b752fanatic
Posts: 892
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 1:44 am

Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:22 am

Im sorry if this topic has been covered so much, but why the A330/A340 family a/c take so much time for climb?

The B747-400 is way more heavier than the A340 and it climbs with more speed.

Is it the design? is it the engine power?

Could some one tell me...

Regards...
"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:30 am

The A330 does not take forever to claim. It actually climbs quite quickly.

Regarding the A340, yes it is a slow climber, but only the A340-200/300. The A340-200/300 is powered by CFM56-5C which provides 34,000lb. of thrust. At the time the A340-200/300 was in development, there was no other engine available that was suitable. The CFM56-5C was the only one and was sufficient although a bit underpowered for the A340, but not to the point where it would be a safety threat.

There were talks a while ago about Airbus offering a re-engining program to re-engine the A340-200/300 for airlines that want more power. I forgot what engine they were offering. It never happened though.

The new A340-500/600 take-off like rockets because of the new 51,000lb. of thrust Rolls-Royce Trent 500s.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
ka
Posts: 573
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 11:49 am

RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:40 am

From an ATC point of view the problem with A343/342 only exists until about FL70. From that point on the a/c has sufficient speed for a climb performance which is comparable to other langrange heavies.

KA.
Keep smiling - you might be on Radar!
 
keesje
Posts: 8594
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RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:44 am

Airlines keep ordering the 343, so obviuosly they don´t mind.

A332 ? not noticed that, on the contrary ...
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
KAL744
Posts: 359
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:05 am

RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:00 am

I have flown on Korean Air Airbus 330 several month ago and in my opinion I think the climb rate was quite well. Anyway, it was just a short flight leg from GMP to CJU but as the flight was full I think it did really well.
fly Korean Air ....
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:01 am

**Im sorry if this topic has been covered so much, but why the A330/A340 family a/c take so much time for climb?**

Because the curvature of the earth isn't that great  Nuts
 
Tom_EDDF
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:12 am

It's just to give you a nice sightseeing! I always enjoyed flying onboard of LH's A342's out of Phoenix, watching the superstition mountains and the people rushing through the streets in scottsdale...

Anyway, as others already mentioned, it's because of the just good enough power of the A340-200/300, it's not at all the case with the A330. And the 747s can also be slow climbers if close to MTOW, in fact, the -100 was a horrible climber if heavy loaded.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:14 am

Airlines keep ordering the 343, so obviuosly they don´t mind.

They do?

The bird's gained what... like three new customers since the turn of the decade?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:15 am

Well in my understanding much of the 343's climbing perfo problems had been solved with the latest versions: the A340-313X.

As I'm flying on the 330 I can tell you it has an average climbing perfo.
The 330-200 is even a very good performer I can tell you !!


FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:20 am

the latest versions: the A340-313X

Actually, the latest version would be A343E
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
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RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:25 am

FB,
what's the climb rate like on the 330 from about FL200-340 or so on your longer routes such as FIH?
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4888
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RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:25 am

Wow, Ka, I didn't know the A340 was even capable of flying at 70000 feet. That's far more impressive than anything else Airbus has ever done.

I'm so funny.

But seriously, the A330 climbed just fine, as I remember. It's not a 737 or 757, but then it's a lot heavier, so who would expect it to be?

R
 
star_world
Posts: 943
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2001 7:52 am

RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:46 am

Well aren't u funny AA737-823?  Smile I presume you do know that FL70 makes perfect sense in Europe (and is the FL equivalent of 7,000ft), the transition alititude isn't fixed at 18,000ft as it is in the US...

star_world
 
Tom_EDDF
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 7:15 am

Flying Belgian:

If there were serious "problems" with the A340's climb performance, they have not been solved with the intro of neither the -313X nor the -313E, as they feature not only more powerful engines, but also a much higher MTOW (up to 275t vs. 257t for the -311).

What has been solved with the -313series was the issue with the long-range performance by increasing fuel capacity and MTOW.
 
CRJmx
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:00 am

RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 7:29 am

Why didn't Airbus have someone develop an engine for the early A340's? It only makes sense to have an engine that is right for the aircraft, not one that will "work". As a "more power" kind of guy, I just don't see how under-powered, or slightly under-powered is acceptable in aircraft design. If you're going to design a plane right, get the right engines for the job, not just some that are "available".

When it hits your lips, it's so good!!
 
ka
Posts: 573
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 11:49 am

RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 7:48 am

AA737-823:
"Wow, Ka, I didn't know the A340 was even capable of flying at 70000 feet. That's far more impressive than anything else Airbus has ever done"

Just for your information AA737-823: We here in Europe also use flightlevel allocation below 18000ft. At the airport I am controlling the transition altitude is 5000ftfor example.
FL70 indicates 7.000ft not 70.000ft!

Please read correctly and be informed before commenting.

KA.
Keep smiling - you might be on Radar!
 
Tom_EDDF
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:11 am

CRJmx:

Airbus indeed *had* someone developing an engine for the A340 - it was International Aeroengines (IAE) who failed to get the proposed V2500-SuperFan running. The design would have been a modified V2500 (like those used on the A32x) with a larger fan and an extremely high bypass ratio.

As we know, the design never went into production and Airbus had to select an alternative powerplant for the A340 in the late design phase. As more powerful alternatives would have been to heavy for the wing (the RR RB211-535 or PW2037 come to mind), the cfm56 was the only alternative.

Rumors say that launch customer LH was so much pissed of by IAEs inability to develop the proposed engine that they switched the engines for the A320s from the V2500 to the CFM56 as well (I guess it was more a matter of commonility back then, they indeed ordered V2500 power A321 later on).

Cheers,
T.
 
CRJmx
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:00 am

RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:21 am

Thanks Tom. Maybe it wasn't such a bad thing. I've heard that the V2500's aren't that great, reliability wise.
When it hits your lips, it's so good!!
 
Turtle
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2001 5:54 am

RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:35 am

Ka,
I suggest you lighten up. The purpose of this forum for us ignorants is to GET INFORMED. AA737-823 interpreted it as 70000 ft, make a silly comment out of it and Star_world cleared it up. Now A737-823, I and probably others here in the US learned something new and that's a good thing.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:51 am

Heh I think he was joking anyway.

IAE had lots of trouble with the superfan... mostly wanting too much, like a 10:1 bypass ratio. It would have been the perfect engine.

N
 
ual777
Posts: 1491
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:40 pm

I have heard that the A343 mechanics are having fits with all the bird strikes from behind....... Yeah sure
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
wing
Posts: 1357
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RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 5:27 pm

Hi Ka,
As I understand you work at ATC.Which airport in Germany are you working for.I am a frequent visitor at most German Airports with my company.WING
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
ka
Posts: 573
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 11:49 am

RE: Why The A340/A330 Takes So Much Time To Climb?

Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:12 pm

Wing:

Yes I am APP controller, but I don´t want to talk about the exact airport here on the forum for different reasons. If you give me an email adress I am happy to answer it personally to you.

Thanks for understanding,
KA.
Keep smiling - you might be on Radar!

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