UA744Flagship
Topic Author
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Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Tue Oct 28, 2003 6:55 pm

I'd just like to say I've been getting more and more impressed with Northwest's rebranding. It has already gone a long way to makeover a once tired and ridiculed brand (ie 'northworst bowling shoe') into an airline not only geared towards business travelers, but the airline for SAVVY business travelers.

Its ad rollout both in print, television, and online (I haven't heard any radio spots yet) has been very cohesive. The "hi-tech" look of the silver on its planes associates with the slick new look of its World Business class, the motif from its exceptionally aesthetically pleasing website goes along with its ads in the WSJ. (tagline: Now you're flying smart.

Its television commercial features contemporary elements of style: slowed/sped up and spliced motion, an electronic hymn, and that always sophisticated and cutting edge british "computer voice" narration. (Know what I mean?)

One of the most integral parts of the new brand is the change of name to reflect a more global sounding airline. Taking note of British Midland's successful rebranding into bmi British Midland, Northwest's branding agency chose to represent NW as nwa NORTHWEST AIRLINES. In addition, incorporating the new logo with the catchy name 'nwa' goes a step ahead of bmi, since bmi has no identifiable logo and merely a logotype.

Northwest's new logo, while unnerving for people who liked the cleverness of the old one and loathe the fact that the compass pointer is opposite on the starboard side of the plane, really supercedes the cleverness of the old logo. How? It is one of the only brands that combines a logotype with a logo.

The A319, in particular, showcases well the new look of an airline that really does appear to be flying smarter. I used to be a Northwest basher myself, but I have grown to quickly admire their latest efforts.

Look at the ingenious combined logo/logotype on the A319! Perfect!

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Photo © Richard Barsby



Just the right amount of color and logo size.

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Photo © Keith Bradley

no wire hangers!
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:58 pm

Agreed completely. I was skeptical at first, but it's catching on -- from the web site to the planes to the brand to the ads.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
contrails
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:01 pm

I have to admit it is eye-catching. I recently saw a NW DC-9 sitting in the bright sunlight at DCA, and it was impressive. I think I like it a bit more every day.
Flying Colors Forever!
 
Trvlr
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:32 pm

I still think this is the worst livery we've seen on a major airline in the United States in a long time.

The compass doesn't even point northwest! "Now You're Flying Backwards", perhaps?

Still, if it catches on with the business traveler, then best of luck to NW.

Aaron G.
 
plugger
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smar

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:34 pm

There is hope for NW to be sure. Their new look is indeed impressive and the best they've ever had since the old blue cheatline days. Now if they can improve their inflight training program and teach their FAs how to smile and be polite they'd have a good thing going. The jury is still out on that aspect of their service. Their check-in people could use a Dale Carnegie course as well.
Once those things are handled then they still need to tackle their famously mediocre catering.
 
Dtw757
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:57 pm

"Now if they can improve their inflight training program and teach their FAs how to smile and be polite they'd have a good thing going."

I guess it just depends on the individual FA. I recently sat in an exit row on a NWA flight from MSP-DTW and was talking the the FA's facing me. They were two of the nicest people you could meet. I've also had the same experience on a NWA flight from DTW-AMS. On a whole I would say that most of the FA's I've come in contact with were really nice. I think Northwest is doing a great job.
721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
 
electraBob
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:33 am

I have seen many newly painted NW aircraft and am quite amazed at the new colors. The color seems to change depending on the sky conditions and the location of the sun. I have seen some newly painted aircraft that appear to look grey, some look bright silver, and some actually appear to have a gold tint in the color. No matter what the color, they are simply beautiful.

Was out at DTW yesterday, and saw 2 new A330's land back to back. I had to look around and make sure I was actually at DTW.
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.....
 
AIR757200
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:01 am

I saw a commercial on ABC last night. I liked the tagline.

Was out at DTW yesterday, and saw 2 new A330's land back to back. I had to look around and make sure I was actually at DTW.

I still haven't spotted one flying over my house yet on arrival into DTW. I'll be moving to Milford (33 mile drive to airport when I go back to work!) soon and there is hardly any traffic up there (if there is, they are much higher).
 
SNBA319
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:02 am

I agree with you folks this is quite a stunning livery. It is both dynamic and smart with distinctly modern appearance and does not in the least look tacky.

I also like the way nwa have incorporated both the logo and the logotype in their website and for instance their newspaper (forgot the name). Although to complete this it would look very nice in shiny layout in stead of the newspaper material they use now. I Guess it costs too much for such a big airline.

I actually still have to see the first one in real life...
 
BAGSMASHER
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:54 am

The new image does look much better than the old but they (NW) have said that there are no plans at this time to refurbish the ticket counter areas, gates, ground equipment or anything else the public sees into the new look. That is consistent with NW's history of being inconsistent. Good job NWA management on another classic fumble- it figures coming from Minnesota!
 
motech722
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:14 am

The new Northwest livery is certainly one of the sharpest flying in the skies today. It's always interesting to watch a company reinvent itself. I know many people who are disgusted that they have done away with the old logo, and maybe it is just me, but the new logo still has the essence of the old one. When looking at the old and new logos...


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Photo © Tim Samples


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Stephen Wilcox - CARGYVR



...it seems to me that all NWA really did was take away the "N" portion of the old logo and increase the size. I know that some people don't like that the new logo points to the Northeast when looking at the planes' right side, but it is simply a mirror image of the logo, making the plane look very sharp.

A few days ago there was a thread on here about why the US flag appears "backwards" on aircraft. The reason is because if you fly it, then the stars are always in the front, hence on one side it looks "backwards" but it is just the mirror image, like what NWA has done with their paint scheme.

Just like other airlines have done in the past few years, NWA has adopted to putting their name on the side of the plane in large letters, but what makes this scheme so unique is that they primarily use the "nwa" while incorporating "Northwest Airlines" underneath. A very cool design (whereas Airlines like America West and Frontier have the name plastered on the side of the plane alone).

All said, Northwest has done a very good job reinventing itself. BAGSMASHER, you bring up an interesting point that NWA is not revamping their ticket counters yet, but I'm sure they will in time. I remember when AWA began repainting their aircraft, it took time to upgrade their counters to the new scheme. It is definitely not something an airline can do overnight.

Take Care
 
TWFirst
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RE: Bagsmasher

Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:15 am

>>That is consistent with NW's history of being inconsistent. Good job NWA management on another classic fumble- it figures coming from Minnesota!<<


Well that's a completely ignorant comment if I've ever read one.

On the contrary, NW's branding has traditionally been extremely consistent. All signage, counters, ground equipment, planes, ALL THE SAME.

So they're going to gradually phase this rebranding in... what the hell does that have to do with being headquartered in Minnesota???


Let's think about some of the present and past competition before we speak out of our butt, shall we?...

Delta: Need I say any more?

United: The titles and livery on their planes hasn't matched any other titles/promotional items/etc. for years.

TWA: To the very end, not all of its aircraft were in the same livery

Southwest: Are all nearly 400 planes in the new "Canyon Blue" livery yet? And how long ago did that process start?


Rebranding is a huge, expensive undertaking, and takes time. Northwest did a fantastic job last time around, and they've started out nicely this time. Everything eventually will be rebranded... just because they don't have a defined timeline for all the ancillary items (ticket counters, etc.) has nothing to do with the airline being based in Minnesota.


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
SCRAMJET
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:20 am

In response to "Now you're flying backwards", I'd just like to say that the compass on both sides of the plane points forward.

It's sort of like the backwards US flag on the right side of an aircraft.
If you look at the back of a USD20 bill, the flag on the White House is flying BACKWARDS! GASP! Is that un-patriotic? No, it's depends on what side of the flying flag you're looking at.

End of discussion  Smile .
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:55 am

I'm flying NW's new A330 transatlantic in December. I hope the service and everything else about the airline follows through on this new "image", which I like very much. I have a hard time believing that US airlines can change, though....
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
EGGD
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:02 am

I've liked the c/s from the start, despite the cynics in the original thread about it, I still think it looks great, especially as you say on the A319, but on most (except maybe the 757) it looks really good..

Cheers

Dan
 
Sean-SAN-
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 4:22 am

Business travelers usually don't choose their airline from witty ads or fancy liveries. Instead, it's a complicated combination of price, service, perks, and destinations.

Price - NW competes well against the other majors.

Service - Everyone has their opinions of NW. However, for business travelers, the lack of power ports for laptops and the lackluster first class (legroom, no winged head rests) is a minus.

Perks - NW has one of the best FF programs available. Free domestic upgrades. However, award availability and international upgrades aren’t as good as AA or UA.

Destinations - NW is weak in the west but has a strong mid-west & east coast presence. Also strong in Asia and Europe (via KLM). South America isn't too bad with CO alliance.


 
Guest

RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smar

Wed Oct 29, 2003 4:26 am

I almost agree with you.

But, without any hard facts as to what the actual uptake is among the so-called class of "savvy business travelers," I remain skeptical about how well this advertising campaign or any other will do in repositioning Northwest in the marketplace.

My own initial impressions of the campaign based on a few commercials and ads I've seen: Yes the look is very contemporary and cutting edge. But it is also quite cool and at least in one commercial I looked at the whole setting appeared to be CGI-generated, and not in a good way.

As for the content of the campaign, it is really just covering the basics, what the airline does best. That's a good thing to be doing at difficult financial times like this. Emphasize what you do best.

Here is where my skepticism over the campaign comes in. Let's say the real "saavy" business traveler already has a good grasp of what each airline does well. In that case, this commercial only serves to remind him of what Northwest does well, but it doesn't give him any further incentive to fly Northwest or to try Northwest, especially if he already knows that some of the other airlines also offer some of the same things like kiosks, e-tickets, etc.

Compare that effect to the one produced by the AA ad about what you can do with your AAdvantage Frequent Flyer miles. Here we see real faces saying where they can go with their AAdvantage miles. Again, this add may just be covering the basics. But, it also makes an implicit promise of some surplus value that accrues to those who fly American. (Hey Martha, did you know we can save up our miles to go to Rio?). This appeal is effective across demographic lines. It could be directed at the vacation flyer who hasn't thought much about his AAdvantage account balance, but is now planning a trip. It could also be directed at the spouse of the Frequent Flyer who is sitting at home alone while her husband is on a business trip. It is a reminder to all of these people of the value of flying American.

More sckepticism: Given the success of JetBlue's marketing campaign and that of Southwest before them ("You are now free to fly around the country."), I thought that most advertising agencies would be wary of launching stylized image campaigns like this one, at least in the airline sector. Why, you ask? Because it is not what is working. What is working is what JetBlue and Southwest are doing? In general, their campaigns talk to their customers in a very folksy and from time to time witty and cynical way. It is worth pointing out as well that the basis for that cynicism and wit is sometimes the customer service record of the network carriers. Against that backdrop, it is hard for such a stylized campaign like Northwest's not to be greeted by the everyday person (business travelers included) with some degree of cynicism. (Just how many people have sons who have an interest in watercolors that leads to a trip to MOMA. It is an urbane and elitist scenario that most Americans, even the elites, will great with some cynicism.)

Again, the basis for comparison here is AA's current advertising campaign. Talking a page out of the LCC advertising handbook, AA has real people talking face to face to the camera about what flying on American means to them. You can tell they are in an airport and you can see one or two images of the side of a plane. But, the stylistic emphasis remains on the testimonial experience of catching up with someone and asking them for their opinion on the fly. While we are on the subject, it cannot be ignored that the slogan pays homage to the "I buy American" campaign, which tried to get Americans to buy US made products. It was a brilliant creative move to parrot that slogan at at time when Americans are still basking in their post 9/11 solidarity.

Of course, Northwest was not starting out from the same place as AA. There is nothing about the current or former Northwest brand that was classic. So, they couldn't assume that there were things that the American consumer already knew about them. They may have been trying to create a brand new brand from scratch. If that is the case, I can see why they ended up with a campaign fitting their purpose, if not the actual mode and tenor of the times.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 4:31 am

From a Biz perspective NW still has a long way to go. WBC is pretty poor when compared to CO BizFirst.

NW Domestic First is often inconsistent.

So far this year I've flown 90 segments on NW, KL, & XJ, all in first and WBC, and for the most part XJ does the best job of the three!
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
jcs17
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smar

Wed Oct 29, 2003 5:12 am

I like the new style, however it will go out of style as quickly as the brown, orange, and yellow USAir livery.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Guest

RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 5:48 am

I like the new style, however it will go out of style as quickly as the brown, orange, and yellow USAir livery.
Tell that to American Airlines. NW's colors are very similar, except you can't polish an Airbus easily... thus they decided to paint it.

That is consistent with NW's history of being inconsistent.
Actually, NW has a history of being consistant -- that's why there's no IFE, meals are served from a cart, etc.
 
SNBA319
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:01 am

About the branding; with such a large company serving so many airports it is not hard to imagine that rebranding all your representing stations top-down calls for a heck of an organisation but also huge amounts of money and bureaucratic negotiations at the airports etc.  Sad So obviously this will take quite a while before this is all turned over. Don't expect this to be like repainting planes and you're finished.

The real time-consuming effort is now being put into practice. I really don't think that their new corporate branding will be reduced to the livery and website...
 
CRJmx
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:17 am

"That is consistent with NW's history of being inconsistent."

How?

"Good job NWA management on another classic fumble"

Sounds like a disgruntled employee to me.

"it figures coming from Minnesota!"

What does Minnesota have to do with anything? That's just a stupid statement.


***Oh, by the way, I really like the new scheme. I like more every time I see it.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

When it hits your lips, it's so good!!
 
Trvlr
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:47 am

In reference to "Now You're Flying Backwards":

In the previous Northwest livery, the compass points in the right direction, whichever side of the aircraft it was on. There is no denying that half of NW aircraft are better suited for "Northeast Airlines" than Northwest.

The American flag, on the other hand, is commonly viewed from all sides. One never looks at a compass from behind.

To be fair, this discrepancy is purely aesthetic, and will not in any way create confusion among the key business traveler. But aesthetically it still is a major, even laughable gaff, and I am surprised that Northwest did not put more effort into correcting it.

Not quite the end of discussion.  Big grin

Aaron G.

[Edited 2003-10-28 22:47:28]
 
zona8
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:52 am

Are they redoing the inside of the planes?
 
BillElliott9
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 8:20 am

The biggest reason for the new scheme was cost savings! Based upon this premise it will be a while before the entire transformation takes place, and justifiably so.
You can fight without ever winning but never really win without a fight.
 
NWAA330
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 8:29 am

I was outside in the backyard of my home in suburban Detroit and looked up to see a brand new NWA A330 flying very low over head. The sun was just right and it was really one of the sleekest and best looking planes ive ever seen. I have also seen the commercials and as people have said before emphasizing their strong points (DTW worldgateway, technology, etc.) is the way to go. Great job NWA so far, hopefully it will only get better.

Zona8,
They are completely redoing their international coach and business class products (these upgrads are already taking place and can be found on the A330 and 744,) unfortunately for now their domestic product will remain unchanged.

NWAA330
To Fly is to Live.
 
UA744Flagship
Topic Author
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smar

Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:04 am

Business travelers usually don't choose their airline from witty ads or fancy liveries. Instead, it's a complicated combination of price, service, perks, and destinations.

Sean,

You know me. You know I know this.  Smile

Fact: nwa has more "low-mid level" and "lower fare" elites than a typical network carrier. This is where the growth in business travel is -- at the low but flexible fare buckets. (See various airline analyst reports...most notably there is the latest report by the Business Travel Coalition saying biz travel is poised to rebound, but at much lower fare premiums only.)

Fact: nwa was the first to implement international online check-in.

Fact: nwa is the only US airline to offer a lie-flat business class product.

Fact: nwa has the potential for super-efficient SuperHub at Detroit.

Based on these, and nwa's yield/revenue performance, I would say nwa has a very smart value proposition.

When low-mid level elites (reiterating: the only segment of biz travel that will grow or return to pre 09/11 levels again) do most of their travel domestically, the fact that F is lackluster pales to the simple pleasure of complimentary upgrades.

CO has the same policy, but CO does not have the potential at IAH for a super-efficient SuperHub, does not have as generous of a FF program (see the latest changes to Elite Qualifying Miles accrual).

From what I can gather, nwa is counting on the success of its DTW complex along with product improvements and a slick new campaign to position itself as a business-friendly "value" airline.
no wire hangers!
 
syncmaster
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:19 am

Just to let you know I was in CVG yesterday and walked by a NW gate in Concourse A that was completely rebranded, as was the ground equipment.
 
N766UA
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:20 am

Northwest used to stand out on the tarmac, now it's just another monotoned fusulage. I lost track of a DC-9 today as it taxied past American's gates.

Long live the bowling shoe!
This Website Censors Me
 
timf
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:18 pm

Syncmaster, was that one of the new gates Northwest is moving to so they are in the same terminal as Delta? It makes sense for them to be using new signage on a brand new gate, because they have to spend money on branding the gate anyway. As is the case with the way they're painting planes, they are only introducing the new logo through standard refurbishment schedules. If Northwest moves to a new gate or terminal, or the old signage is worn out then they'll replace it. Otherwise, they aren't going to spend money to replace or repaint something just to change the logo.
 
flybynight
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:36 pm

Biggest minus for me with NW is the behind-the-times cabins. No PTV's (well, the new A330's have them) and really a pretty plain business class.
When I lived in Detroit, the check-in lines were the worst I have ever seen. Of course, this was 5 years ago, so I might not be giving NW a chance (esp. with the new airport in Detroit).
Also, if compare prices, you'd think NW would be cheaper, but they seldom are.

Heia Norge!
 
Guest

RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:50 pm

Biggest minus for me with NW is the behind-the-times cabins. No PTV's (well, the new A330's have them) and really a pretty plain business class.

Within a couple years, the A330 will have replaced the DC-10 across the Atlantic. By the end of next year, every B744 will have the new WBC while the B742 will likely be retired. When economics prevail, the B744 will receive the same main cabin (PTVs, increased leg room & all) as the A330.

Regarding PTVs, it's not as though NW's too far behind. AA only has them on their B777 - which make-up less than half their transoceanic/South America fleet. UA has them on every transoceanic/South American flight. DL has them on only 8/70+ planes devoted to transoceanic/South American flying. CO has them on all their widebodies, but the B752 operate a fair amount of their long-haul flying to South America and Europe (especially during the off-season). US has them on less than half their widebody fleet.

When I lived in Detroit, the check-in lines were the worst I have ever seen.

A lot has changed in five years. Even still, I don't think check-in lines were ever worse than those at ATL, ORD, ATL, etc.

Also, if compare prices, you'd think NW would be cheaper, but they seldom are.

Nobody said cheaper -- they said compeitive. From my observations, NW is usually just as compeitive or better than its competition price-wise. This makes a big difference -- for example, in the DTW market, UA seldom has the lowest price. This sucks if you're looking to invest in a FF program on your own dollar.

- - -

It's not like NW's management is stupid. They will award 100% EQM miles toward all DL fares -- obviously an attempt to poach SkyMiles members who travel 25K or more on a mixture of cheap & premium fares.
 
flybynight
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:26 pm

Well, I could spend days comparing ticket prices between NW and say UA.
So, I took one example. To be fair, I used non-hub cities, but one served by both airlines pretty evenly. Also, I picked my home area (eventhough I no longer live there) with a destination served about equally by both airlines.
I picked mid-January flying dates, with a 10-day stay - so EWR to Honolulu.
UA best price is 624.72 .
NW best price is 674.72
So, with UA I can, with a little careful picking of flights, spend most of my time on a nice 777, while on NW I get a 20+ year old DC10. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing DC10's in the air, but when it is my butt INSIDE the plan, I want comfort and a PTV.
If I upgrade to business, NW falls further behind.
My point is not to make NW look bad, but I do want to point-out, for MY dollar, I get more with UA.
Of course, you can find examples where NW is cheaper, but it seems harder to find.
One big plus, on a 13 hour flight to Japan several years ago, I flirted with the hottest flight attended I've ever seen (yes, that was on NWA)
Heia Norge!
 
Guest

RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:46 pm

If I upgrade to business, NW falls further behind.
UA has no PTVs on flights to HNL (they operate two-class B763/B777 in a domestic configuration) ... NW also offers a superior First Class, as they use WBC seating compared to UA's standard First.

PTVs and new planes are grossly overrated on this board. KL operates 2-year-old B737 that appear 20-years-old on the inside, CO operates 20-years-old B737 that appear 2-years-old on the inside. Also, CO's B767 aircraft can be extremely uncomfortable due to the positioning of the "video equipment" box for the PTV and the amount of room it takes:

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/industrialpatent/vwp?.dir=/My+Photos&.dnm=x.jpg&.view=t

Also notice in that picture how bad the seat looked... the seating tray didn't look any better.

- - -

RE: Pricing
Orbitz is a poor source of information as many of the fares prove to be, after giving CC info & clicking confirm, unbookable. The best source is the airline itself (on its website or what not). NW has compeitive fares published in the markets it serves... out of all the network carriers, they're the most consistant in publishing compeitive fares. But that doesn't mean many passengers will fly IAH-MSP/DTW-LAX in the end.

- - -

I'm not saying NW's the greatest airline, I'm saying the offer a very good, overall compeitive product... they don't deserve to be "bashed" as much as they are on this fourm.
 
JMChladek
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 5:34 pm

Well, the livery has been growing on me. I do like the red tail and silver fuselage colors. The silver body also brings back elements of earlier Northwest Orient, except IMHO the silver doped finish looks a lot better then the 70s metal look with the blue and white stripes (which gave the planes an unfinished look to me). But, the "NWA" on the side does seem to sound like the name of a professional wrestling organization to me (maybe that has more to do with a former governor of Minnesota).  Big grin

As for the product, most of my flying has been and probably will continue to be domestic for the foreseeable future with the exception of my first solo international trip to the UK in three weeks (on AA and BA). I compared the ticket prices several ways for a recent OMA to SAT trip and a NW/CO codeshare gave me my best price compared to AA and Delta (WN didn't have anything on the dates I needed, even though they fly to both OMA and SAT). The service on the NW return leg of the flight was comparable to CO (some pluses, some minuses in comparison, but no problems) and the NW pricing for the codeshare was also less then a dedicated CO flight. I have done AA flights on this route in the past and I doubt they could have performed better for a nearly 1000 mile trip with one plane change at a hub. For this flying, the only IFE is what you bring to entertain you on the flight (book, CD player, camera etc.).

As for the change itself, NW and CO seem to be the best off of all the domestic carriers (not counting LCCs) financially and this change adds freshness to the mix. I'm sure more changes are coming, but they will take time and aircraft repaint is the one thing that doesn't add any major cost to a revamping since planes are going to be repainted anyway during their regular major maintenance cycles. That way, if the revamping isn't well received (ala BAs World Tails), then there isn't a big loss financially.
 
azjubilee
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Wed Oct 29, 2003 11:05 pm

NW is moving their operations to Delta's terminal 3 concourse A as of November 1. The jetways are the same jetways from terminal 1. Gates 11 and 13 will be used. The nwa checkin counter is on the west side of the lobby in terminal 3.



AZJ
 
767Lover
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:10 am

Good job NWA management on another classic fumble- it figures coming from Minnesota!

What a completely idiotic statement. I've never been to Minnesota, but I can tell you that it is home to a number of very sophisticated, leading-edge companies -- Target, for one, which has brilliant creative and branding (for you international members, Target is a low-cost retail chain) and also Fallon McElligott, known as one of the best advertising agencies in the U.S. if not the world.
 
Guest

RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:13 am

Target, for one, which has brilliant creative and branding (for you international members, Target is a low-cost retail chain)...

ah-hem: Target use to be known as the Dayton-Hudson's corporation -- Dayton's was an upscale department store in MN, Hudson's was the same thing in MI. A few years ago the company bought Marshall Field's, changed the name of all Dayton & Hundson stores to Marshall Field's and renamed the company Target. Marshall Field's is the reason you don't find Macy's in MN, IL or MI. Target also owns Mervyn's.
 
TWFirst
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RE: Industrial Pate

Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:33 am

>>ah-hem: Target use to be known as the Dayton-Hudson's corporation -- Dayton's was an upscale department store in MN, Hudson's was the same thing in MI. A few years ago the company bought Marshall Field's, changed the name of all Dayton & Hundson stores to Marshall Field's and renamed the company Target. Marshall Field's is the reason you don't find Macy's in MN, IL or MI. Target also owns Mervyn's.<<


I'm not sure what all that info has to do with 767Lover's observation that MN is home to companies known for brilliant creative and branding (such as Target, which is true), but a few corrections to your post:

1) The former name of the company wasn't possessive (it was Dayton Hudson Corp., not Dayton Hudson's)

2) DHC bought Marshall Field's in 1990.

3) The company renaming itself Target had nothing to do with the Field's acquisition.

4) DHC opened its first Target store in the Twin Cities suburb of Roseville in 1962 I believe.

5) DHC chose to rename itself Target in 1999 or 2000 I believe, due to the Target division providing around 80% of its revenue.

6) Target Corp. then chose to start marketing its department store operations under one brand (the best known one): Marshall Field's in 2001 I believe.

7) There IS Macy's in MN, as well as Bloomingdale's and Nordstrom... there will be a second Nordstrom built in suburban Minneapolis in the near future. Other major department store companies also operate in Chicago and Michigan.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
flybynight
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Thu Oct 30, 2003 9:56 am

IndustrialPate -
I certainly do not hate NW. I love the airline industry, but when you’ve had several cases of bad experiences with an airline, one does tend to be a little pessimistic.
As for the ticket prices, I took both United’s and Northwest’s prices from their webpages.
Just last week I flew a UA 762 in business class, and it did have swing-up type video monitor for watching whatever movie they had available. So I’m going to assume that business class on a newer 763 would offer at least the same. I know the schedules change all the time, but at least some of the 777's going to HON do have PTV's.
I believe most people rate (and to be honest I am one of them) NW a notch below UA, AA, DL and CO. A lot of this has to do with the older fleet.
My wife had some frustrating experiences when we lived in the Detroit area with NW canceling flights for no apparent reason. I still believe the reason was due just a few passengers on the plane, and NW didn’t want to fly it back to Detroit.
I have given a lot of business to NW over the years, and I will likely fly them again, but I still see them as a notch below the other big boys.
Maybe some of my feelings stem back from the fiasco NW had in DTW back in ’98 or ’99 during the big snow storm when they wouldn’t let passengers off of the planes for some ludicrous amount of hours.
Just lots of little things bug me about NW
Heia Norge!
 
keesje
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Thu Oct 30, 2003 10:36 pm

I think NWA is a very pragmatic airline.

they focus on low prices, good ff programs, low fleet cost, punctuality and not losing lugagge.

those things are more important then all kinds of fancy nonsense & it makes them succesfull.

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:13 pm

The new NWA branding is ingenious. At first, I didn't know what to think. Seemed a little too sophisticated. But now, it's grown on me. Even though I do not fly on the airline as much as I have in recent years, I sort of have a new found respect for the company. The airline has had its share of flaws in recent past, but so has every other airline. The history of NWA is incredible...so many pioneering routes to its credit...no one should wish ill will towards such an historic airline. Bravo Northwest.

...and on a personal note, thanks for replacing the MSY station manager.


Steve in New Orleans
 
mlsrar
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:21 pm

So, with UA I can, with a little careful picking of flights, spend most of my time on a nice 777, while on NW I get a 20+ year old DC10. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing DC10's in the air, but when it is my butt INSIDE the plan, I want comfort and a PTV.

UA Rarely sends internationally configured 777/767s to HNL or OGG. It's a waste of premium F/C services on generally low-yield traffic.

Just last week I flew a UA 762 in business class, and it did have swing-up type video monitor for watching whatever movie they had available

Then you weren't on a 762. The 762 C class seats are not equipped with any PTV. Their 762s have main-screen video. And, lets take AA's newly configured 763s...C class with NO PTV. (Then again, I'll agree with the comment about PTVs being overrated)

My wife had some frustrating experiences when we lived in the Detroit area with NW canceling flights for no apparent reason. I still believe the reason was due just a few passengers on the plane, and NW didn’t want to fly it back to Detroit.

In the past 36 months, I have been re-accommodated (strangely enough no NW who, upon finding out my NW elite status, and having been shifted from UA will move me up to F without much complaint) 14 times thanks to UA cancelling their MKE-ORD flights for "no apparent reason,"



I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
rb211
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:14 am

I think the corporate look is really nice. It's a shame there probably won't be a DC-10 sporting it. But for some reason I liked the look they had before the bowling shoe the best.
Airline photography. Whether they're fully clothed, butt naked, having issues or confused I'm taking pictures!!
 
flybynight
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:09 pm

Mlsrar - I guarantee you I was on a UA 767-200 ER. Flight 18 from SFO to JFK was a 767, 200 series. I believe most of the time it's a 767 (it has been most of the times I've flown on this flight).

KEESJE - I'm not bashing NW. If you look at my ticket example, UA's prices came in lower than NW. So the question is, why I fly NW when UA is cheaper?
Another example is NW's 742 that flies between SEA and NRT. As much as I love the 747, I'd rather be on a UA 777 for such a long flight due to the PTV's.
The kicker is, UA's best price is about $720, while NW's is $837.69. Why would I pay $100+ more for NW???? Maybe, just maybe if NW offered a better experience.
Not this frequent flier.
Heia Norge!
 
Guest

RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:49 pm

Flybynight,
I think it's unfair to say that NW's the worst network carrier. A lot has changed since 1998 -- AA and UA's international Business/First product isn't nearly as good, most airlines are beginning to charge for meals on all domestic flights, CO's fleet has went from the oldest to the youngest, TW hasn't been with us for a couple years, etc.

NW's WorldClubs at TW / KDTW), USA - Michigan">DTW, MSP and MEM are among the best in the country. TW / KDTW), USA - Michigan">DTW and MSP are among the best facilities to connect in the country. NW has turned into the most consumer-friendly network carrier. NW leads the majors in technology (they were the first to introduce on-line check-in -- now at 36-hours out, etc.). NW has refurbished the interiors of all its older aircraft, including DC-9, A320, B757 and B742. NW finished replacing its DC-10-40 fleet with DC-10-30. NW has introducted its new transoceanic product with the A330. The DC-10-30 and B742 are being phased out (over the next 18 months) from trasnoceanic service; the B744 is getting the new Business Class (the best of USA-flag carriers IMO) and will get the new economy when economics permit. The list goes on...

NW may have been the first airline to cut meal service on all flights except to the West Coast, but they provide a snack (granola bar/etc.) in the morning and offer a gerous meal policy upfront. DL/US/HP have (or will shortly) discontinue meals on ALL flights within the 48-states. AA/UA will begin testing meal service on select flights (UA will do so on several ORD/SFO flights -- NW still offers meal service on TW / KDTW), USA - Michigan">DTW/MSP-SFO).

IFE? I think it's hyped on here... not as many people care for it as some a.net users like to think. Nonetheless, IFE is only existant on a SMALL number of flights on OAL -- in fact, if one were to fly DL within the 48 states via any hub but ATL, I'd bet no more than a SINGLE percentage of those flights have IFE.

NW's product to Asia and Europe, BTW, is a couple steps above DL and slightly better than CO. CO/DL are the only two airlines not to offer sanitary napkins on the headrests -- maybe US, I haven't flown them. NW's DC-10 and B742 don't show their age, any several of both fleet types are younger than B763 AA/DL launch across the Atlantic. I actually flew on a DL flight in which the overhead bins were in different colors -- obviously, DL had changed a couple bins but didn't bother to get the colors to match.

NW's not the greatest airline, but there's many positives... it's certainly not the worst.

- from a very, very, very satisfied NWA elite who will be ending a 5+ year relationship with CO in 60-days.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Fri Oct 31, 2003 3:00 pm

You simply cannot compare the NW of the mid-late 90's to the NW of today.....

Surprisingly while most of the majors have gone downhill during this period, NW has actually improved its image and turned around many of the negative aspects from the NORTHWORST days

Helped to get rid of DasBurgerKing....now Mr. DHL and bring in Anderson
Brand new digs in DTW help improve the image, along with a whole boatload of new aircraft, and many more points mentioned above.
 
flybynight
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Fri Oct 31, 2003 3:04 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE - I hope you're right. I would love to see NW be an airline I would choose because they are supperior to fly.
Best of luck, NW!!
Heia Norge!
 
Guest

RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Fri Oct 31, 2003 3:07 pm

It's worth adding that UA flies a B777 with less than 200 seats SEA-NRT, but NW will be using a 450 seat ("beach market") B742 on select days... guess NW's not doing poorly in the market, despite UA's PTVs and First Class offering  Smile.
 
tekelberry
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RE: Nwa Northwest AIRLINES: Now You're Flying Smart

Fri Oct 31, 2003 4:12 pm

they focus on low prices, good ff programs, low fleet cost, punctuality and not losing lugagge.

Don't all airlines focus on these same issues?

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