Dutch simply to accept that "as of next January, KLM planes will be repainted in AF colours". It simply won't happen. KLM is, despite its Northwest association, still a strong brand name with strong brand loyalty; it would be corporate suicide to throw away a good brand name and I think the people in charge of KLM, as well as AF, know this.

Besides which, KLM will be the first major airline in the world to celebrate a centenary and you can bet that will be a big event.

It's not about nostalgia either; hard business sense will dictate that the name stays; there's quite a few examples of companies which threw away a good brand name - and none of those stories have happy endings. So, don't worry, the KLM name will long outlive the MD11s.

Besides which, you don't think AF will want MD11s painted in its livery?
Mais non, certainment pas!
 
Going64
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:01 pm

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Mon Oct 27, 2003 7:02 am

@ACVITALE: Sorry to correct you but Avianca was founded in 1933. It was a merge between Pan American's SCADTA (established indeed in 1919) and Servicio Aereo Colombiana.
 
AMS
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Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 7:34 am

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Mon Oct 27, 2003 7:14 am

I still dont understand why the KLM management made these agreements with AF. KLM flies to many destinations arround the world,
in my opinion AF and KLM have too many differences

KLM management wake up, or fire these people who made these silly agreements.

regards,

AMS
 
SNBA319
Posts: 286
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:12 pm

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Mon Oct 27, 2003 7:02 pm

I agree with MEA-707; the brand will disappear, this is a business deal and no emotional ties from the Dutch can stop it.

Branding however is not unimportant; SNBA for instance is struggling to create its own brand whilst most people still immediately connect it to Sabena- or DAT. Those ties are stronger than one thinks and it could take a very long time before people have forgotten that. AF will know that.

But just talking about branding is not sufficient; there is more to taking over an airline than just changing the name or the livery. Not only will that cost a lot of money, and therefore take a lot of time, but it will take some internal patience making everybody adapt to the new corporate culture.
 
na
Posts: 9207
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:19 pm

I doubt KLM will disappear. That would be marketingwise unclever (killing an excellent brand is stupid, even Coca-Cola would be stupid to kill Pepsi if they would take-over) and would only drive away customers from the AF/KLM post-merger-company. And a new Dutch airline will rise and take part of the business mid-term.
Typical Merger-crap: Managers sit together and merge their companies, some get a payrise because the new company is bigger, others a "golden handshake".
The ordinary workforce will be reduced (some of them might find a job as drivers or gardeners for the managers who got rich through the golden handshake). And in the end part of the business will be lost because the united companies can´t keep it.

Btw whats happening with Martinair?
 
Reggaebird
Posts: 886
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RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:33 pm


Good morning ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the United States of Europe!
 
SNBA319
Posts: 286
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:12 pm

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:48 pm

That is also what I was wondering. Surely Martinair -and Transavia- won't be culled in the process of the takeover. These airlines form a strong bridge between fullservice KLM and budget Basiq Air. And will this mean the end of the Fokkerfleet in Dutch service?
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:06 pm

That's called capitalism.

When Vodafone took over Mannesmann, a very old German brand name disappeared. But do you hear us crying Britain would've taken over Germany? Do you hear us crying that Germany is nothing more than a Province in the EU? Bentley and Rolls Royce were two of the most-recognizable British brand names in the world. Nowadays they are owned by VW and BMW. Still, I don't think Brits feel like their country doesn't exist anymore. In a few years, the name Chrysler will be nothing more than a brand of the Daimler-Benz AG, but I'm confident that the USA will remain indepedent.

Get a life, we're talking about companies, it's not like Air France has kidnapped your Queen.
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:16 pm

It's sad that a old and established brand name such as KLM might cease to exist in a few years time. Unfortunately, this is the tragic way the europeans are heading.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:24 pm

I don't see what the problem is with having a pan-European identity (for airlines or people) - that is what the EU is about, allowing all European countries to deal with each other as equals (OK agreed, as per George Orwell, some countries are more equal than others eg. France always doing what it wants). But the idea is good.

After how ever many centuries of warfare in Europe, I hope we can all agree that nationalism is a Bad Thing, but also that preserving a cultural identity is not necessarily the same as nationalism. That said, I don't see that the colour scheme on an aircraft has much to do with cultural identity.

Certain things belong in the dustbin of history along with rampant nationalism, and one of them is the notion that each country in Europe has to have a flag carrier, come what may. Economically it makes no sense - its like saying each of the 50 US states has to have major airline hub - they don't.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
tripple7
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 8:53 pm

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:35 pm

@ SNBA319

KLM is going to sell it's stake in Martinair.
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:39 pm

Martinair will be the perfect candidate to fill the gap when the KLM flights will move to CDG. They already have all the infrastructure in place at AMS en is already moving away from the charter business and focussing more on Scheduled service and cargo.
 
SNBA319
Posts: 286
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:12 pm

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:49 pm

I was merely trying to approach the upcoming changes from the perspective of the brand value of KLM (in NL at least) and how Mr Spinetta could use its current value to sustain business. Indeed, the plane livery will not change the cultural heritage which is probably a comforting thought for many KLM employees.

Comparing airlines with mobile phone operators, or reviving old takeover sores, is not completely suitable. After all you can't compare making a phone call to spending hours in an aircraft, whether in service or on holiday. Rolls Royce for instance, it is obviously still a brand. Why, because it represents a certain brand value towards its clients, and it can be distinguished from other cars. Do you think KLM as a brand could be positioned -maybe under a different name- to serve specific publics? How about DAF as a new name?

 
killerbabe
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 3:47 am

RE: KLM Name Gone In Five Years.

Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:52 pm

No way. KLM Will live on. It has strong partners in numerous areas and a lot of, political arranged landing-rights.... KLM Will stay....

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